You're single because....

[estradling75]

6 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

You know i love the fact that this topic is an evergreen and that your ki d of comment kmplies that it is wrong to express opinions and experiences and therefore wishing to discourage the chance  and ambitio that common sense might settle through reflection of what can be done better amd where is the root source. But since we are here, what is your "politicaly correct "way discussing this, since experiences and the exchange of thereof is so unsavory?

Not at all...  You can make all the comments you want (within the limits of the site rules)

But then you have to allow others the same privilege...  

So if you feel free to imply that the church is a horrible place to find a spouse... You should fully expect those that found the church to be an awesome place to find a spouse challenge your statement.

You don't get to be free to express your own opinion and then turn around and complain about others doing exactly the same just because they disagree with you and point out the flaws in your reasoning and logic.

 

[mordorbund]

4 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

you do realize temple worthiness is for most people a piece of paper that allows them to go there after they lied to their respective bishops and stake presidents

That is not my experience with "most" members I meet in the temple.

[SilentOne]

4 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

well, thank the Lord for agency. That is indeed your personal choice and I congratulate on known what you want. you do realize temple worthiness is for most people a piece of paper that allows them to go there after they lied to their respective bishops and stake presidents if they happen to give in to the pressure of expectation ? I would rather go for the one who honestly says he isn´t worthy and not lying about it. but hey, whatever works for you. I can only say, the temple recommend in the ideal case is still no indication for a good character or a match of personalities

That's a temple recommend. Temple worthiness involves living so that you get the paper without lying. During the course of the courtship, my knowledge of their actual worthiness should improve, especially when combined with prayerful consideration as to whether we should marry.

[Hemisphere]

3 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

That is not my experience with "most" members I meet in the temple.

location, location, location

[SilentOne]

4 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

well, thank the Lord for agency. That is indeed your personal choice and I congratulate on known what you want. you do realize temple worthiness is for most people a piece of paper that allows them to go there after they lied to their respective bishops and stake presidents if they happen to give in to the pressure of expectation ? I would rather go for the one who honestly says he isn´t worthy and not lying about it. but hey, whatever works for you. I can only say, the temple recommend in the ideal case is still no indication for a good character or a match of personalities

That's a temple recommend. Temple worthiness involves living so that you get the paper without lying. During the course of the courtship, my knowledge of their actual worthiness should improve, especially when combined with prayerful consideration as to whether we should marry.

[Hemisphere]

3 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

That's a temple recommend. Temple worthiness involves living so that you get the paper without lying. During the course of the courtship, my knowledge of their actual worthiness should improve, especially when combined with prayerful consideration as to whether we should marry.

last time I recalled the Lord is the only judge whose opinion is worth and matters. After all judgement is his prerogative. You can however like or dislike his interpretation of faith which hopefully aligns with yours.

[NeuroTypical]

8 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

you do realize temple worthiness is for most people a piece of paper that allows them to go there after they lied to their respective bishops 

Wait, what?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

you do realize temple worthiness is for most people a piece of paper that allows them to go there after they lied to their respective bishops and stake presidents if they happen to give in to the pressure of expectation

I feel sorry for you. That kind of jaded perspective and hatred for people you go to church with can't make for a very happy life.

[Hemisphere]

13 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Not at all...  You can make all the comments you want (within the limits of the site rules)

But then you have to allow others the same privilege...  

So if you feel free to imply that the church is a horrible place to find a spouse... You should fully expect those that found the church to be an awesome place to find a spouse challenge your statement.

You don't get to be free to express your own opinion and then turn around and complain about others doing exactly the same just because they disagree with you and point out the flaws in your reasoning and logic.

 

Well, then. I am glad we talked about it.

Oh I found my wife in the church but if you were dating in Europe, you would see where we all are coming from, especially being converts. So, not everything is provided what is so easily available in the US ( saying there is no single wards, commitiess and weekly events. if you are lucky you have the same annual evens, where you meet the same people that fell through the cracks ) 

I welcome a different opinion. A healthy discourse makes quite the mental spice. And where is a negative experience with a free opinion flawed and has to be logical when it is entirely based on emotions ? 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Hemisphere

[Hemisphere]

12 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I feel sorry for you. That kind of jaded perspective and hatred for people you go to church with can't make for a very happy life.

I don´t know you and you don´t me, so I hope your conjecture may be subject to trial and error. I am a very content person with a happy marriage and a good deal of experience that were dearly obtained in a world that seems to be star spangled awesome because apparently the people have no claim to negative experiences that couldn´t possibly happen in the US and especially in Utah, our beacon of faith... 

You know, people can be happy AND cynical at the same time. So whatever else you may think of me, you are way off =) oh and let me add that your pittance is simply belittling someone who has a different experience than you have. Would you like me to scorn you because ... in a sense I should "angry" that you have an unjaded view ? I think not. Have an opinion of your own. That is somewhat of an achievement that some never manage. And I am glad for it that some say as they like. 

