JohnsonJones

This conversation sounds pretty bizarre. I suppose this may be how it feels when non-members listen to LDS members discuss very Mormony topics at times.

True, I wasn't trying to justify celebrities either, just come up with a reason why people may listen to them rather than a doctor. Obviously I still go to my doctors, but sometimes I wonder if I would be better trying to find the answers to some of my aches and pains (never get old...you get pain where you never thought you would) on my own.

I had a doctor once that when I asked him a question on things that he didn't know the answer to, he went to his electronic medical encyclopedia and typed things in to look them up. The only difference between him and other doctors I expect is that he was blatantly open about it, whereas I think others may say... "I need to consult some materials and think about this and will get back with you, can you come back in a week if this medication doesn't work or you don't see an improvement" Type statement. Eventually, beyond just your normal everyday pains and aches, you start to get the idea as you get older that your doctor may know some things...but on other things they are just as much in the dark as you. When they order tests and such, that's when they start to really get an idea (and where their education can help out beyond normal folks) when they get results from those test, but prior to that, sometimes they are shooting in the dark. At least, from what I've seen occasionally. Even if you come right out and tell them your problem sometimes, it's like they didn't even hear you.

Okay, I understand the Magic part (it's a collectible card game some kids play), but the rest of your statement might as well be gibberish for all I understood on what you wrote there. LOL.

I'm not certain of the conversation (was this a conversation you had with someone?), but ΔHf = V+1/2B+IEM+EAX+UL but Why that led to the conversation as it did, I do not know, and in fact, in regards to enthalpy it is only used in purely ionic compounds in regards to lattice enthalpy specifically. This really doesn't have much to do with Thermodynamics per se, unless you are a chemist. If one is wearing the shirt, I'd imagine it is dealing with one who is a physicist, in which case they probably have no idea why you'd be asking about the Born-Haber cycle in relation to Thermodynamics, UNLESS you were asking in regards to entropy vs. energy...etc...etc...etc. By the way, I'm not a physicist, I'm a historian. I did NOT get an A in chemistry all those years ago when I took it. As I said, I don't get the post above...is it supposed to be a joke, or is this an incident that happened? Sorry, it probably went over my head.

There are people that are super serious about Monopoly!? I really enjoy boardgames and collect some, but I don't get really serious about them. Well, I suppose at one point I did play chess somewhat competitively (was on the chess team decades ago in High School. At the time, chess teams were almost like another sports team...don't know if that still goes on today, but my impression is that it does not), so I suppose I could understand it from that viewpoint. I'm not sure I'd classify D&D as the greatest game ever. I might list that as chess or maybe for those from the East, Go (which I think is a form of Chinese Chess, but vastly different than the chess we play or think about in the US normally).

And now, I can release the punchline. Well, not so much a punchline, but that I was leading you on...in a weird humor sort of way. I found out far more than Jack Chick's tracts. They don't really represent the D&D gamers at all, and are basically seen as a bad joke these days. I actually found out that many seem to find humor in them though. I know all D&D really is, is sort of like the make believe that we used to do as kids, but with rules. Sort of like when I played Cowboys and Indians (actually, it was normally just Cowboys and Cowboys since no one wanted to play the Indians unless it was a little brother who we coerced into doing so) when we were younger, but with rules and such that make it so that we can't have the disagreements of things like...I shot you...no you didn't...etc. It's also tends to be cooperative, and takes place in a fantasy setting. It's not taken literally or that seriously by the players, and they play it just like we would play any other game (though there are some that are far more serious about it than others, it being more of a serious hobby for them, than just another boardgame). See...I know a little about your hobby now. Obviously not everything, but somewhat about it.

