priesthoodpower

When my wife left the church 6 yrs ago I wanted to share with everyone (family and ward members) how and why it happened. Why? so that we as a faith community can learn the tricks that satan uses on each and every one of us. I also wanted others to know that we all go through trials and Its ok to have trials, you are not being punished by the lord etc.
It wasnt long till I realized that the people that wanted to know why my wife was no longer attending church didnt really need to know, and the ones that do need to know are to afraid to ask. So I decided to join this forum and share my stories (anonymously) because chances are the ones that do need to know are actively searching for help and could find solace here.
Although we as the common members may never know the reasons behind disciplinary actions within our church, I do find comfort in knowing that our leaders are aware of the trials we face and are pleading with the Lord for solutions.

When my wife left the church 6 yrs ago I wanted to share with everyone (family and ward members) how and why it happened. Why? so that we as a faith community can learn the tricks that satan uses on each and every one of us. I also wanted others to know that we all go through trials and Its ok to have trials, you are not being punished by the lord etc.
It wasnt long till I realized that the people that wanted to know why my wife was no longer attending church didnt really need to know, and the ones that do need to know are to afraid to ask. So I decided to join this forum and share my stories (anonymously) because chances are the ones that do need to know are actively searching for help and could find solace here.
Although we as the common members may never know the reasons behind disciplinary actions within our church, I do find comfort in knowing that our leaders are aware of the trials we face and are pleading with the Lord for solutions.

Yes, forcing a righteous spouse to do anything is never ok.  But this is the problem with most marriages - when faced with a problem, the first reaction is always "What's gonna happen to me?" instead of "What's gonna happen to my spouse?".  It's like the promise of loving the spouse and helping them come closer to Christ only applies... until it doesn't.

All I know is that in my extended family, every single one of those who married "Brazillian" or other Latino "cultures" (race is irrelevant. It's culture we're talking here) are now happily (sarcasm) divorced. That's not an indictment of Latinos. From their perspective they could easily say, every one of their marriages to white Americans ended up in divorce.
Yes, I know that my limited experience with the world doesn't define reality. But I do think that what I've seen is exactly what @Vort is talking about. Marriage is hard, and any complications thrown into it make it harder. Cultural barriers are HUGE complications. Huge unnecessary complications. Yes, sometimes it works and sometimes it works really well. But its potentially fuel to a fire as likely as not to cause it to burn out of control.
I see two logical fallacies with your ideas: 1. Marriage into these cultures is required or even beneficial in bringing them into the gospel of Christ. As you said, any LDS chapel in the world you feel right at home in, even those with no inter-cultural marriages. 2. No success (no...not even bringing the gospel to others) can compensate for failure in the home.
The suggestion Vort is making is simply the same common sense as being careful to not marry a Democrat if your a Republican, being careful to not marry a sports fan if you hate sports, being careful to not marry someone who wants to decorate their house in pink if you can't stand pink, or being careful to not marry someone who eats rice every meal when you don't like rice. None of these are unquestionable deal-breakers in and of themselves, including culture ("race"). It is simply a factor that should be very carefully and prayerfully considered because the likelihood of cultural differences causing some level of complication beyond where a married couple has the same cultural traditions, thoughts, views, etc., is very high.

Playing devils advocate here -
There is only one race, human race. Love and unity cannot be taught it needs to be experienced. The more inter-culture, inter-religion, inter-everything happens the closer this world becomes to being what the Lord wants it to be.
 

This reminds me of something Dan Peterson said that I really like.
"Many years ago, while a graduate student in California, I heard the late Stanley B. Kimball (a Latter-day Saint scholar who taught at Southern Illinois University and published extensively on both European and Latter-day Saint historical subjects) speak to a small group about what he termed "the three levels of Mormon history." 

He called the first of these "level A." This level, he said, is the Junior Sunday School version of church history, in which Mormons always wear the white hats, nobody disagrees, no leader ever makes a mistake, and all is unambiguously clear. 