So... please carry on having interesting ideas about my life

Edited August 4, 2016 by Hemisphere

[Guest]

Indeed you don't know me and the difficulty and trials I've had. Nor do you know every faithful Saint who strives to be temple worthy, and honestly answers the questions at their interviews. You assume much and do them injustice.  (Certainly there are some, but you act like every other member of the church that isn't you and your wife is a dirty lying fake.)

That brand of cynicism has a seething anger just under the surface that you may not recognize, but it's like a cancer. I don't know of anyone so full of judgment and distrust that is particularly happy. But if you manage to be both at once, I guess congratulations?

[estradling75]

7 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

I welcome a different opinion. A healthy discourse makes quite the mental spice. And where is a negative experience with a free opinion flawed and has to be logical when it is entirely based on emotions ? 

It doesn't... however an opinion when shared is evaluated by those to whom it is shared.  If such a opinion is found to be hypocritical, judgemental, irrational or whatever then those who heard it can then respond accordingly.      Of course too many people demand that we hear and accept their opinions as fact, truth, and protected speech... And anyone that dares disagree with them is a bully, is hurtful and should stay silent...  They want all the rights but none of the obligations that are necessary to support that right

 

 

[Hemisphere]

oh don´t get me wrong, I am as much as subject to flaws as is my wife. As a matter of fact, it is interesting to see what happens when I answer truthfully about topics that most would do well to answer in a pleasing way, as it so happens. I am more surprised to still have my temple recommend which I want to add, don´t think is something I consider myself deserving of. ... did I just say that ? well, yes. I am scoundrel and a big jerk. it is just is too much trouble too form a pretense about it.

And yes, since I don´t know you, I don´t have an incling what  to say about you and frankly it matters little and frankly I for one don´t even take offense. I just simply consider this an exchange where I gain some more insight.

Thank you. I can appreciate that. However, I said content. I am rather content than happy. Because happiness is fleeting. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Hemisphere

[Hemisphere]

7 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

It doesn't... however an opinion when shared is evaluated by those to whom it is shared.  If such a opinion is found to be hypocritical, judgemental, irrational or whatever then those who heard it can then respond accordingly.      Of course too many people demand that we hear and accept their opinions as fact, truth, and protected speech... And anyone that dares disagree with them is a bully, is hurtful and should stay silent...  They want all the rights but none of the obligations that are necessary to support that right

 

 

ah ? are you implying something. Please don´t beat around the bush. I am a big boy, I am sure I can take it. Just call the child by its name if you want me to be silent and think of me as a bully; put it out in the open where it is quite comfortable. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Hemisphere

[estradling75]

6 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

ah ? are you implying something. Please don´t beat around the bush. I am a big boy, I am sure I can take it. Just call the child by its name if you want me to be silent and think of me as a bully; put it out in the open where it is quite comfortable. 

What I ask. is that you live the golden rule.   And that you expect to reap what you sow.   If you want to make offensive comments and judgments about the church and it members. (based on your highly subjective personal experience) then you should expect and strong and spirited challenge of your opinions and ideas.. 

If you can not handle such a strong and spirited challenge, then you should not provoke it.

[Hemisphere]

well here is the thing, I don´t call people by names. Heck I even think it is quite interesting what comes my way, and frankly I take it with a good sense of humor ( which I can highly recommend , after all, why so serious ? ) 

see the thing about an offensive comment is that it usually is the rebound for a comment made first. And if it offensive to point out that some things go wrong where they shouldn´t and where you one does not only sugar coat but points it out, then I am actually very offensive. See, if you and your strong and spirited challengers want to rally for an assault on the evil "unhappy" cynical person. do whatever makes you happy. =) I just know I can let this stand and easily walk away. can you ? besides, since you are implying that you are righteous and I am not and that apparantly I lack spirit for speaking my mind, I can´t but help to feel exhilaration for all the things you don´t say while mincing words. You honestly really don´t hope that I take personal offense in this, do you ? I mean, I would like to point out that this is the internet and most people would not say things into my face in life or anyone else face for that matter because it is so convenient to fire a message off and condemn people with a different opinion. 

so... what exactly do you want to achieve, silence me for my expression or threatening me to be a more happy poster of uplifting messages ? I could honestly not tell. you know, it was actually all relaxed until you made your denigrating remark about peoples opinion to this topic... so wonder did I really provoke anything ? I certainly don´t put stock into peoples judgements about myself that wont do it to my face =)  

[SilentOne]

7 hours ago, Carborendum said:

 Besides, my wife is head and shoulders above them all.  Literally, she is taller than all the others I dated...

That is quite a lot taller. Did you end up marrying very far above yourself?

[estradling75]

1 hour ago, Hemisphere said:

see the thing about an offensive comment is that it usually is the rebound for a comment made first.

That is exactly my point...  If you can't finish it then don't start it.

 

1 hour ago, Hemisphere said:

 I just know I can let this stand and easily walk away. can you ?

You haven't walked yet...   Neither have I but I have walked away from conversations in the very forum.. so yes I know I can.

