Traveler

I would say this about pineapple of pizza - some pizza with pineapple but not to be mixed with just any pizza toppings.   I would add that grilling with pineapple - especially chicken and salmon with teriyaki sauce is a treat I enjoy.  But I have learned that not everyone in this world has identical tasting genetics.  I cannot stand the bitterness of chocolate mint - A lot of other people must be tasting something very different than me.
 
The Traveler

Comfy chairs - sounds more like the Relief Society.  Real men should be able to sit on rocks - outside in the weather.  What next - table cloths and flowers in vases?
 
The Traveler

I am single threaded and cannot multi task.  The house could burn down if I am reading a book or article and I would never know it.  If I ever turn from a task it is with the intention to never return to it.  This drives my poor wife nuts because she always has more than one thing on my honey-do list so when the one thing is done so is the list.  There is one other fault of mine - I can be reading a novel, watching a movie or tv show and decide I know where it is all going and just walk away in the middle and be done with it.
 
The Traveler

Comfy chairs - sounds more like the Relief Society.  Real men should be able to sit on rocks - outside in the weather.  What next - table cloths and flowers in vases?
 
The Traveler

We seem to agree that a private organization should be able to determine who its leadership is.  I'm on board.
But the issue gere seems to be that this activity falls under the auspices of the public school, and thus certain rules kick in.  If the rule says you can't discriminate based on religion, then even if the plaintiff were Muslim, Jewish or even Atheist, they would still have a case.
So it's really not about whether LDS count as Christians, but rather whether or not the group can use religion as a disqualifier in the first place.
Personally, I think the lawsuit is a bad move and will do more harm than good.  If a club doesn't want you to lead them, using legal force isn't going to show them that you care about them as a leader should.

In such cases, always assume it's a compliment.

So the Salt Lake Tribune ran an article recently. I shall not link it because I don't find that paper fit to line my hamster's cage. But I sort of watched this from the beginning to do those dreaded Facebook mom groups.
The story goes is a woman was breastfeeding at church. People complained, bishop asked her to stop, she said she wouldn't, bishop took her temple recommend away as well as that of her husband's for not commanding her better, yada yada. I don't know how much is true or exaggerated, but now there's a call or petition or something for LDS leadership to not condemn breastfeeding as sexual.
 
Now, I've breastfed at church. I've done it in the mother's lounge, though I don't always like to because it's tiny, tends towards crowding, and smells of diapers. Plus it has no speaker system. I've done it elsewhere. It's never been a problem. I am a tad rah-rah-breastfeeding and I lean toward "avert your own eyes as I'm trying my best not to flash you."
Ultimately, I don't know what really happened. While part of me is shocked at the notion the bishop took away recommends JUST because she was breastfeeding and JUST because her husband was on her side, I doubt it's so simple. I imagine a bigger hullabaloo went down that possibly did stem from this conversation.
I don't know if this is something the church should take a hard stand on. Is it a reoccuring problem? Does it support all cultures in the world-wide church? At the same time, is it a good idea, the breastfeeding being a few steps short of a strip tease, to mess with temple recommends?
 

Not so. An explanation is not an excuse. Though I do think there are weak men who have been trained up since childhood to be weak and pathetic, and I'm not at all sure they will be held responsible before God for their state. But my remark was not to excuse them, merely to point out that the cancer of feminism targets men and destroys both men and women by undermining the sacred.

Exactly, though such an excuse is a manifestation of weakness.
Regardless who is to blame for the weakness, the scriptures have the cure:
"....arise from the dust, my sons, and be amen," (2 Nephi 1:21}
I suspect that the same counsel applies, gender neutrally, to daughters.
Thanks, Wade Englund-
 