"Level B," he said, is the anti-Mormon version of church history—essentially a mirror image of level A or, alternatively, level A turned on its head. On level B, everything that you thought was good and true is actually false and bad. The Mormons (or, at least, their leaders) always or almost always wear black hats, and, to the extent that everything is unambiguously clear, Mormonism is unambiguously fraudulent, bogus, deceptive, and evil. Much in the level B version of Mormonism is simply false, of course; critics of the church have often failed to distinguish themselves for their honesty or for the care with which they've treated the issues they raise. But, in more than a few instances, level B approaches to Mormonism and its past are based on problems that are more or less real. 

The church, Kimball reflected, tends to teach level A history. The trouble with this is that, like someone who has been kept in a germ-free environment and is then exposed to an infectious disease, a person on level A who is exposed to any of the issues that are the fodder for level B will have little resistance and will be likely to fall. 

The only hope in such a case, he continued, is to press on to what he termed "level C," which is a version of church history that remains affirmative but which also takes into account any and all legitimate points stressed by level B. Those on level C are largely impervious to infection from level B. Level B formulations simply don't impress them.

Kimball said that he and his fellow historians operate on level C, and that, on the whole, that's where he (as a professional historian) would prefer members to be. He was deeply convinced, he said, that level C was essentially like level A, except that it is more nuanced and somewhat more ambiguous. (He emphatically denied that level A is "false," or that the church "lies" in teaching it.) He acknowledged, though, that, were he himself a high-ranking church leader, he would be hesitant to take the membership as a whole to level C by means of church curriculum and instruction for the obvious reason that moving people from level A to level C entails at least some exposure to some of the elements of level B, and that such exposure will unavoidably lead some to lose their testimonies. Still, he felt that those who make it through to level C are more stable and resilient in their faith than those who remain on level A."

I've always grappled with the worst of the worst.  I'm just melodramatic that way.  GA and 1st quorum of the seventy member George P. Lee always tops my list.  Excommunicated for "apostasy and other conduct unbecoming a member of the Church."  Convicted of sexually molesting a child.   I mean, our church is remarkably free of taints like this, but you can find exceptions here and there.  Stake President Clayton Hildreth, convicted of hopping state lines to have sex with a minor.  A Bishop here and there.  In 20 years of paying attention, I've only gathered a tiny handful of such stories.  I'll gladly compare our church's track record against any other organization or demographic.  But yes indeed, we don't become perfect and lose our natural man just because we accept a calling, even a senior leadership calling.
 

Amen! There is truth everywhere in this world, as President Hinkley said "Bring your truths and lets see if we (LDS) can add to it". Same-sex is a sin but other cultural shifts are happening faster in the world due to easily accessible information spread through the internet. I dont subscribe to the notion of living in "perilous times" rather we live in a time where truth is being uncovered.
Current and future generations of LDS are growing up in a social environment surrounded by influences that are allowing them to broaden their understanding of all the spiritual truths that exist on earth. Add that to the solid foundation of the true gospel as found in the LDS church and many many lives will be blessed.

I am in your corner 100% but may I offer my perspective about having a child?
1) Growth. Whether you adopt or have one of your own, you may never experience what a mother/father experiences. You may never get the full picture in understanding what your mom and dad went through to raise you. When I got married I had some resentment toward my parents that stemmed from my childhood, I said to myself I will never be the bum that my father was, every year that passed in my marriage and having our own kids I realized that my dad was not that bad of a guy after all. Now 15yrs into my marriage and I love that guy with all my heart, no more resentments or judgements toward him. Why? because all the crap that me and my siblings put him through, my kids and wife are doing the same to me. lol
2) There is power in numbers. We are blessed in the LDS church to be organized into local wards where as a small community we can vibrate spiritually together on heavenly frequency's during our prayer and worship, the ward is our family. However, in a more intimate setting, the walls within your own home there is opportunity to share spiritual energy with those you are biologically/emotionally/intimately attached to, this becomes even more powerful. I can relate two experiences in the past 2 years where I should have been seriously hurt or even dead in an accident. What saved me and prevented me from even getting a scratch in both situations was specifically the prayers of my 3 little children and wife, it would be too long to explain but trust me on that.
My life journey may not be the same as yours or anyone else. Just thought Id share.

