Speaking with Spirits

[MrNirom]

I was watching a program last night that was about two children.. ages 12 and 14 who had the ability to see, feel, and communicate with those who have crossed over.

While I was inactive for 20 years.. I had several opportunities to visit with psychic mediums. In all honesty.. they do have that ability to speak with loved ones. And I have learned much about "the other side".

What my question is here.. is why do we think.. (that children who can be as young as 4 or like the two children I mentioned above).. that these children are given this ability?

From the program.. these children did not want or seek their "powers". But now that they had them.. they had to learn about them.. and what to do with them.

As a member of the Church.. do you know of anyone in the Church with these abilities. If so.. what does he/she do about it.. and what does the Church tell us? It seems to me to be more prevalent these days.

I can say from my experience.. that it has given me less faith.. and more knowledge.. that there is life after life. I have experienced first hand communication from my Mother and my ex wife and others who have cross over. Just wondering if anyone else has?

[bytor2112]

I often spoke with spirits when I was inactive, mainly Johnny Walker and Jack Daniels and a fellow named Bud Weiser.:lol::D:D

[utcowboy]

If I remember right we a cautioned about speaking with spirits, but I'll have to find the quote again.

[MrNirom]

I often spoke with spirits when I was inactive, mainly Johnny Walker and Jack Daniels and a fellow named Bud Weiser.:lol::D:D

I just knew there would be one in the crowd.. LOL

[Moksha]

"Eenie, meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak..."

- Bullwinkle Moose, Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, 1959

[prisonchaplain]

I was watching a program last night that was about two children.. ages 12 and 14 who had the ability to see, feel, and communicate with those who have crossed over.

While I was inactive for 20 years.. I had several opportunities to visit with psychic mediums. In all honesty.. they do have that ability to speak with loved ones. And I have learned much about "the other side".

What my question is here.. is why do we think.. (that children who can be as young as 4 or like the two children I mentioned above).. that these children are given this ability?

From the program.. these children did not want or seek their "powers". But now that they had them.. they had to learn about them.. and what to do with them.

As a member of the Church.. do you know of anyone in the Church with these abilities. If so.. what does he/she do about it.. and what does the Church tell us? It seems to me to be more prevalent these days.

I can say from my experience.. that it has given me less faith.. and more knowledge.. that there is life after life. I have experienced first hand communication from my Mother and my ex wife and others who have cross over. Just wondering if anyone else has?

My Old Testament reading suggests that I reject any efforts to communicate with spirits, with the dead, or any business with mediums, soothsayers, or fortune tellers. Such efforts rank amongst the worst of sins. I'm convinced that when such interactions are truly spiritual, they are not with the deceased loved ones, but with demonic pretenders. Any spiritual wisdom we need should come from God, not psychic or paranormal experiences.

[Heavenguard]

My Old Testament reading suggests that I reject any efforts to communicate with spirits, with the dead, or any business with mediums, soothsayers, or fortune tellers. ... I'm convinced that when such interactions are truly spiritual, they are not with the deceased loved ones, but with demonic pretenders. Any spiritual wisdom we need should come from God, not psychic or paranormal experiences.

Agreed, Prisonchaplain.

I dont doubt the ability to speak with spirits... there's been at least one exorcism done in my church where they spoke with the possessing spirit, but I don't believe that any of these speaking spirits are the ghosts of people past.

We would have to believe that ghosts continue to inhabit the Earth after the person's physical body dies ... what a crowded ghost world it must be! Or that these ghosts come and go from heaven or hell (or paradise and the grave, whatever floats your boat) as they so please. If one could simply escape hell, well ... who needs Jesus? And of leaving heaven, remember Jesus' parable about the Rich man and Lazarus.

The only remaining spirits would be God's angels, who would not be playing such silly games with humanity, or Satan's demons, out to deceive the world and those who would believe them.

[prospectmom]

It's a fine line to cross since Satan has the ability to fool and use this ....... My guideline is if it goes against my beliefs its a message from satan who is trying to fool me

[Jbs2763]

I often spoke with spirits when I was inactive, mainly Johnny Walker and Jack Daniels and a fellow named Bud Weiser.:lol::D:D

I spoke regularly with a gentleman named James Beam...and a spanish fellow named Jose

[PapilioMemnon]

The way to discern if something is of God or not is the learn to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit; this is an essential task we must learn or we will be deceived easily. The Holy Spirit is here to testify of truth and of things pertaining to God and righteousness, to be a comforter, and guide, ...

