Traveler

Exactly what I was thinking of.  I suppose I was born after it happened, but when I learned this tidbit, that's when I began chuckling about such things.

Just a little note - it is my understanding that after WWII the Department of War became known as the Department of Defense.
 
The Traveler

I can go with that - lets call it our feeble attempt at justice.  😁
 
The Traveler

What is the law (legal system) other than man's feeble attempt at justice?

It is impossible to achieve much in the resemblance of justice in this life – but I do agree most heartly that such is not any reason not to attempt to bring about what bits and pieces of justice that we can.  With all that said – I have lost confidence in our current justice system concerning the matters being talked about.  I think we should call our system the legal system instead of our justice system.
PS thanks for your imput and enjoy this season.
  
The Traveler

I am reminded of a quote from the end of the movie The Razor's Edge, which at one point in my life I found very insightful and even profound: "There is no payoff. Not now." We need not worry that the wicked will somehow dodge retribution or avoid "getting what's coming to them". They will not. Similarly, we need not worry that those who, like ourselves, are duped by ignorance and foolishness will be forever condemned for that; they will not.

I'm mostly in agreement with @Traveler's post.  I'd rewrite the last sentence to say: "sometime in the future; this era and time of COVID will be understood as a time when
1- Nations used a deadly pandemic as an excuse to engage in excessive overreach, and
2- Various cultural forces took advantage of the situation to push for radical and usually harmful change.
I don't know what the picture will look like for #1, but for #2, it'll be something like this:

I will make a few predictions.  No one (person) will be convicted of any wrongdoing.  No one (person) that is employed at any pharmacy will lose their position, pension or anything at all.  No one (person) that is in any government position (like Fauci) will ever suffer any legal consequences for their actions.  Finely, sometime in the future; this era and time of COVID will be called one of the greatest hoaxes and scams of history.
 
The Traveler

I think it is sad (especially among LDS) to define success in terms of worldly achievements – especially money.  The second problem is in defining success in terms of others (our children, family or friends).  Perhaps the strangest is defining one’s success in terms of heroes – like your favorite sports team, celebrity or following the initial op – tribe association.   The flipside of this is the inability to realize the shortcomings of ourselves or those in our tribe – or until your enemy does it.
I have often thought about determining my personal successes.  I hold two patents from work, but the reality is that the patents were not really my ideas but came as inspiration from a source outside of myself.  I cannot take credit for something that is not mine.
I mentioned what I am thinking about success to my wife, and she said that I am an amazing husband – but the truth is that she is an amazing wife that makes me a better husband.
I am thinking that determining personal success is a trap similar to humility.  The more you think you are a master of it the more you are failing at it.  And if you think you have failed – it is likely that you have.  The one thing I believe; is that if you love someone unselfishly – that truly is one thing in which you have indeed succeeded.
 
The Traveler

I think it is sad (especially among LDS) to define success in terms of worldly achievements – especially money.  The second problem is in defining success in terms of others (our children, family or friends).  Perhaps the strangest is defining one’s success in terms of heroes – like your favorite sports team, celebrity or following the initial op – tribe association.   The flipside of this is the inability to realize the shortcomings of ourselves or those in our tribe – or until your enemy does it.
I have often thought about determining my personal successes.  I hold two patents from work, but the reality is that the patents were not really my ideas but came as inspiration from a source outside of myself.  I cannot take credit for something that is not mine.
I mentioned what I am thinking about success to my wife, and she said that I am an amazing husband – but the truth is that she is an amazing wife that makes me a better husband.
I am thinking that determining personal success is a trap similar to humility.  The more you think you are a master of it the more you are failing at it.  And if you think you have failed – it is likely that you have.  The one thing I believe; is that if you love someone unselfishly – that truly is one thing in which you have indeed succeeded.
 
The Traveler

Joseph Smith: "If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves..."
I think the problem started with the Nicene Creed which attempted to make God incomprehensible. It has only gotten worse over time. 

Amen. As someone married since 2002 to the same gal I’ll never feel like a failure. 