Unfortunately, I think this may be a product of the modern world.  If you have a bad kid people look at you like your a bad parent; if your spouse is not at church sometimes people think there is something you are doing wrong.
Loving someone, demonstrating kindness, etc. may help someone come back to church-but that shouldn't be why we do it.  Disciplining a child because they hit their sibling may help them to learn not to hit, but that shouldn't be why we do it.  We do these things b/c they are the right things to do regardless of whether the outcome is the desired outcome.
Human beings are not rats, if I do this or if I do that, if I say this or if I say that then this person would be obedient, then this person would come back to church. We all have the ability to choose what we want in life and an essential part of being a parent and in being a spouse is understanding that we can't control the individual we love.
We do the right things not b/c we want them to change their behavior, but simply because they are the right things to do.  I guess this is a long way of saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. If we all realized this life would be much better.

AGmom hang in there, im in a similar situation, my wife left the church completely about 6 years ago. The first few years were hard but im slowly realizing that I need to change my perspective on the situation. The problem is that I see her as someone who rejected the church and because the church means a lot to me she therefore rejects me. I guess I got too much pride.
I thought about what would happen if we got divorced, what if I fell in love with another woman who was not religious? I would not have any type of religious expectations of her and I would just simply love her for who she is. That is the perspective that I am trying to gain with my wife, its hard but its what Christ would do.
One thing that does not help is attending church every sunday and the members wondering where my wife is. The looks on peoples faces and some of the conversations I have with ward friends and leaders is that they care so much for her welfare that we must be doing something wrong. That is when church feels like its a toxic environment when people cannot use their Christ eyes and Christ mouths.

AGmom hang in there, im in a similar situation, my wife left the church completely about 6 years ago. The first few years were hard but im slowly realizing that I need to change my perspective on the situation. The problem is that I see her as someone who rejected the church and because the church means a lot to me she therefore rejects me. I guess I got too much pride.
I thought about what would happen if we got divorced, what if I fell in love with another woman who was not religious? I would not have any type of religious expectations of her and I would just simply love her for who she is. That is the perspective that I am trying to gain with my wife, its hard but its what Christ would do.
One thing that does not help is attending church every sunday and the members wondering where my wife is. The looks on peoples faces and some of the conversations I have with ward friends and leaders is that they care so much for her welfare that we must be doing something wrong. That is when church feels like its a toxic environment when people cannot use their Christ eyes and Christ mouths.

This would be incorrect. A testimony is what we have learned through our faith, or a declaration of what an individual has come to know. I believe @The Folk Prophet has shared proper distinctions between faith and testimony.
Laman and Lemuel could bear testimony of an angel visiting them, yet they did not have the faith to exercise, as did Nephi, regarding the words of the angel regarding Laban. Nephi had faith and testimony. Laman and Lemuel could only testify, as they did not have the faith and were not faithful.

Im sorry Rob but that is your own opinion and like many have mentioned earlier...its more complicated than that.
There is also a loophole in your observations. I have two younger brothers and a Father who love the church with all the fibers in their beings, they did not leave the church, they proudly call themselves mormons but they are not active in church. My Father, who is single, is a womanizer. My brother is a meth addict the other one is a violent person that just completed a 5 yr prison term. All 3 of them have "NO DOUBT" that the LDS church is the one and only true church on earth, their only problem is that they have alternative lifestyles. Their disobedience has not caused a lack of faith or created doubt or caused them to leave the church, they are simply exercising their free agency.