More seriously though, there is some truth and some falsity. In regards to Masturbation, the LDS church is growing to be more singular in it's approach to it. It is true, scripturally, there really is NO basis in the church's standing. If we take a secular look, it started with a craze from the 19th century and quack science. That quackery grew into something accepted in many religions of the time. However, that medical quackery had no substance that is actually found in the Bible. However, we, as LDS, believe that it is tampering with the laws of chastity and things that should be held sacred. On the otherhand, Pornography is something almost every Christian religion has been against. Pornography has been around in some form for thousands of years, and during that time, Christianity has always been against it. This is something that is very much within our American heritage (due to the Christian background, even today, many nations in Europe consider Americans very puritanical...even with how much more lax we've become in that arena). It finds it's root in Matthew 5:28 where the Lord states If one is looking at pornography, it is almost definite that they have certain emotions in his heart. If one is masturbating, many times that same thing can also be stated in addition to the act that they are doing. So, I would actually contest the view that pornography is considered a normal and healthy thing in our society today. I think many have tried to create that illusion, but I think there are MANY in the US that would disagree with that assessment, that in fact, pornography is a terrible thing that plagues our society today. I think LDS may actually take a lesser stance against it (despite what some think, the LDS church thus far, hasn't overly aggressively punished those who have committed this sin, at least as much as some may think it does). There are other Christians that take this FAR more seriously than even the LDS church. I think every evangelical Christian religion, and most of the others do NOT view Pornography as normal or healthy.

I've done some research on this since you guys talked about this stuff some weeks ago. There's this tract by this guy called Jack Chick or something. Is it true that you believe you have actual powers the same as your characters. Was his story on Black Leaf based on a real life event. What a tragic story. What level are you up to? How does casting spells work and can you really justify that with being LDS? Kind of a weird hobby, feels almost like mysticism and evil. How many kill themselves each year when their characters die? Do you guys really wear cloaks and such in really weird ceremonies? Did you cry for Black Leaf?

Normally at the bigger competitions (or almost always at the county fair and state fair) if you win a ribbon you'll be able to sell right there at the fair to someone. It's normally been fairly easy on that front for our 4-h kids around our area. I suppose you could try the local plants or processing yards perhaps...not sure with chickens though, my experience was more with cattle.

I looked it up just to make sure I remembered right. The SLC Tribune has a long tradition of being a little antagonistic to the church. It's founding was originally be individuals were were excommunicated/former members of the LDS church. They were not exactly happy with many of the doings of the LDS church. The paper has continued much of this tradition throughout the decades (and over a century) of it's printing. Obviously it employs members of the LDS church at times, and so it's antagonism at times is muted, but at other times it is quite prevalent. A reading of the comments section of the SLC Trib online at times have brought out some of the most vile commentary you'll ever read in relation to the LDS church. In some ways, it is also the readership the continues this tradition. In some ways having opposite points of view can be useful (which is probably part of the historian in me coming out). That way you don't see it from one extreme or the other (and I feel you are correct, the Tribune tends to lean more liberal than other media from Utah at times, which provides an acutely needed counterpoint to the happenings in Utah). I tend to read the news from two or three different sources normally to try to get a more full view of the story and what actually occurred if possible. Hence, I have read the SLC tribune often after reading the same story elsewhere. From what I've read recently, it appears it was purchased by the Huntsman family, or they were seeking to purchase it. I don't think that has affected the readership thus far, but perhaps over time it may affect how certain stories are written.

I don't know how all of them do it, but I LOVE how some of the Baptist talk about being called. Many Baptists, unlike the Mormons, believe the LORD directly leads the congregation and the calling of leaders, rather than leaving it via men. Therefore, when you are called to the work, the LORD calls you to the work. They can feel it in their hearts and they are called to Preach the gospel. This is why they have so many independent churches, all of which they feel is possible to be directly led by the Lord, rather than of men. They can be united in some groups (for example, the Southern Baptist Convention), but each leader is supposed to have a direct relationship with the Lord. They have a similar idea of repentance and salvation, where it is the Lord who directly touches your heart and changes it, so that you follow him and your desire to sin ceases. So, to contrast, in the LDS teaching, the Lord inspires our leaders to call those who going to serve via revelation. In the Baptist religion, from what I understand, the Lord calls the individual directly, no other individual is needed. This means there is a more orderly hierarchy/leadership chain in the LDS church where in the Baptist religion it is more composed of independent churches. I can't say I believe in the Baptist religion or theology, but it is an interesting theology from what I understand. It isn't just the LDS that believe in inspiration from heaven, I think the Baptist (and probably some other religions) have a deep belief in very similar things.