You guys are both very accomplished in your careers, and more importantly you have wonderful families.
 
I truly don’t understand why either one of you would feel even remotely like you haven’t accomplished much. 

When I was in the bishopric, we had 4 small children and the two older boys were difficult for my wife to handle by herself.  I asked the bishop if I could have one of my boys sit with me on the stand.  It worked and my boys were better behaved for it.
As a side note – not so long ago, as a member of the Elder’s quorum presidency, I was left to preside without any other priesthood leadership – everybody else was out of town.  As it turned out all the others on the stand were ladies.  Both the talks, youth speaker, music conductor, organists and opening prayer.  Those blessing the sacrament and the ward clerk sat at the far sides of the stans so they did not really count.    I took the opportunity to comment that sitting on the stand in the midst of such spiritual ladies, that I felt like a lion in a den of Danials.
 
The Traveler

The first offence of Satan was to rebel against G-d and the primary offense of that rebellion was an effort to destroy the agency of man.  Moses 4:3
A few things of note:  
1. Satan sought to destroy the agency of man.
2. Agency is a gift from G-d
3. All that followed Satan and did not hearken unto the “voice” of G-d became captive to Satan and lost their agency that G-d had given them.  Being captive to someone else’s will is the opposite of agency.  (See 2Nephi 2:11)
 
The Traveler

Alternate title for Trib article:
Bay Area Relief Society Finally Deemed Reverent Enough to Rejoin Congregation 

Season’s Greetings @JohnsonJones :
I have posted previously about my understanding of “Agency”, freewill and justice.  As I understand “Agency” we are the singular determent of our eternal destiny.   Nothing is forced upon us without our exercise of agency (my understanding).  This would mean that everything happens to un in mortality is something to which we individually agreed to and planned for in the pre-existence.   Because of our agency – I do not believe that we can blame G-d for anything.  Because of our agency – I do not believe we are living out G-d’s plan for our destiny.  Rather I believe that we are living out our own plan (allowed, gifted and supported by G-d) for our destiny – remember that we exercised our agency to participate in the Divine Plan of Salvation. 
We have the ability to make eternal reality out of our agency – the Divine Plan of Salvation is specifically designed to fulfill what we are determined to accomplish.  What happens to us in this mortal existence is not random, unfair, unjust or beyond what we are capable of dealing with.  (See 1Nephi 3:7)  Also that the fulfillment of our agency is not sufficient in this life only but is completed after we die  (See Alma 40:6)
 
The Traveler

If you live in Utah, the best place to get the Turkey rolls are at Reams.  Outside of Utah – good luck.  Most other stores try to modify the rolls and upsell them.  For those that do not live in Utah - Reams is a rather odd store ran by an odd family.  The founder has died and left stores to each of their kids (I do not think that they all get along all that well - but I do not know – just a guess).  Each store has its own kind of flavor.   The one I shop has the best made in store bakery.  It is also the best store to get Wheat Check cereal and canned apricots that I use to make a tart sauce for my home-made wheat waffles rather than syrup.
As a side note – there are other turkey roll options, but I think Norbest is the best – especially for the price.  I believe that the Norbest turkey rolls cook up better (moist and tender) than a whole turkey and any one can carve them.
 
The Traveler

I think anyone with eyes to see...  Sees complaints about election rigging continuing to happen.  (Agree or disagree it doesn't matter complaints going to continue)  So why aren't we working to secure the vote and build up confidence that our votes are counted and fair?  After all it is one thing to simply say someone is a sore loser (which they very well may be) but its a much better to be able to prove it.
So why haven't we taken the time between elections to create a voting system that can prove the accuracy of the vote to the voters rather then forcing use to assume it to be accurate?

How very, very wrong I was. In fact, rereading this thread reminds me of just how prejudiced and media-influenced my own opinion was. I'm still no Trumpster, but I do maintain that, all things considered, he was our best and most effective president since Bush, maybe since Clinton (I dare not bring Saint Ronald into the conversation).
I believe that Trump will win the Repub nomination, even though I would prefer another. And when he does win the nomination, I will certainly vote for him in the general election, barring a believable revelation with proof that Trump was actually behind the January 6 foolishness or otherwise acted in a seditious manner beyond his puerile whining about election rigging (which I don't entirely disbelieve, btw).