The fundamental principles of biological evolution are actually quite simple – similar to the binary principle of computers.  However, even from simple Boolean logic come sophisticated artificial intelligence that will soon rival human intelligence.  Similar to what we are now grasping as possible complexities of artificial intelligence; biological evolution is entering an era of complexity far beyond science that will touch and change our human understanding not just of what we are as living entities but things we thought were only possible for a G-d - perhaps even more than that.
There are many, and this is perhaps what @Scott may be thinking about, that are stuck in the past era of Darwinian evolution when the science of evolution was grasping desperately for new answers.  The science of evolution is itself evolving very rapidly.  The knowledge gained from the science of evolution is changing the medical and dental professions.  We have evolved from the artificial heart of Barney Clark to heart transplants using knowledge learned from the study of evolution.  But now we are capable of biologically engineering new organs to replace genetically defective ones.  We are even growing new teeth and bones.  Things already being done experimentally for non-human life forms.  Our agriculture is already producing genetically altered foods that is changing how we eat and provide nutrition for populations that literally scare social scientists and even religious folks that are starting to understand that biological evolution is changing a great more than ideas printed in books as previously expected and feared in religious circles.
In past posts I have referenced those that refuse to accept the preponderance of empirical evidence to someone standing in the bright light of noon day – declaring it night.   To everyone with eyes open they will realize the stupidity of such denials – but those in denial refusing to open their eyes will only continue to think they are the champions of something that in reality is fading into oblivion.  To be honest – I have often wondered how it was possible for a third part of heaven (the most intelligent and sophisticated society in the entire universe) to follow after Lucifer in rejection of light and truth that advances everyone that excepts it.  And yet regardless of all other factors – as the saying goes – you can lead a horse to the waters of intelligence but you cannot make it think.  Do I understand the complexities of evolution – hardly – I would compare such as standing by an ocean thinking to catch a wave in a cup.
 
The Traveler

As a little note in your discussion I often think that we attempt to apply "words" as we understand them in a specific context.  But I think there is much more to scripture - which can only be understood correctly through the Holy Ghost.  In the Eden epoch; we indeed have a paradox concerning the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.  First off - trees are often used in scripture to reference things that have nothing to do with actual trees.  Jesus spoke of trees to reference goodness or lack of goodness in individuals - People -- not plants.
For those that refuse to understand the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil to include possibilities of anything other than an actual physical tree and its fruit - I personally do not think that they understand much concerning revelation and inspiration from G-d especially concerning this particular subject.  The Eden epoch is to be understood within the context of the Father's plan of salvation - not as a means to maintain fruit trees in an orchard or garden.  In short - though we all understand somewhat of good and evil - there is an extent of knowledge of good and evil that neither Adam and Eve nor any of the Children of G-d in the pre-existence understood.  We had some ideas of evil but none of us had experienced death - that knowledge did not exist in the rheum in which we existed.  By the same token there were aspects of good that were not available - sort of for the same reason.  The good I speak of has to do with the sacrifice and atonement of G-d (Christ).  In the pre-existence there was nothing quite like death and resurrection from hell.  It was not that we had no knowledge of good and evil but that our knowledge was incomplete and under the current conditions (law if you will) we could not progress in knowledge to obtain that which we lacked.  And so it is that I believe the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil is something to be understood beyond any physical or actual fruit of any physical or actual tree.  In short there is much more to this story than that which meets the eye (physical eye).  And again, what is missing, can only be understood through the Holy Ghost.
As I personally search for understanding - I am aware that what I do not understand is more and greater than that which I do understand.  But my concern is not just for myself - because it would seem that there are some that think they have all this and much more figured out.  But when I ask - what would seem to be some of the more simple questions - those purporting great knowledge seem to be unable to answer but even worse - they do not seem to even understand that they are lacking in what they think they know. 
Thanks for your input - I have learned from you posts.
 
The Traveler

If your claim above is true, then you need to ramp up your critical reading skills and your specificity in writing. You were responding to Godless, who was clearly talking about organic evolution, not abiogenesis. And your very first sentence was, "Yeah, it's all a fairytale." NO reasonable reader who was paying attention would have understood your "yeah" response was for a completely different topic from the one you were responding to.

I appreciate your input.  I believe it shows study and openness and willingness to learn.  I can honestly say that my understanding of evolution has itself evolved.  But to all Judo-Christians that hold religious significance for the Biblical Book of Genesis - I would ask a question?  Why would G-d command all living things to multiply and replenish the earth AFTER THEIR OWN KIND if it was not somehow - even remotely - possible for them to do something else?  Such a command would make G-d a giver of really stupid commandments unrelated to the reality of what is.
 