Kolob? How vast is the planet? I do not know the answer to all things. In regards to Abraham's translation, we do not know exactly how it was translated. It could be that a single symbol in the manuscript has double or triple meanings. One that the world understands, and another which may be far more lengthy in regards to what prophets understand.

Just_A_Guy covers what I've heard and it makes sense. In today's age where I've also heard one could simply download it, I personally do not know why it isn't available to the general church public. They already have handbook 2 out there (which is basically the same idea). The other thing I've seen, though this is more personal opinion, is that some people when they utilize handbook 2 and would with handbook 1, is to see it more as doctrine or something akin to doctrine rather than guidelines for leaders. They see the handbooks as something that the church is supposed to follow like the Four Standard works. Unfortunately, this is something that is ingrained in some individuals as they see it at other places where handbooks of instructions (Such as their workplace) are in use. It is to avoid this appearance that the handbooks are the doctrine that we follow in the church, and it is in truth, the Scriptures and the guidance of the General Authorities that dictate what we do and how we live our lives. In my opinion...

So, if I understand you right, you feel as if you missed out on things because you got married young and then had children at a young age as well, but never participated in what the world sometimes calls...fun. It's been a while, and they do hit upon this in Young Single Adults which you missed, but it sounds almost like you are experiencing temptation from what we would call peer pressure. It may not be the same peer pressure that you have from friends asking you to do things, but the type of peer pressure where you see things of the world and how they portray it as fun for young people...and you say...gosh...that looks fun. I sure think I missed out by not doing that. This is just another form of temptation. I've been unfortunate (though some wouldn't see as such, it really is to me) to serve in leadership positions where I've had people confess things to me. It is never fun. It is never enjoyable. As much as people say it, in this situation there really is basically two kinds of people. The first have no regrets. They have no desire to repent. They tasted of the world and loved it. They want to continue doing this. They normally either stop coming to church (which is the most typical thing that occurs), or even worse get excommunicated or ask for their names to be removed. This is a very sad situation when it happens. The second are remorseful. They literally wish they had NEVER DONE THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE. They regret that they fell into temptation. If they could tell you one thing, it probably would be...DON'T DO IT. Stop wondering about it while you are ahead. No matter how fun it may appear, no matter how much you think you missed out...DON'T DO IT. It is not worth it. The painful road to recovery, the painful memories and how it has impacted their lives is something that they would well have wanted to do without. If the entire world decided it was cool to point a gun to their head and pull the trigger...would you do it. The result if it was loaded being that you would seriously be injured. The rest of your life you would bear the scars, even if it didn't kill you. The rest of the world says it's absolutely fun, the thrill is something you can never experience if you don't try it at least once. You see how cool it is in TV, movies, and every other form of media. 90% of the rest of the world, and even 20% of Mormons have done this. Would you therefore want to put a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger? Even if you survive, you still would have the scars for the rest of your life. Something there would remind you of what you did in your past. Now, the lord would restore all that was lost. In the next life, it would be as if it never occurred, but in this life, there still will be reminders of what happened. What you are proposing in some ways is to do that spiritually. You have seen how fun it seems from TV and media and other sources to get that spiritual gun and point it at your head. This is what peer pressure, or the temptation of the world can do to a person. A normal LDS saint will say...What are you thinking! Do you realize the harm you can do to yourself? It seems crazy, and yet, that's the type of spiritual temptation which may lead to spiritual suicide is doing. Instead of analyzing your life from the world's perspective, look at it from reality. Hopefully you have a good marriage with children. Take joy in the children and your family and realize...that's what is really important. You got to experience something that others are actually envious of most likely. I will share one story of two daughters. There was the older one and the younger one. The older daughter was VERY talented. She had a great ability on the Violin, made straight A's in school, and got a full ride scholarship. The Younger daughter was very jealous of the older daughter. She thought the older daughter was blessed with everything. That everyone loved the older daughter, and that the older daughter was so talented that she was able to do all these things that the younger daughter could never dream of. The older sister had a ton of praise from the world. However, the secret was that the older daughter was actually jealous of the younger daughter. The Younger daughter got married very soon after graduating high school to her recently returned missionary sweetheart. She could not understand her older sister's reaction in some ways. The Older sister had felt isolated at times from friends and others. All her friends were gathered from those who hung around with her younger sister. Her younger sister was considered very beautiful and charismatic, and while the older sister was not married, the younger sister got married rather quickly. She then had children. The Older daughter knew the importance of family and children, and wished that she could have the blessings the younger sister had. She didn't get married until she was near 25 (which is actually still young in today's standards), but was jealous of her sister's blessings. It was irony that both were jealous of the other. They both had blessings that they each could enjoy. Rather than listen to their father that they were both loved tremendously and each were blessed of the Lord in their own way, they took to looking at the other one's life and feeling that they were lacking in something. They should have realized the blessings they had in being righteous and following the Lord, and enjoy the things that he blessed them with, instead of looking at things that they didn't have and wanting that instead. Today, (I hope at least) it appears they've made peace and realized that they both were very blessed in their lives. It took a while though, and their jealousy was something that if they had shed it and learned to enjoy what the Lord had blessed them with, they could have avoided years of jealousy, pain, and at times, harsh treatment of each other. All that envy and coveting is wasted time. How much better to enjoy what you have now, and the great blessings you enjoy. It is a blessing to be pure, it is something that very few in this world can actually enjoy. It is something much more special than all that alcohol, gambling, or any other detriments that may tempt you. Remain clean, and learn to love the blessings that you have been given rather than fall to the temptations of the world that give the illusion of fun, but in reality will only attempt to destroy the blessings you have now.