FWIW, I was an atheist for the majority of my life. After my conversion to Catholicism, I had a fear that I would revert to atheism. My "antidote" was prayer. I prayed often for Jesus to keep me with Him, and the answer is abide in Him. After a few years, that fear left me, I never feel that way now. In faith, I found confidence that God keeps me with Him, through thick and thin, and all the mistakes I make and things I do, or fail do to do. 
It is a choice, but the world is full of compelling reasons to not abide in Him. Full of people who focus on the sin and mistakes of others, and not on showing genuine love for the person, with respect for the dignity in which God has made them. Which includes the gift of rational thinking and free will.
I see many people come into the Catholic Church, I see many of them don't stick around. Someone recently asked me if I make a guess, in my mind, of who will come and who will go. No, is my answer to that. God is with them, no matter where their journey takes them, and I pray their path leads them to the love of God. My prayer now, is that God keeps all the faithful with Him...that includes you.

Im so glad I read this post. Now I know that if I ever fall away from the church its because I fell away!

Im so glad I read this post. Now I know that if I ever fall away from the church its because I fell away!

Im so glad I read this post. Now I know that if I ever fall away from the church its because I fell away!

Im so glad I read this post. Now I know that if I ever fall away from the church its because I fell away!

To me, that is oversimplification. Members can go from 100% in, relatively speaking, to something far less. Your tautology doesn't account for this.
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I teach youth sunday school and my solution for the phones is this.
"Ok class Its amazing how beneficial technology and cell phones are in our lives, if you are playing a game please concentrate harder to beat that level, If you are watching a sports game I hope your team wins etc..I put a couple of chairs out in the hall way so feel free to go their and continue your cell phone usage. While you are in this class you can only use your phone for the lesson".
This works pretty well.

I did not watch the video, however, I will say that many people find supposed connections to concepts of salvation from sin, and saviors, and other aspects of Christianity.  However, the connections they make based on pre-Christian era doctrines and concepts are actually all descended from apostatized truth.  Remember that the gospel was taught in it's fullness to Adam, and he was baptized.  From there, eventually it fell and was degenerated by various civilizations until even the Israelites were not sufficiently prepared to receive it.  If the true principles of what is now known as Christianity existed from the beginning, and then were jumbled up through apostasy, some here, some there, then it would be expected that researchers could find evidence of these things.  If an uninspired researcher finds pieces of information, are they going to conclude that Christianity must be true because its concepts go back so far, or will they assume it must be a made up mixture of other religious views that came before it?  With that in mind it doesn't bother me in the slightest what the world thinks of the origins of Christianity.

Well, sure; if you throw out the accounts of all the people who say they've seen Him, there's no real "evidence" that Yeshua-bin-Yosef ever existed ... :roll eyes:
Generally speaking, we could probably stand to become more sophisticated consumers of the New Testament.  Deseret Book has some nice titles that engage modern secular scholarship reasonably well--Jesus Christ and the World of the New Testament is a great start, and lavishly illustrated to boot.  There's also a great three-volume series on Jesus' ministry edited by Richard Holzapfel, among others.  And BYU is undertaking a multi-volume New Testament commentary that sounds quite promising.
Are there inconsistencies and textual variants and problems with some of the New Testament as we know it?  Absolutely; and I have no problem with modern scholarship exploring those.  But it takes a special kind of a chucklehead to try to say that any individual to whom ancient texts attributed extraordinary deeds, actually never lived at all.  You'll notice that no one seriously makes those sorts of absolutist arguments about--say--Mohammed, or Siddhartha Gautama, or Confucius, or Gilgamesh, or Sennacherib.  It's only Jesus of Nazareth, we are told, for whom the "historical evidence" seems especially dodgy.

I'm not going to bother with the video but may I suggest that you counter 'research' that questions Christ/Christianity with other research that reaffirms it. There's a movie out now called "The Case for Christ" or you can read the book of the same title.  My library also has a book by David Limbaugh "Jesus on Trial: A Lawyer Affirms the Truth of the Gospel". These are just a couple options and I haven't watched or read them (yet) but you may want to consider doing so yourself.

Thats some of worst research and hateful propaganda Ive ever seen. If one can believe that or lose faith over that video I would certainly immediately seek out Heavenly Father in prayer and ask for the blindfold to be removed. Watching parts of that video and it was easily discerned that the spirit of Satan is influencing its makers.