The Traveler

I appreciate your input.  I believe it shows study and openness and willingness to learn.  I can honestly say that my understanding of evolution has itself evolved.  But to all Judo-Christians that hold religious significance for the Biblical Book of Genesis - I would ask a question?  Why would G-d command all living things to multiply and replenish the earth AFTER THEIR OWN KIND if it was not somehow - even remotely - possible for them to do something else?  Such a command would make G-d a giver of really stupid commandments unrelated to the reality of what is.
 
The Traveler

It is interesting that Jesus employed logic - both to those that sought disagreement and those that sought understanding.  What is interesting is that even with pure logic and the spiritual power of G-d - those that sought disagreement seldom were convinced to consider anything new.
 
The Traveler

Oh, that's easy.  On online forums such as this, the purpose isn't to convince or change the mind of, those entrenched on the other side.  The purpose is to help undecided folks, or folks open to additional information and knowledge.  When someone desirous of grappling with the different notions of a topic, watches two sides battle online, they have the opportunity to tally their own score to pick a winner.  When those tally marks are given on the basis of rational thought or spiritual confirmation of truth, people will indeed change.
I'm pretty loud and obnoxious these days, but for a decade starting in the mid '90's, I basically lurked, read, searched, thought.  I solidified my testimony by searching out claims of critics, and seeing what everyone had to say about it, and then reaching my conclusions.  Absolutely zero critics budged a single dang inch in their opinions during the process. 

One of my personal great lessons is concerning empirical evidence.  I am convinced that humanity will do the most evil, stupid and illogical things in the name of G-d and religion - including (if you will) standing in the bright sun light of noon day and declare it night to uphold their desired religious notions.  G-d had declared that all things (including empirical evidence) witness there is and G-d and that Jesus is the Christ.  This means that when empirical evidence contradicts religious notions - the religious notions are incorrect.  G-d does not utilize empirical evidence to present false witnesses.   G-d controls the physical universe and does not lie by planting lies in the physical universe to test us.
 
The Traveler

One of my personal great lessons is concerning empirical evidence.  I am convinced that humanity will do the most evil, stupid and illogical things in the name of G-d and religion - including (if you will) standing in the bright sun light of noon day and declare it night to uphold their desired religious notions.  G-d had declared that all things (including empirical evidence) witness there is and G-d and that Jesus is the Christ.  This means that when empirical evidence contradicts religious notions - the religious notions are incorrect.  G-d does not utilize empirical evidence to present false witnesses.   G-d controls the physical universe and does not lie by planting lies in the physical universe to test us.
 
The Traveler

Thanks for asking - he did almost pass out a couple of days after we left Norway but following that - he has had no more problems.  He is convinced that while under care he was given a muscle relaxer that allowed him to pass the stone(s) - which he claims was not as easy as it sounds.  As we have talked and I have asked what he would have changed - he responded that the best cure for a kidney stone is simply to pass it - which he claims is impossible without some way to avert the pain and relax muscles.  His advice - if someone is in a country with government health care with a kidney stone; would be to forgo the treatment and get some illegal drugs and treat themselves long enough to relax, overcome the pain and pass the stone(s).
 
