NeuroTypical

I'm not just a Mormon, I'm a follower of Bill:

It's not every day our church invites non/former members to speak.  BYU had Baptist Rev. Al Mohler in 2014, and we hosted the Christian Apologist Ravi Zacharias at the tabernacle back in 2004.  Some recent news caught my attention. 
It sounds like a ward in Riverton had a rather interesting 3rd hour combined meeting last Sunday.  The topic was learning to love people in the LGBTQ community.  The multiple speakers included active LDS members of that community, parents of a son who had committed suicide, and to my surprise - people who had stepped away from the church also spoke.
I'm getting this information from public facebook posts from Bishop and his wife Susie N Paul Augenstein.
This post contains the Bishop's outline from the 28 Jan 2017 third hour combined meeting.  Also see this post, and this post. 
Parkway Ward - LDS.org 
It sounds like it was very well received, love was fostered and understanding increased.  I found the whole thing fascinating.  I'm seeing some folks are having some strong reactions to the thing.
What do y'all think?

What does that even mean?  
 
Oh man, life would be so much simpler if loving one another removed the need to judge totally.  Changed, I take it back - you get to be emperor of the mormons - anteater and everything.  Please make it so I don't have to judge righteous judgment any more.  I once had to choose between an 8 year old girl, and the person who had sexually abused her.  Probably one of the harder judgments I've been forced to make in life.  I remember coming to harsh grips with the fact that if I chose to do nothing except sit there and exude love towards them both, that was the same as judging in favor of the abuser and against the victim.  If I chose to testify, it was judging in favor of her, and he'd go to prison.  And, like you, I think hard things are hard.  Surely, this notion you voice would have been much easier on me.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/08/judge-not-and-judging

What does that even mean?  
 
Oh man, life would be so much simpler if loving one another removed the need to judge totally.  Changed, I take it back - you get to be emperor of the mormons - anteater and everything.  Please make it so I don't have to judge righteous judgment any more.  I once had to choose between an 8 year old girl, and the person who had sexually abused her.  Probably one of the harder judgments I've been forced to make in life.  I remember coming to harsh grips with the fact that if I chose to do nothing except sit there and exude love towards them both, that was the same as judging in favor of the abuser and against the victim.  If I chose to testify, it was judging in favor of her, and he'd go to prison.  And, like you, I think hard things are hard.  Surely, this notion you voice would have been much easier on me.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/08/judge-not-and-judging

What does that even mean?  
 
Oh man, life would be so much simpler if loving one another removed the need to judge totally.  Changed, I take it back - you get to be emperor of the mormons - anteater and everything.  Please make it so I don't have to judge righteous judgment any more.  I once had to choose between an 8 year old girl, and the person who had sexually abused her.  Probably one of the harder judgments I've been forced to make in life.  I remember coming to harsh grips with the fact that if I chose to do nothing except sit there and exude love towards them both, that was the same as judging in favor of the abuser and against the victim.  If I chose to testify, it was judging in favor of her, and he'd go to prison.  And, like you, I think hard things are hard.  Surely, this notion you voice would have been much easier on me.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/08/judge-not-and-judging

And that's why we don't let Changed be bishop.

It feels like this thread could use a little bit of TFP interjection.
So here it is.
Boom shakalaka.
 

Hi jwest,
Social media is made up of "transactional conversation".  Meaning, there's a point to talking.  For example, you are here on this thread talking to us, and the point is you want opinions and info about talking with this girl.  We're providing opinions and info.  There are transactions happening.  
So, just talk to her, like you're talking to us.  Have a point.  If there's something you want to know about her, ask.  You can even have some guts and say "I'm totally new to facebook and looking for online friends.  But I don't even know what that means."  I'm guessing she'd be thrilled to tell you everything she knows, and within a few minutes you'll be friends.
 

Oh, such things bug me too.  But not everything that bugs me is worth spending any effort.  
A friend once put it this way: "I only try to force enough order in this chaos to just get where I'm trying to go."

I'm not just a Mormon, I'm a follower of Bill:

Here's two ways to lose with certain people:
1- Decline to preach the gospel to, or baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Because that would put them in an impossible situation of having to choose between God and their parents, following one and rejecting the other. 
Result: Get blamed for splitting up the family, luring children into brainwashing centers and teaching them their parents are horrible hell-bound sinners.  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
2- Preach the gospel to, and baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Teach them the gospel, which includes God's plan of happiness, a traditional definition of marriage, goals of marrying someone of the opposite gender or nobody. 
Result: Get accused of "segregation, clicks, people not accepting them and not helping them."  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
Keep in mind, people in these marriages are always telling is this ISN'T like smoking or drinking or sinning - this is a central issue that makes up the core of their being.  Not something that can just be set aside without harm.
So, if the church is what it is, then God is the one directing our actions here.  If it isn't what it claims to be, then I guess it's a whacked-out cultural club with quirky cliques and segregation.  Why would anyone want to be in that club?

Hi guys, 
 
Sorry maybe it was a little unclear, but the toxic person is not my current girlfriend but my ex from Australia. I did not join the church for her, that was a decision I made on my own. 
My current girlfriend is amazing, I just have been having difficulty processing the hard time I've been going through. 
Tldr: my ex girlfriend (C) caused the damage to me and my current girlfriend (T). 
And thank you Jane Doe. Any other advice? 

Every hobby on the planet is this way, and yet, people don't take heat for that.  Like music? You'll need to buy it (or steal it, which is worse).  Like running? You'll need to buy shoes and other attire.  Like painting?  You'll need canvas, easel, paints, brushes, palette.  Like gardening?  You'll need seeds and tools and land.  Like to read?  You'll need to buy books (or get a library card, but likely you'll buy books).  Like hunting?  You'll need a lot of stuff there.  Like a particular holiday?  You'll have to buy appropriate decorations...  Etc. Etc. Etc.  Sigh.