Look for patterns in the scriptures: Did you read anywhere about Jesus going to check about His life with any psychic or person with "familiar spirit?" Did he teach us that? Did any prophet teach that?

No, it's not of God, and I affirm this with conviction!

This is not the channel or way the Lord communicates with us; He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit and the prophets ONLY through the same Spirit. The Lord send messengers when something is expedient, not to please us. The angels who have visited throughout the Bible, BOM, and Joseph Smith were of God.

The Lord & prophets never taught us that we should seek someone with supposed or real ability to talk to spirits to know about our loved ones who passed way. Remember, whatever you got, even if it told you true things, remember the devil KNOWS all things, better than you and I do!

The ability to discern spirits is a gift from God:

D&C 46

23 And to others the adiscerning of spirits.

A few scriptures:

1 John 1

1 Beloved, believe not every aspirit, but btry the cspirits whether they are of God: because many dfalse prophets are gone out into the world.

D&C 50

1 Hearken, O ye elders of my church, and give ear to the avoice of the living God; and attend to the words of wisdom which shall be given unto you, according as ye have asked and are agreed as touching the church, and the bspirits which have gone abroad in the earth.

2 Behold, verily I say unto you, that there are many spirits which are false aspirits, which have gone forth in the earth, deceiving the world.

• • •

10 And now come, saith the Lord, by the Spirit, unto the elders of his church, and let us areason together, that ye may understand;

• • •

14 To preach my gospel by the aSpirit, even the bComforter which was sent forth to teach the truth.

15 And then received ye aspirits which ye could not understand, and received them to be of God; and in this are ye justified?

• • •

17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to apreach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he bpreach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? • • •

19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? • • •

21 Therefore, why is it that ye cannot understand and know, that he that receiveth the word by the aSpirit of truth receiveth it as it is preached by the Spirit of truth?

• • •

27 Wherefore, he is possessor of all things; for all things are asubject unto him, both in heaven and on the earth, the life and the light, the Spirit and the bpower, sent forth by the will of the Father through Jesus Christ, his Son.

• • •

30 But know this, it shall be given you what you shall aask; and as ye are appointed to the bhead, the spirits shall be subject unto you.

31 Wherefore, it shall come to pass, that if you behold a aspirit manifested that you cannot understand, and you receive not that spirit, ye shall ask of the Father in the name of Jesus; and if he give not unto you that spirit, then you may know that it is not of God.

32 And it shall be given unto you, apower over that spirit; and you shall proclaim against that spirit with a loud voice that it is bnot of God—

* Spiritual Experiences * Link: LDS.org - Topic Definition - Spiritual Experiences

The Apostle James taught that anyone can receive guidance from God: “If any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him” (James l: 5).

Spiritual influence begins with the Light of Christ, “the light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things” (D&C 88:13). This influence “is given to every man, that he may know good from evil” (Moroni 7:16; see also Moroni 7:14–19). The Light of Christ is a powerful influence for good; it is sometimes manifested as our conscience.

In addition to the Light of Christ is the Holy Ghost, who is a personage of spirit and a member of the Godhead. The Holy Ghost teaches and testifies of truth and can strengthen all honest seekers of the truth. The Holy Ghost and the Light of Christ lead people to Jesus Christ and His gospel.

A person is capable of receiving spiritual guidance before being baptized and confirmed. On the day of Pentecost, many individuals who were not members of the early Christian church felt the Holy Ghost.

Those who are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are given the gift of the Holy Ghost soon after they are baptized. This spiritual gift enables a faithful member of the Church to enjoy the companionship of the Holy Ghost as a constant blessing and guide.

A few talks:

Links: LDS.org - Ensign Article - “The Great Imitatorâ€

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Hearken Unto the Voice of God

* Sorcery/Spiritualism: Topical Guide: Sorcery

Gen. 41: 8 magicians of Egypt.

Ex. 7: 11 Pharaoh also called . . . sorcerers.

Ex. 22: 18 (Ex. 22: 16-20) not suffer a witch to live.

Lev. 19: 31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits.

Lev. 20: 6 soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits.

Deut. 18: 10 not be found among you . . . an enchanter.

Josh. 13: 22 soothsayer, did the children of Israel slay.

1 Sam. 28: 3 (2 Kgs. 23: 24) Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits.

2 Kgs. 17: 17 used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves.

2 Kgs. 23: 24 workers with familiar spirits . . . Josiah put away.

Isa. 2: 6 (2 Ne. 12: 6) soothsayers like the Philistines.

