laronius

I think this is a great point. While prophetic counsel is still critical the need to be directed by the Spirit is perhaps greater now than ever before. As has been pointed out, new doctrine is rare, and with the internet we have access to 187 years worth of scripture and prophetic commentary available to us. I think where we are really falling short, and I include myself in this, is our willingness to do what it takes to draw down the powers and personal revelations from heaven. In the days ahead this will become critical to our spiritual survival and all the meetings in the world can't fix this. I've sat through all sessions of GC before and got very little out of it because I was distracted and just not in tune to the Spirit as I should have been. I've also received great insight in 5 minute talks given by a youth. Just imagine how many problems would be solved in the lives of members if getting the Spirit became a top priority. If that were the case I think we would be approaching the fulfillment of Moses' expressed desire "would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!" Num 11:29.

Contrary to what some believe when they hear about our three hour church block and all the sessions of General Conference, meetings are not the work of the Church. And they aren't the only thing being reduced either. Handbooks, lesson manuals, temple rec interviews (now only every two years), and perhaps other things. Meanwhile the opportunities to act,  as @zil has pointed out, has increased. Temples, access to family history work, internet for sharing the gospel. I think the message is clear as to where the Lord wants us to spend out time.

I guess I don't understand why it has to be an either or. Why can't it be a future eternal state as well as a literal placement in the universe? I do think that the scriptures make it pretty clear though that once a person dies there is no more "work" they can do to prepare for judgment. This of course doesn't mean that progression ceases, simply that at that point we are judged according the light we had in this life (though I have a feeling our premortal lives factor in as well). I don't think that all progression has to take place in this sphere. Indeed Christ progressed to the level of being a God before coming to this earth. Likewise Abraham and perhaps others have already entered into their glory. We also know there is a spirit prison and a spirit paradise that all spirits go to upon death. So I guess these are places where a prejudgment has taken place and yet conformity to law has not been completely accomplished.

I loved the part about biological cloaking devices! Too funny.

I rarely like these magazine style articles much, let alone enough to recommend them (they usually seem to be fluff or "yeah, that's nice"), but this one is worth recommending. (Though I don't much care for the "blow their cover" recommendation at the end, the rest is excellent.)
https://ldsmag.com/spiritual-secret-ops-agents-is-your-neighbor-one-are-you/

So now we are finally getting to the truth about @Grunt. He wants a church that worships both Christ and green jello with carrots. I think its a match made in heaven (no pun intended).

Shredded carrots in green jello that is.

Oh, I don't know. I'm not a big fan of my Bishop. I'm not going to drag him down, I just don't like him. But if it means not getting saddled up with his job, he's a great guy! Love him! GO BISH! 

Amen @prisonchaplain. That's the nail on the head. We need to remember that bishops (and all of us really) are called in their weakness. They often have a day job, family concerns and other issues to deal with like the rest of us, except they are also called to help shoulder the burdens of everyone else in the ward. If anyone deserves our patience and prayers it's our bishops. In those rare instances where great concern is raised by the conduct of a bishop there is a chain of authority that we can follow up to have our concerns addressed. And I will state emphatically that the Lord will NOT allow any unjust judgements to take place at the last day. In fact a "fair judgment" should scare us to death. Mercy is what we want and the Lord has basically said he will grant the same mercy to us as we do to our fellow man (and that includes our bishops).

Amen @prisonchaplain. That's the nail on the head. We need to remember that bishops (and all of us really) are called in their weakness. They often have a day job, family concerns and other issues to deal with like the rest of us, except they are also called to help shoulder the burdens of everyone else in the ward. If anyone deserves our patience and prayers it's our bishops. In those rare instances where great concern is raised by the conduct of a bishop there is a chain of authority that we can follow up to have our concerns addressed. And I will state emphatically that the Lord will NOT allow any unjust judgements to take place at the last day. In fact a "fair judgment" should scare us to death. Mercy is what we want and the Lord has basically said he will grant the same mercy to us as we do to our fellow man (and that includes our bishops).

Aren't bishops understood to offer spiritual counsel, as led by the Holy Spirit? In other words, members generally know that bishops are not trained in counseling, psychology, or even speech. Leadership are said to feel led by the Holy Spirit to make the spiritual selection of bishops, and these bishops are expected to by likewise led, as they offer spiritual direction.
FYI: Even clergy these days are reticent to offer pastoral or spiritual "counseling." Instead, it gets called "soulcare," or some other purely spiritual word, since some states have allowed for aggressive litigation against churches who offer counseling deemed negligent. I heard of one church that had to spend $30K in legal fees to defend against a lawsuit brought by the family of one who died by suicide. The deceased had gone to the church for counseling one time, and had seen professional counseling, at government expense, for years. Yet, the church was the easy target.  The church won, but it sure didn't feel very victorious.

I assume my state of opposition is the generalization of "many" and "too often" toward bishops.  Yes, there are cases where members are kind, seeking to be meek and humble, trying to be understood and their bishop/stake president doesn't respond very kindly. There are just as many cases, if not more, where the bishop is being kind, meek, honoring the Lord and his prophets through Handbook guidance, and the members take them wrong. I would venture to say, less than 5% of ALL the one-on-one meetings bishops have with members do not end well.  Out of the 50 or more interviews in a month, only 1-3 didn't go as well as both thought it would.
So, we would have disagreement regarding this being a problem; however, would additional training and insight on communication skills be beneficial. Sure, we all could use better social and communication skills. In some cases, I can also see members being more judgemental toward a bishop knowing what training he has received. I can hear the gossip wheel now, "Oh my, you know bishop said this! Yes, he did! AND he even had training on how to be a good communicator."
This is why I shared as my last statement, "What would be nice is if we all exercised more faith, hope, and charity toward those who serve us and those we serve."
 