@NeuroTypical, time for the next stage!  Check these out!

Here's two ways to lose with certain people:
1- Decline to preach the gospel to, or baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Because that would put them in an impossible situation of having to choose between God and their parents, following one and rejecting the other. 
Result: Get blamed for splitting up the family, luring children into brainwashing centers and teaching them their parents are horrible hell-bound sinners.  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
2- Preach the gospel to, and baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Teach them the gospel, which includes God's plan of happiness, a traditional definition of marriage, goals of marrying someone of the opposite gender or nobody. 
Result: Get accused of "segregation, clicks, people not accepting them and not helping them."  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
Keep in mind, people in these marriages are always telling is this ISN'T like smoking or drinking or sinning - this is a central issue that makes up the core of their being.  Not something that can just be set aside without harm.
So, if the church is what it is, then God is the one directing our actions here.  If it isn't what it claims to be, then I guess it's a whacked-out cultural club with quirky cliques and segregation.  Why would anyone want to be in that club?

It is true that folks struggling with gender identity and transitioning and surgeries and hormone therapy tend to have horribly high rates, not only of attempted suicide, but actually committing suicide.   It's absolutely horrible.
Grabbing that truth and using it to score points against the other side?  Did you at least wait until their bodies cooled down?
Hopefully you're not done changing, Changed, because that's a really crappy tactic. Kind of the opposite of helpful.
 

Here's two ways to lose with certain people:
1- Decline to preach the gospel to, or baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Because that would put them in an impossible situation of having to choose between God and their parents, following one and rejecting the other. 
Result: Get blamed for splitting up the family, luring children into brainwashing centers and teaching them their parents are horrible hell-bound sinners.  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
2- Preach the gospel to, and baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Teach them the gospel, which includes God's plan of happiness, a traditional definition of marriage, goals of marrying someone of the opposite gender or nobody. 
Result: Get accused of "segregation, clicks, people not accepting them and not helping them."  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
Keep in mind, people in these marriages are always telling is this ISN'T like smoking or drinking or sinning - this is a central issue that makes up the core of their being.  Not something that can just be set aside without harm.
So, if the church is what it is, then God is the one directing our actions here.  If it isn't what it claims to be, then I guess it's a whacked-out cultural club with quirky cliques and segregation.  Why would anyone want to be in that club?

It is true that folks struggling with gender identity and transitioning and surgeries and hormone therapy tend to have horribly high rates, not only of attempted suicide, but actually committing suicide.   It's absolutely horrible.
Grabbing that truth and using it to score points against the other side?  Did you at least wait until their bodies cooled down?
Hopefully you're not done changing, Changed, because that's a really crappy tactic. Kind of the opposite of helpful.
 

Here's two ways to lose with certain people:
1- Decline to preach the gospel to, or baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Because that would put them in an impossible situation of having to choose between God and their parents, following one and rejecting the other. 
Result: Get blamed for splitting up the family, luring children into brainwashing centers and teaching them their parents are horrible hell-bound sinners.  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
2- Preach the gospel to, and baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Teach them the gospel, which includes God's plan of happiness, a traditional definition of marriage, goals of marrying someone of the opposite gender or nobody. 
Result: Get accused of "segregation, clicks, people not accepting them and not helping them."  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
Keep in mind, people in these marriages are always telling is this ISN'T like smoking or drinking or sinning - this is a central issue that makes up the core of their being.  Not something that can just be set aside without harm.
So, if the church is what it is, then God is the one directing our actions here.  If it isn't what it claims to be, then I guess it's a whacked-out cultural club with quirky cliques and segregation.  Why would anyone want to be in that club?

Here's two ways to lose with certain people:
1- Decline to preach the gospel to, or baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Because that would put them in an impossible situation of having to choose between God and their parents, following one and rejecting the other. 
Result: Get blamed for splitting up the family, luring children into brainwashing centers and teaching them their parents are horrible hell-bound sinners.  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
2- Preach the gospel to, and baptize, the children of same-sex households.  Teach them the gospel, which includes God's plan of happiness, a traditional definition of marriage, goals of marrying someone of the opposite gender or nobody. 
Result: Get accused of "segregation, clicks, people not accepting them and not helping them."  Guilt for the suicide of any kid in this situation is laid on the church's head.
Keep in mind, people in these marriages are always telling is this ISN'T like smoking or drinking or sinning - this is a central issue that makes up the core of their being.  Not something that can just be set aside without harm.
So, if the church is what it is, then God is the one directing our actions here.  If it isn't what it claims to be, then I guess it's a whacked-out cultural club with quirky cliques and segregation.  Why would anyone want to be in that club?

Suicide Mortality by State
Overall Religiosity by State
Most and Least Christian States in America

It is true that folks struggling with gender identity and transitioning and surgeries and hormone therapy tend to have horribly high rates, not only of attempted suicide, but actually committing suicide.   It's absolutely horrible.
Grabbing that truth and using it to score points against the other side?  Did you at least wait until their bodies cooled down?
Hopefully you're not done changing, Changed, because that's a really crappy tactic. Kind of the opposite of helpful.
 

I'm not just a Mormon, I'm a follower of Bill:

I'm not just a Mormon, I'm a follower of Bill:

The challenge with addressing the suicide problem is that the mere coverage of it can make it quickly turn viral. For example, shortly after Robin Williams took his own life the was a spike in suicides nationally.  Samaritans (an organization aiming to reduce suicide through 1:1 care) has issues some guidelines for public discussion on a particular suicide in an effort to curtail imitation.