Isa. 8: 19 (Isa. 19: 3; 2 Ne. 18: 19) when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits.

Isa. 47: 13 Let now the astrologers . . . save thee.

Jer. 27: 9 hearken not . . . to your sorcerers.

Ezek. 12: 24 (Ezek. 13: 23) there shall be no more . . . flattering divination.

Dan. 1: 20 ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers.

Dan. 2: 27 cannot . . . the astrologers . . . shew unto the king.

Dan. 4: 7 came in the magicians, the astrologers.

Dan. 5: 15 astrologers . . . could not shew the interpretation.

Micah 5: 12 thou shalt have no more soothsayers.

Mal. 3: 5 (3 Ne. 24: 5) be a swift witness against the sorcerers.

Acts 8: 9 Simon . . . used sorcery.

Acts 13: 6 they found a certain sorcerer.

Acts 16: 16 brought her masters much gain by soothsaying.

Acts 19: 13 exorcists, took upon them . . . the name of the Lord.

Acts 19: 19 Many . . . used curious arts.

Rev. 9: 21 Neither repented they of their . . . sorceries.

Rev. 18: 23 by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

Rev. 21: 8 (D&C 63: 17) sorcerers . . . shall have their part in the lake.

Rev. 22: 15 without are dogs, and sorcerers.

Alma 1: 32 did indulge themselves in sorceries.

3 Ne. 21: 16 I will cut off witchcrafts.

Morm. 1: 19 there were sorceries.

D&C 28: 11 those things . . . from that stone are not of me.

D&C 46: 7 not be seduced by evil spirits.

D&C 50: 1 spirits which have gone abroad in the earth.

D&C 76: 103 they who are liars, and sorcerers.

* Surperstitions: Topical Guide: Superstitions

Gen. 30: 14 found mandrakes in the field.

Gen. 30: 39 flocks conceived before the rods.

Lev. 20: 2 giveth any of his seed unto Molech.

Deut. 18: 10 (2 Kgs. 21: 6) maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire.

1 Sam. 28: 7 (1 Chr. 10: 13) Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit.

Isa. 44: 19 shall I fall down to the stock of a tree.

Jer. 23: 21 not sent these prophets, yet they ran.

Ezek. 8: 9 behold the wicked abominations that they do.

Ezek. 13: 6 have seen vanity and lying divination.

Ezek. 22: 28 seeing vanity, and divining lies.

Dan. 1: 20 better than all the magicians and astrologers.

Dan. 2: 27 cannot the wise men, the astrologers . . . shew unto the king.

Hosea 4: 12 my people ask counsel at their stocks.

Micah 3: 7 Then shall . . . diviners confounded.

Acts 8: 9 Simon . . . used sorcery, and bewitched the people.

Acts 17: 22 ye are too superstitious.

Acts 25: 19 questions . . . of their own superstition.

1 Cor. 10: 20 Gentiles . . . sacrifice to devils.

3 Ne. 21: 16 cut off witchcrafts out of thy land.

D&C 28: 11 things . . . written from that stone are not of me.

All these things, superstitions, magicians, witchcraft, spiritualists, divination, astrologers, soothsayers, whatever name they are called... are all abominations to the Lord! All spirits that speak through them are NOT of GOD; it is NOT the Holy Spirit! Be not deceived, and do NOT seek those things!

2 Cor. 11: 13-15

13 For such are afalse apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for aSatan himself is transformed into an bangel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose aend shall be according to their works.

As PC said, it's one of the most serious sins, and it's abominable to God!

Be not deceived my friend... repent... learn the way God talks to us, learn the about the Holy Ghost... it's imperative that you learn the way of truth... leave those who has left their mortal probation in the Spiritual World where they are, do NOT seek people who can "talk" to them... it's not them, but evil spirits that mimic them, and they know things... Do not marvel they know!!!

There are countless examples in the Scriptures that talk about these things, and how abominable they are to God, and the Apostles went around also casting them out of people...

[bytor2112]

I spoke regularly with a gentleman named James Beam...and a spanish fellow named Jose

Ahh yes I remember those fellows well..... Jose could get me in lots of trouble:D

[hordak]

cold reading

[Moksha]

"Eenie, meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak..."

- Bullwinkle Moose, Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, 1959

Okay Moksha, I'm aware of your incantations trying to bring back Sgallan, but you forgot to add, "Bibbity, bobbity, boo!" Now, let's have none of that necromancy here. This is a respectable Mormon board.

[MrNirom]

So.. the picture I am getting from everyone.. is that these children with this ability.. are of satan.