For us what may seem accidental or untimely are not so with the Lord.  I feel he knows how and when we each will pass, even if we do not know ourselves.

Greetings @Jersey Boyand @zil2
I do not intend to hijack your discussion but rather perhaps join in a little.  I think the concerns and thoughts about fair and just as expressed by @Jersey Boy are valid points.  As I have contemplated myself what happens between birth and death, and I am convinced that this is not sufficient to determine anything related to justice, fairness nor agency.  I have concluded that something must exist before birth as well as after death to mitigate justice, fairness and agency.
We are told that we will maintain the same spirit (attitude?) after we die that we pursued in life.  I am not sure I understand what that means – though I have some ideas.  In essence we retain our identity of who we are.
As to having faith in Jesus Christ as suggested by @zil2.  I see such faith as entirely too ambiguous.  How can we have the necessary faith in Christ if we have incorrect ideas of his nature and purpose (among other things)?  I had several public debates with an individual (Chris Allen - ) on the subject, “Does G-d exist”.  I conceded the debate when I was able to realize his concept, understanding and definition of G-d.  I conceded because I did not believe that such a being existed or could possibly exist.  Since he did not understand my concept of G-d – I could not see any reason to continue.
In short I do not believe that having faith in the mis concepts of Jesus Christ is any more beneficial than not having faith at all – thus the reason for learning the truth of Christ in the spirit world so we can have valid faith in him and his atonement.  Thus, it is my understanding that there is not a second chance as it is a valid and true chance.
 
The Traveler

Thanks!  We no longer cook a turkey per say but purchase what is called the Norbest turkey roll or roast.  What is unique about a turkey roll is that there are no bones.  It seems to cook better and maintain the moisture – making leftovers much better.  We have also dropped the traditional potatoes for a mixed veggie plater – health reasons.   
I am grateful and thankful.  What is interesting to me is that when I returned from the military and mission – to normal life, I had difficulty adjusting.  A native American (mission companion and friend) suggested that I consider a spiritual quest and 40 day fast in the desert wilderness of southern Utah eating and drinking only what G-d and nature would provide.  Having lived off the land for a few weeks I came across a little stream of pure sparkling water and a wild (open range chicken).  I do not think I have ever been more grateful and thankful for a meal.  After eating everything else and a few days later – I boiled down the bones until the were soft enough to eat – basically all that was left were feathers, beak and claws.
Hopefully all on the forum had a Thanksgiving Day that they were thankful for.
 
The Traveler

When I was in the bishopric, we had 4 small children and the two older boys were difficult for my wife to handle by herself.  I asked the bishop if I could have one of my boys sit with me on the stand.  It worked and my boys were better behaved for it.
As a side note – not so long ago, as a member of the Elder’s quorum presidency, I was left to preside without any other priesthood leadership – everybody else was out of town.  As it turned out all the others on the stand were ladies.  Both the talks, youth speaker, music conductor, organists and opening prayer.  Those blessing the sacrament and the ward clerk sat at the far sides of the stans so they did not really count.    I took the opportunity to comment that sitting on the stand in the midst of such spiritual ladies, that I felt like a lion in a den of Danials.
 
The Traveler

When I was in the bishopric, we had 4 small children and the two older boys were difficult for my wife to handle by herself.  I asked the bishop if I could have one of my boys sit with me on the stand.  It worked and my boys were better behaved for it.
As a side note – not so long ago, as a member of the Elder’s quorum presidency, I was left to preside without any other priesthood leadership – everybody else was out of town.  As it turned out all the others on the stand were ladies.  Both the talks, youth speaker, music conductor, organists and opening prayer.  Those blessing the sacrament and the ward clerk sat at the far sides of the stans so they did not really count.    I took the opportunity to comment that sitting on the stand in the midst of such spiritual ladies, that I felt like a lion in a den of Danials.
 
The Traveler