The Traveler

I have many examples of failures in both nationalized health care and for profit health care.  If one looks down the list of health care in Europe provided by Sunday21 they will find Norway at the top or in the top 3 best.  Many rate Norway as the best system in the world.  What these lists and ranking fail to provide is that though the access is the best – the care itself is not.  Just this year I was traveling with my brother that developed kidney stones while in Norway.  We were told not to worry, Norway has the best health care system in Europe (if not the world).  My brother leans Democrat  and is (or was) a strong proponent of Obama Care.   I will provide (below) a short list of my brother’s concerns.
#1. My brother was diagnosed without seeing a doctor – I realize this is often the case in many systems but it was interesting that a doctor never looked at or examined my brother for the purpose of determining care.
#2. All treatment, medications, procedures and planning for my brother was done by a committee that never saw or talked to my brother and no one on staff that interfaced directly with my brother had any power to modify anything the committee determined concerning his care.  Any updates were referred back to the committee – we were never sure how often this committee actually met, who was involved or if they were even local and even if and when we wanted we were not allowed to interface with anyone on that committee.
#3.  There is no such thing as a second opinion nor is there any other option for any other care.  Once the process was started we were told where my brother must be taken for his care (this changed 4 times during his care) and we were not allowed to modify or have any input.  I would say again that during this time not only was there no choice in what doctor – there was not even a choice to be seen by a doctor.
#4. Not really sure but we were under the impression that if there was an attempt to deviate from the procedures of the care – we could be charged with a criminal offense.
#5. There are no private rooms in the hospital where my brother ended up.  During his first night a patient in his room was suffering great pain and crying out for help.  The call buttons either did not function or there was no one to respond.  In pain my brother got up, dragged his IV and went looking for help.  There was no nursing station on his floor and he was unable to find a nurse on his floor (it was a large hospital).  Over the next (at least 2 hours) he searched other floors unable to find any health care personal.  He finally found what he thought was a security person or perhaps a janitor that was able to contact a health care person.  The individual was checked but nothing changed and the guy continued to cry the rest of the night.
#6. On more than one occasion my brother’s IV ran out and started drawing blood back into the IV bag.
#7. My brother was scheduled for surgery (first thing of the day) the second day of his care.  No one showed up on the day of surgery until about 2:00 pm.  In the meantime my brother had determined to urinate and was successful – but he was still taken to surgery.  There for the first time he saw a doctor that did not speak English very well and because my brother had urinated it was decided by the doctor not to operate but to discharge my brother.  My brother was concerned that there may have been more than one kidney stone but was glad to get out of the system
My brother’s political views have changed a little.  Two things he told me at the conclusion of all this is 1. Anyone purporting government controlled health care has never experienced critical care for themselves or someone they love from such health care.  And 2. Regardless of how bad any health care system is – turning health care professionals into government bureaucrats will only make it worse.
Sorry but I did forget to add that my brother was never charged or asked for any payment.
 
The Traveler

Purgatory - being the staging ground before salvation where those penitent plea with Christ for salvation and saints help and pray for those in purgatory to be saved - is closer to the LDS teaching of the Plan of Salvation than the Protestant teaching of heaven and hell simply because of the fact that heaven and hell is taught as a final destination.
In LDS teaching, the similar teaching of heaven and hell is spirit paradise and spirit prison.  These are estates that are part of the progression and is not the final salvific destination.  Therefore, spirits who die go to either spirit paradise (heaven) or spirit prison (hell) and continue to learn about Christ and accept his saving grace (heaven and hell being like purgatory where it is not the final destination).  Spirits in paradise have accepted Christ and has overcome their mortal challenges in such a way that they have freed themselves from unGodly Will - this is similar to the Catholic saints.  Spirits in prison still haven't accepted Christ or have not overcome their sinful nature so they continue to learn and grow and repent until such time that they qualify for paradise - this is similar to Catholic Purgatory. 
Baptism for the dead - a temple ordinance - is an act of love for those who are in prison by those who are in their mortal probation as baptism is an ordinance performed on mortal bodies.  Those in prison may accept the baptism done by their proxies as a covenant they make with Christ to accept his atoning grace.  Also, those in spirit paradise continue their work as teachers and ministers to those in prison to help them free themselves from bondage (similar to Catholic saints aiding spirits bound in purgatory - so it is like in Catholic tradition where mortal people pray and plea to the saints to aid them and intercede on behalf of their dead loved ones in purgatory).
This is the important teaching absent in either Catholic or Protestant teaching:  After the completion of Christ's work of atonement, spirits in paradise/prison go through the final judgment of Christ where we are sifted to the final estate within the Plan of Salvation - outer darkness or any of the degrees of glory where Christ reigns.  Those who pass through the waters of baptism and make the covenant (including those baptized by proxy) will be in glory, the lowest degree being degrees of magnitude more glorious than earthly paradise and the highest degree of which is being in the constant companion of the Father.  Those who reject the covenant with Christ will be in outer darkness - a spiritual death that is a complete and eternal separation from the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
So, in a way, the Catholic teaching is somewhat closer but still very far.  And that is because of the missing teaching on temple ordinances.  This exact same missing teaching is what causes Catholics and Protestants to argue endlessly over works vs. grace.