Actually, it was 23% which is better than many elections on various levels in the US in general. We are going to disagree on this my friend and I can see this is going to go nowhere. I'm with them in their desire for statehood. You aren't. It's that simple. I think they deserve recognition and the ability to vote for the President (which, I expect Trump will strongly NOT want as he is not exactly very popular in P.R. at the moment due to some of his statements and actions). You do not. We could go back and forth and back and forth on this, but I know you never change your positions, and I'm not going to change mine on this so, let's end this amicably and agree that on this, we are going to disagree.

What do you mean by being naughty? And why would you want to ditch the Molly Mormon identity? You might not see this, but Molly Mormons are actually rather unique and special. Outside of the LDS church, those who are "naughty" are a dime a dozen...in fact, more like a thousand a penny. Is it a desire to be just like everyone else that is miserable in the US and the rest of the world today? Remember, the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence, but normally, it's either the same grass or worse (normally, in farmland bordering wilderness, the grass on the otherside of the fence may actually be worse or even harmful). There are some in the church that do not realize how unique being good really is, or how being righteous actually makes someone truly stand out and is a very special quality in relation to what the world is like now. So many think that they are all alike if they are good, but that is not true, something they find out many times to their great sorry. More times than not, it's more that they say they are similar to others, but in reality just want to be like the rest of the world, that thousand per penny individuals that are "naughty" and disobey the commands of the lord flagrantly. that said How naughty are you talking about? Playing games and stuff on the Sabbath? Watching bad movies? Drinking coffee, smoking cigarettes, or that like? Breaking the law of chastity? Robbing a bank? Going on a murdering spree? Some are far worse than others. Most of them lead to deep sorrow later, and disappointment that they wanted to follow the world rather than what they knew was right. A few may not, but many of those bring a sense of being part of the world, but then guilt and sadness for multiple reasons. They realize just how special and unique they were previously, and they destroyed that. They realize that what they thought would be fun, actually may have seemed fun at the time, but destroyed a lot of long lasting happiness and in some cases, even lost some freedom they took for granted. When you say naughty...what exactly do you mean by that and why do you think you are feeling that way?