No members of the church have this ability to see or speak with the other side. It is only given to "outsiders".

Is that correct?

[prisonchaplain]

So.. the picture I am getting from everyone.. is that these children with this ability.. are of satan.

No members of the church have this ability to see or speak with the other side. It is only given to "outsiders".

Is that correct?

Sinners are not "of Satan." Sin is of Satan. The children are being encouraged to develop "fortune telling" abilities...to traffic in demonic spirits.

From the biblical witness, the Christian response to encountering "the other side" is to rebuke the demons and command them to leave, in the name of Jesus.

[MrNirom]

Sinners are not "of Satan." Sin is of Satan. The children are being encouraged to develop "fortune telling" abilities...to traffic in demonic spirits.

Whoops.. if it sounded like I was saying the children were of Satan.. that is not what I meant. I meant the ability. Sorry.

[VisionOfLehi]

Some are gifted with the ability to see through the veil, IMO.

Children are much closer to the LORD than some of us (they were just there!)

I think it's natural that the veil is a little thinner for them.

But the ability to do it on command or at your own will? No, I don't believe in that.

[Misshalfway]

I watch those shows on tv and they are compelling. Sometimes I just looks like a big show and other times it looks convincing. I think there must be something going on that is, let's say, other worldly. But, I know enough about Satan to know that he love to play and puppet with people. Wouldn't he and his hosts know certain details about people's lives. What if it is actually him sending convincing messages? Or what if he knows that children are closer to God than anyone and what if their "abilities" are just being twisted and lured by his labels and mistruths about what is actually happening.

I think that if God wants to bring his world to ours, he is in control of when and where such happens. Clearly beings from that world can visit. Surely, the Spirit can comfort us about our loved ones. My very dear friend had a dream/vision concerning her daughter who was tragically killed. It was very specific and personal.

I think that Satan will take everything that is good about revelation and twist it for his purpose as he twists and turns and exploits.

[Islander]

Oh, no question that some of that stuff is real. Where I come from folks are into that stuff big time. My grandmother did not know much about it but she felt they were "disobedient spirits" entrenched in remaining on the earth trying to deal with humans when "their time was already up and their ticket called". In her eyes that was rebellion against The Father and we should stay away from that as far as we can. If you give Satan audience you give him power over you.

In the OT God commanded Israel to put away from the camp those witches and if they insisted on their craft to put them to death. I think God is serious about the issue. I do not pay any atention to those programs. I prefer The History Channel.

[jimuk]

My Old Testament reading suggests that I reject any efforts to communicate with spirits, with the dead, or any business with mediums, soothsayers, or fortune tellers. Such efforts rank amongst the worst of sins. I'm convinced that when such interactions are truly spiritual, they are not with the deceased loved ones, but with demonic pretenders. Any spiritual wisdom we need should come from God, not psychic or paranormal experiences.

I am 100% with prisonchaplain on this one, and the church is against it, these demons know everything about us and our families.

I am sure that my loved ones who have moved on would not have time to come back to entertain the troops, so to speak, i am sure that some of these so called spiritualists do think they are doing good, but i am sure that they have not studied any of the bible or they would know it is a bad thing.

This kind of deceit probably the easiest way to guide good people away from god, but hold fast and you will not only be speaking to your loved ones but i am sure you will be hugging them also.

Edited July 3, 2008 by jimuk

[MrNirom]

I suppose for many people.. who have never "experienced" such things.. it is easy to conjure up all kinds of images of what is being done and said.

I am not trying to convince anybody here to change the way they feel about it.. but let me give you "my" experience.

My son was accused by his step sister of having intercourse with her. He was 17.. she was 11. He told me.. Dad.. I did not do this. What more could he say? The Government determined in a secret grand jury that he did have sex with her. They set his bail at 1 million dollars. A year later (yes he was in jail the entire time) he had his trial. This child said he did it with her 35 - 40 times in a two year period. She did not give a date that it happened nor a particular weekend nor was she required to. In other words.. there was no way that my son could establish an alibi. It was.. his word versus her word.

All I had was his word. He said no.. I did not do it.. she said yes.. you did. This is in a house of 2 adults and 6 children.. and nobody ever saw anything.

How could I really know if my son was lying or not? In my mind.. I was told "he didn't do it."

I then went to two psychic mediums. A gal by the name of Laurie McQuary. She has appeared on psychic detectives many times. She has helped the police solve many cases. I went to her... and she told me exactly who did it.. that my son did not.. she told me where this person lived.. everything. She also told me that this little girl was exaggerating and adding more to her story to get the attention of her mother.