From an address concerning the evils of socialism given at BYU in 1977 by Ezra Taft Benson, who was then President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
“The chief weapon used by the federal government to achieve this “equality” is the system of transfer payments. This means that the federal governments collects from one income group and transfer payments to another by the tax system. These payments are made in the form of social security benefits, Medicare and Medicaid, and food stamps, to name a few. Today the cost of such programs has been going in the hole at the rate of 12 billion dollars a year; and, with increased benefits and greater numbers of recipients, even though the tax base has been increased we will have larger deficits in the future.
Today the party now in power is advocating and has support, apparently in both major parties, for a comprehensive national health insurance program—a euphemism for socialized medicine. Our major danger is that we are currently (and have been for forty years) transferring responsibility from the individual, local, and state governments to the federal government—precisely the same course that led to the economic collapse in Great Britain and New York City. We cannot long pursue the present trend without its bringing us to national insolvency.
Edmund Burke, the great British political philosopher, warned of the threat of economic equality. He said,
A perfect equality will indeed be produced—that is to say, equal wretchedness, equal beggary, and on the part of the petitioners, a woeful, helpless, and desperate disappointment. Such is the event of all compulsory equalizations. They pull down what is above; they never raise what is below; and they depress high and low together beneath the level of what was originally the lowest.“  (A Vsion and a Hope for the Youth of Zion, April, 12 1977)
 

By no means do I intend to single out any particular post but there are concepts I want to review concerning the general theology of the LDS or Mormons.  From time to time there are statements that seem to indicate that if divine revelation is lacking and missing for many scientific or other discoveries – we can ignore that and many other things.  The idea is that – if “There are no revelations” on a particular subject – we can interpret such as meaning that G-d and the church (the Saints of G-d) do not care what anybody thinks or purports on the subject.   I personally think this mentality is very closely related to the excuses of Laman and Lemual when they argued with Nephi – “G-d makes no such thing known to us.”  Nephi response is – “Have you enquired of the L-rd?”
We are admonished that if we lack understanding – rather than sit around and wait for an apostle or prophet to enlighten us – we should inquire of G-d (as did Joseph Smith).  But Oliver Cowdry learned, as recorded in the D&C that many things do not come just because we inquire concerning them.  We are told to study it out in our heart and mind.  To seek wisdom from the “best” books.  We are also told that it is a “wicked” and “perverse” generation that must be “commanded in all things”.  We are also told that “all things” denote that there is a G-d and testify of Christ.  I believe we will only understand this by utilizing our covenant concerning the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I interpret this admonishment as a key to our covenant to unleash the powers of the Holy Ghost where we can fulfill the promises made in Mormoni Chapter 10 and know the truth of all things.  Now, I want to add something – I am not sure that the purpose of such exercises is so we can put those less diligent in their place with the abundances of knowledge we have amassed but rather as a means to encourage, minister and lift others to seek understanding to their questions.  Again our scripture denote that generally if someone gets what they supposed to be a little authority (or might I add revelation?) that it is the nature of almost everybody to immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.  At this point I will leave to the reader to understand what is meant by unrighteous dominion.
 
The Traveler

I don’t believe that all of the same species that were on the earth at the time of Adam exist now and likewise not all that we have now existed then. I can’t name an example but I would imagine that new species emerge from time to time and of course species have gone extinct. 
I don't even try to make science and religion fit together but if I tried I’d have a hard time figuring out where species that existed before the time of Adam fit in. Not to mention early human like beings. 

She might benefit from learning the etymology for the word "man" or "men" or male and female (see also HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE)  
In short, the word "man" was derived from "humanus" or "homo" or "mann," meaning human being or mankind,  and began generically as meaning "person(s)"  or "earthly being" (as differentiated from  heavenly being") or of the "ground,"  or "one who thinks."
Eventually, the genders were distinguished using the pre-fix wo or wif (wo-man--, meaning person with stomach, or, female/femina, "she who suckles":),  and wer or guma or waepen (waepenmann--meaning male, or person with a weapon or penis).
Evidently, the gendered prefix for males was dropped and later became the prevailing meaning for "mann" or "man," though the generic meaning continues, thus causing confusion among those prone to identity politics, toxic feminism, and making "man" an offender for a word (pun intended).
Thanks, -Wade Englund-