It was not boycotted. That's an absurd statement from someone who probably didn't even know it happened (From your previous statement you made). AS I said, they've voted for statehood consistently from 2012. The turnout was so low last time, for several reasons. Number 1 is probably because, they had a good turnout for 2012...and other votes for statehood have had large turnouts. Every single one of them have been ignored by the US congress. After 5 years, there comes a point that people start to wonder if anyone is ever going to listen to them and if it's worth saying it over and over and over and over and over and over again while being ignored. Secondly, there was some contesting of the language of the questions. It was seen as if they were trying to twist it so people accidentally voted for independence, and there was no commonwealth option if people chose to vote for that, which was then added I believe at the last minute, but poorly worded as well. From how you didn't even know that the Puerto Ricans were voting for statehood I think you don't really know much about the issue (considering your last mistaken statement prior to this), but are trying to color it with your own bias. The biggest barrier to statehood is not Puerto Ricans, but the US congress not wanting to grant statehood to Puerto Rico. They've given every excuse under the moon (and now it's them saying it's the 70 billion dollar debt...when compared to what the US govt. spends normally anways...that's a drop in the bucket...heck if the US govt is willing to help out California in their budgetary problems...it should be a no brainer to help PR). The Hurricane hitting hasn't helped at all, but Puerto Rico WANTS statehood. It's the US govt (and possibly people with the same attitude as you've exhibited that try to paint P.R. as expressing opinions the exact opposite of what is prevalent currently in P.R.) that do not want P.R. to have statehood.

That could actually end up as a bonus for the LDS church if we didn't have to buy materials from the BSA. Think about how much these badges and things cost currently...and how much they probably could cost if we made and sold them via distribution services instead. If we had to manufacture the materials for our BSA programs, I think we'd save a LOT of money that we use in purchasing stuff...I'd call that a win/win. Call them LDS Eagles rather than Classic Eagles and I think both us and the BSA might consider that a win (afterall, there's already the term non-lds use in some instances for those Eagles in LDS troops, calling them the Mormon Eagles and other such things...this would just make a more stark difference and officialize the differences between LDS troops and the ones that follow the BSA into chaotic policy heck).

Depends on how far out you extend our SF bay area. Ours would be around Walnut Creek. You aren't looking at a massive sized house. You'll have to travel a little bit and then probably take 2 hours to get to SF by BART. Or, if you drive to downtown you could narrow it down somewhat to around 1.75 hours to 2.5 hours depending on how fast you drive, time of day, and construction en route. Oakland would be quicker...if you consider that part of the Bay. Most outside of CA consider the entire area part of the SF area. The 475K was actually based on estimates a few years back. Who knows if they are more now or not.

So, I'm back to do more of an explanation on how this would work. The LDS church wouldn't necessarily be under the thumb of the Boy Scouts if it had an independent branch (called the LDS Boy Scouts of America or otherwise named). Let me give the following examples. The Star Wars license to make miniature games is currently held by Fantasy Flight Games. They can make the rules for their miniatures as they like. They license the Star Wars license within reason, but Disney does NOT control Fantasy Flight Games corporation or other things. They can say they don't want things in Fantasy Flights games as per their contract, but Fantasy Flight Games is an independent company (under Asmodee North). They have access to the Star Wars history and other things, but they are not controlled by Hasbro. Here's another example, We have a licensed Ford Dealer in our town. They have a contract/agreement with Ford Motors. The Dealer runs their company as they want within the confines of the contract. They are not owned nor controlled by Ford, and actually sell used cars they obtain that are not Ford Vehicles. Here's another Example which might not be if we had a contract... I have graduate students that I utilize. They have their freedom to write and do research as they desire without my direct oversight or control. If I need them in my research I will use them as needed, but they are still free to do what they write and wish to research under my auspices at times. I do NOT control their personal lives. This is the type of thing I'm talking about. I would say the LDS church hashes out an agreement in contract with the BSA to create a separate branch. This branch is NOT under the control of National (BSA leadership) directly. As the LDS has chairs on the board now, instead those become the direct leadership of the LDS BSA. Under contract, they do not control how we run our branch of the organization. In return, we pay them for the usage of the name, the model (so ranks, merit badges, and other things found currently under the BSA). However, we run our program in the traditional manner, utilizing the ideas of present day and past (so we could bring up the ideas of rank advancement from the past instead of strictly sticking to the model they have now if we so desire...Belt Loops...let's see their return!!!) in our own Boy Scouts of America Program. The details would be hashed in a contract, and beyond that, we control our organization as we see fit under their banner. They only have the say that the contract allows them to have. That's the idea that I'm discussing, but as I said, not too popular. Overall, I think many of the Saints in the US have been somewhat anti-scouts (and anti-young men's program...we've actually had the current program since 2013, and another one was in place even before that...and MOST UNITS NEVER USED IT, OR EVEN USE IT NOW!!!!) for the past 20 years. They say they support the LDS church, but in reality, it seems that they have no desire to actually follow the program. The most success we've actually had is in the BSA program as that's the only thing that membership in the US have actually followed. They seem to ignore everything else that's been put out for guidance of the Young Men's programs. If one wants to know a major reason for the LDS church staying in BSA thus far, it's probably because that's the ONLY PART of the Young Men's program in the US that's actually being utilized except for the Sunday Lessons in Priesthood. There are other parts of the Young Men's program, but just like Venture and Varsity Scouts were, most of the time none of it is actually being utilized or even noticed!