I went to another medium.. (I did not tell either of these mediums why I was there) She connected with my ex wife. The medium said to me.. I have a woman here who is telling me.. it's not my son.. it's not my son. She then went on to explain that my son has been accused of crime he did not commit. She told me that this other person was close to my son, did it.. but that it was not my son.

Now I had 3 different sources that told me he was innocent. Yet, he was convicted and sentenced to 12 years.. no probation allowed nor no time off for good behavior. That was 4 years ago. The jury simply believed her story. His story was: "I didn't do it".

Now.. some people will say.. Yea.. God did the right thing by putting your son away. If he got convicted.. he must be guilty. God's justice is good.

I had the proof I needed to know he was innocent. I gave this info to the police.. but they felt they had their man.. and would do nothing. I could not prove a thing. I still today know that he is innocent.. and there are people who don't believe me.

Mediums tell me it is like a water faucet in their mind. They open the faucet.. and the messages come pouring out. To have their mind quieted.. they "turn off" the faucet.

So personally.. I believe people do have the ability to do this. But I am sure that God does not want us spending our time pursuing this.. as it as no value in our salvation. Me learning what I did.. did nothing for me on an eternal level. And like most things.. we humans have the ability to "obsess" with many things. It is easier.. to go to a medium.. and hear something from the other side.. than getting on our knees and praying.

There are many things that are real and are of God.. that go on in the background. ie.. Guardian Angels. We all talk about them.. believe in them.. but are not told much about them.. Like who they are.. why they do what they do.. etc. There are many things that Joseph Smith said that he was not allowed to tell us about.. Things that we did not need to know about.. yet they were still real and there.

I no longer visit mediums. But I can not deny what I have learned from them.. It is just more information I received on things that don't really play an important part in my salvation. Kinda like knowing that Jesus Christ created worlds without end. We only see and hear about our world.. and are told not to concern ourselves with all the others as their existence is not relevant to us. It is information we have..but in no way does it affect our salvation by either knowing about it.. or not knowing about it.

But Satan can easily convince people to "believe" more in the mediums that in the spirit of the Holy Ghost. And there is where lies the deception. That is his "hook" to be deceived. We know that Satan does divulge truth.. to capture. Teach a little truth here.. a little there.. and so he allows the truth to be taught through the mediums. The more you listen to the mediums.. the more you believe.. the more you believe.. the easier at some point in time to be deceived. Is that not what we believe about all the other churches? They have "some" truth.. just not all. That there is a little truth here and a little truth there. People from other religions feel the Spirit of the Holy Ghost testify to them. What is he testifying to? The truth that is being taught at that time.. right?

Is that not what non-Mormons claim about us anyway? They too feel that we have been deceived by Satan and have been blinded by our faith by believing in a "seer", a "revelator", named Joseph Smith? A man who saw and talked to Historical and Biblical people who are "dead". The parallel is amazing.

So I do understand the warnings... and I do heed them. :)

Edited July 3, 2008 by MrNirom

[jimuk]

MrNirom, after reading your above post i took a look at your profile and i feel you have had so many trials and more than your fair share of hurt and suffering, you have a beautiful family.

I wish i had half the strength you must have to be able push on with your love for your father in heaven, He loves you so so much.

I know this with a surety, he holds a special place for all of us in his heart.

[Traveler]

There are two kinds of spirits. There are spirits of light and there are unclean spirits of darkness. A spirit of light can only be expressed through a uniquely prepared (repentant) holy individual. Anciently, such repentant and holy individuals were called prophets, seers and revelators. Such expressions of spirits of light have not changed even in our day and age. A prophet never was or never will be educated and endowed with degrees in a university to qualify them to receive and pass on any light from a spirit of light.

It is now and always has been the purpose of unclean spirits to beguile those that they influence and that will receive their voice. Therefore all that speak with spirits are known by their fruits for an unclean tree (unprepared individual) cannot and will not produce holy and enlightening fruit.

The Traveler

[WANDERER]

Ummm...I'd avoid any kind of interest in spirits....excepting the Holy Spirit.

[Moksha]

Ummm...I'd avoid any kind of interest in spirits....excepting the Holy Spirit.

It is always best to avoid those liquid spirits, unless of course you are trapped in a blizzard and a friendly St. Bernard happens by with a keg of brandy strapped to its neck. In that case, I say it would be good to pull the snifter out of your rucksack and share a toast. :)