 
 

There are other things in coffee and tea that make them unhealthy but at the end of the day stimulants like caffeine are basically an attempt to cover up the deficiency of the needed nutrients we aren't feeding our bodies or the sleep we are not getting (though there are practical medical uses for caffeine). I think if we started to focus more of our attention on the "do's" of the WoW we would find much less need to worry about the "don'ts."

So now we are finally getting to the truth about @Grunt. He wants a church that worships both Christ and green jello with carrots. I think its a match made in heaven (no pun intended).

I believe the resolution is found in Alma 32:27-43. If I plant a seed which then grows up to perfection and becomes a fruit-bearing tree, I cannot logically say that I earned that perfection, even though attainment of that perfection (i.e. fruit) requires nurturing on my part.
We each have within us the seed of godliness. Perfection consist of becoming a fruit-bearing tree of life, even as our Heavenly Father, or as Paul describes it: attaining the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. Such perfection cannot logically be described as "earned," though it does require nurturing on our part.
More to the point, since, as Elder Nelson points out, salvation is an individual matter, whereas exaltation is a family matter, when parents exercise their procreative powers, and conceive and raise their children, hopefully to be an eternal family, they haven't earned the children, or the mature adults they have or may become, though considerable effort is required on their part.
It is the difference between acquiring things (such as knowledge and education), which, in a sense, can be earned, versus becoming something, which isn't earned, but requires human effort nevertheless.
This is, in part, why, in the process of revealing a mystery of the kingdom,  Elder Oaks has said:
"Attaining what the Apostle Paul described as “the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ” (Ephesians 4:13) requires far more than acquiring knowledge. It is not even enough for us to be convinced of the gospel; we must act and think so that we are converted by it. In contrast to the institutions of the world, which teach us to know something, the plan of salvation and the gospel of Jesus Christ challenge us to become something." (see HERE)
Does this help?
Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So now we are finally getting to the truth about @Grunt. He wants a church that worships both Christ and green jello with carrots. I think its a match made in heaven (no pun intended).

So now we are finally getting to the truth about @Grunt. He wants a church that worships both Christ and green jello with carrots. I think its a match made in heaven (no pun intended).

So now we are finally getting to the truth about @Grunt. He wants a church that worships both Christ and green jello with carrots. I think its a match made in heaven (no pun intended).

I thought about vetting the presentation here, but since it's official government work, did not want put it in the public domain. There are no LDS chaplains in the federal system...which ought to be encouraging--not enough inmates to justify one in any given location.   I did include the oft-repeated Christocentric line about Jesus being so central to the church's belief that He's prominent in the official name.   

What?  Where have you been all my life!

Shredded carrots in green jello that is.

I think these scriptures are helpful too in understanding exactly how the grace of God works in our lives.
Ether 12:27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.
I think the wording here is crucial. God's grace isn't earned rather what is being said is that God's grace is not "sufficient" unless we humble ourselves or in other words submit our wills to him. The reason for this is that grace's role is not to simply change your status from unsaved to saved but to strengthen us in those areas of our lives where we are spiritually weak. Becoming stronger spiritually then allows us to do more good, to more fully keep all of God's commandments. But a proud person is not willing to conform to God's laws therefore strengthening him through grace would not be sufficient to save him because he simply would not change even with the increased ability to do better. So for grace to save us we must be willing to humble ourselves, have faith in God and then act in greater obedience when his enabling power of the atonement comes upon us.
The last counsel Moroni gives before hiding up the plates was on this same topic.
Moroni 10:32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
I don't think Moroni is saying we must deny ourselves of all ungodliness before receiving of God's grace, rather that once we come unto Christ, through humility and faith, we have access to his grace, through which we will have the power to deny ourselves of all ungodliness and ultimately become sanctified in Christ and eventually perfected. But grace only makes it possible and that is the gift, the gift of potential. The rest is a matter of us simply (though not easily) achieving that potential. Or as Paul put it:
Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

I think this philosophy is important for multiple reasons. First of all, there is no wilderness for us to escape into. Both in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and even in our modern LDS Church history when the righteous were persecuted they simply fled into a new land. That isn't possible anymore. So we have to make the best out of the situation we are in. Secondly, the evil in the world is so vocal that many good people don't dare to speak out because they feel they are in the minority while in many instances that is not the case. They simply need someone to rally around, whether it is on the national level or on their local PTA board. We cannot afford to relegate ourselves to the silent majority status. Thirdly, as the world grows darker we need to continue to hold up our light for people to see. As society becomes more polarized those who have remained on the sidelines will be forced to "take sides" and we need to be out in the open showcasing the virtues of our beliefs to help them make the right decision.

I think this philosophy is important for multiple reasons. First of all, there is no wilderness for us to escape into. Both in the Bible and the Book of Mormon and even in our modern LDS Church history when the righteous were persecuted they simply fled into a new land. That isn't possible anymore. So we have to make the best out of the situation we are in. Secondly, the evil in the world is so vocal that many good people don't dare to speak out because they feel they are in the minority while in many instances that is not the case. They simply need someone to rally around, whether it is on the national level or on their local PTA board. We cannot afford to relegate ourselves to the silent majority status. Thirdly, as the world grows darker we need to continue to hold up our light for people to see. As society becomes more polarized those who have remained on the sidelines will be forced to "take sides" and we need to be out in the open showcasing the virtues of our beliefs to help them make the right decision.

Thanks so much Im learning a lot on this subject and putting together a powerpoint to teach my kids during FHE.