Actually, they voted to BE a state whenever given the chance from what I've heard. In fact, even in the most recent vote this year (I believe it was June 2017), for those that voted, it was 97% voted for statehood. They have voted consistently for statehood ever since 2012 (now prior to 2000 I believe many voted to NOT have statehood, which is where your outdated information may be coming from). It's not the Puerto Ricans who aren't asking for Statehood, it's the Federal Government that is not granting it to them. Ironically, I believe they have more US citizens in P.R. than several US states...or had until the hurricane at least. Adding: In that light, they were going to have a vote this month on it again to try to have a better turnout to hopefully better be able to convince Congress to make them a state finally (which would promptly be ignored like everything from Puerto Rico gets ignored by Congress), but with the devastation here and trying to recover...I have an impression that isn't going to happen like planned).

An organization run by the LDS church under the BSA umbrella wouldn't be subject to the BSA laws. That's something that I don't think you understand completely @Joca in what I was stating. In an agreement where one is able to use the name and resources of something, but control their own organization is the type of deal I am discussing. I have to go visit inactives and other members so I don't have time to really explain right now, but if I can find time later I'll try to explain more fully.

From what I understand it, the best situation is to convert your father, have him go to the temple and then be sealed to your mother in the temple and then you to them. Of course, the ideal is not the most probable from what you explained. In this instance, you would probably have to wait until your father dies. What comes next depends on what ordinances your mother already had in this life. It is possible she was already endowed, but if she was not, then any temple ordinances she lacked would need to be performed. The same is with your father, all his work would also need to be done. Then, you could have them sealed together and you could be sealed to them.

I think they are around 40K right now, but a LOT of that is because they have handicapped themselves. Instead of actually being Christlike and accepting all who acknowledge him and are Christian, they make it so that only those who believe in their distinct brand of the trinity can be acknowledged from what I read on their site. This means that they are in competition with the Royal Scouts and others who also have rather narrow interpretations. The Strength of the BSA when they were new was that they allowed all who had a firm belief and a patriotic sense to join. This gave them a broader range then many other competing Scouting organizations (BSA was just one of a few at the time). If Trail Life had a broader allowance to accept all Christians, I think their membership would be ten fold of what it is at this point, at least, if not more. There is currently a massive gaping hole where Boy Scouts used to fill, and that's one Trail Life could have filled (and could still if they actually got their act together) if they had taken a stance similar to the original Boy Scouts at the beginning of the 20th century. Instead they took a page from some of the now extinct boys organizations. I know most of the GA's probably don't share my opinion, but I personally think a good route would be to cut a deal with the BSA. Basically, have them let us cut out our own branch of the BSA. We could call it something like LDS Boy Scouts of America, or Boy Scouts of America (LDS). We would be over it in everything including membership and all other accounts, but still be able to utilize the same ranks, merit badges and other items that we have had in the past. We would have our own leadership, rules, membership, and everything else...aka...part of them, but totally separate at the same time. That way we could tailor it as we like, without having to adopt many of the crazy measures the BSA have adopted recently, but have the same structure of it as we have had in the past few decades. That actually may end up being a great Missionary tool for the church if we did that. I believe there is a huge dissonance with the BSA and those who are it's traditional members right now. I think we could see a HUGE migration to the LDS BSA (if we could establish a separate branch under that banner) from the normal BSA in this instance, as we would be the ones filling up the gap that has been left out there by the BSA adopting all sorts of bizarre ideals that are not truly part of their organization or heritage.