 

1 hour ago, Hemisphere said:

 besides, since you are implying that you are righteous and I am not and that apparantly I lack spirit for speaking my mind,

Cite your source.  I have not made any judgement about your righteousness nor did I intend to infer any...  But it is always possible that I chose my words poorly and did not properly convey what I meant.  A citation will point out the area of misunderstanding and allow me to clarify/apologies as necessary.

 

1 hour ago, Hemisphere said:

so... what exactly do you want to achieve, silence me for my expression or threatening me to be a more happy poster of uplifting messages ? I could honestly not tell. you know, it was actually all relaxed until you made your denigrating remark about peoples opinion to this topic... so wonder did I really provoke anything ? I certainly don´t put stock into peoples judgements about myself that wont do it to my face =)  

I have told you exactly what I hope to achieve twice now.  Here is the third time. You have explicitly and repeated attacked the members of the church in your "opinions."  Yet you seem to think you are the "offended party" because you have a right to your opinion.   You have been allowed to share that opinion... But don't expect it to be unchallenged, or for people to buy into the the myth that you are trying to sell that you didn't start it.

[Hemisphere]

well then, lets make you happy then. you don´t provide your source, you are as vague as it can get. second, I don´t know where you think to take your authority to judge me, mr. moderator. I certainly hope it doesn´t stem from that, because it will make me snort out my milk. 

As for your righteous desire to fight evil, I recommend the purchase of a ghost trap, you may want to call your local ghostbuster branch, I think if you buy two, a proton pack may be included for the price of one and if it is a good day, you may get some holy water on top with the option on sharpened stakes, dipped in concentrated garlic. It may or may not help to have me banished into the nether realm of online villains.  

I have explicitly stated my opinions and provided a glimpse into my experience. The only person raising a fuss, is you. And last time I checked they did not create the calling of Online Guardian of the faith against dissenters and evildoers...  you do realize I am not even taking you series at all since you mentioned your league of strong spirit supporters = you crack me up) seriously though, how arrogant of you to claim that you are "fighting" me on the behalf of every 15 million church members, never mind that it is a triviality that you produce yourself in the manner you do to "stick" it to me. You are right, I am not the offended party. I am actually the amused party now. Ah man, may day was rough but that cheered me right up, for that I really have to thank you. 

Listen, if you have so much belly ache about my statements , here is the phone number and email of my bishop. Bishop Chardon

+31 45 751 78 37

[email protected]

he will probably lend you a sympathetic ear if you are so eager to defend the faith from someone like me. It should make you happy to complain about my evil conduct while having a great conversation with this awesome person. Heck if you are really lucky, I get paddled in the bishops room with a large cricket club and we might post you the welts. That should make you happy in your desire for retribution =) for all my irresponsibility. Maybe if you throw in the word heretic, they may prepare a steak for me... oh wait I meant stake. And burn me painfully alive so that your thirst for online justice gets quenched.

What I am going to do now, is make me a tasty farmersbread toast baked over with ham, tomato and gouda cheese ( ideal chease to bake things over, due to the nature of its medium melting point in the microwave) and then I will count some sheep and will do my best to engage into my sleep into guilt ridden nightmares to appease your offended sense of righteousness. 

( notice how I take that with humor ? I apologize if you took offense but frankly I think you seriously should overthink the way you want to convey things while really NOT talking for  and representing the rest of the global membership of the church. However, you might wanna look beyond the edge of your plate and try to give some merit to some peoples experiences it is not like where you are from, elsewhere and you put that in question with your comment and that was actually offending because it belittles my experiences and threatening me with a "spirited" strong supporters ... really ? online? the worst thing is that I get deleted but I am still out there and it didn´t change a thing for you . I appreciate that you want to stand up for others but don´t waste it on a scoundrel like me, there is bigger fish to fry and worthier to stand up against. You should lighten up. it is the internet, seriously. If you were here I ma sure we would enjoy a good cup of tea together and I cook something nice, It just had not your desired effect on me, do try to emphatize with things you don´t like, it makes for a strong soul. )  

have good night.

 

(ps, do call my bishop and see what he says, he really might admonish me but he is a delight to talk to) 

[estradling75]

5 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

well then, lets make you happy then. you don´t provide your source, you are as vague as it can get. second, I don´t know where you think to take your authority to judge me, 

Nor did you cite your source... but you still make your claims as well..

It is clear this is going no where...  So this is me walking away.

Good night

 

 

[mordorbund]

17 hours ago, Hemisphere said:

location, location, location

Please clarify, are you saying your experience of people lying to receive a temple recommend is common throughout Germany? or do you mean only in the particular ward you're in?

Also, are you in a ward or a branch? Stake or district?

[Hemisphere]

Since you are asking, I do mean the Frankfurt Temple in Germany. I know a lot of people who simply basing on their deeds could possibly not pass if they were honest. And yes, come on, you really think people wanna give themselves the embarrassment of flunking their temple interview ? =) right. 

Anyway, yes! I am actually saying that a lot of people in the church in Germany are not truthful about a lot of things. There are good people of course and I met a fraction of them but mostly it is quite hard to find them since there is so few of them. I make this a personal statement to minimize the outrage. So I point out, that my experience with the people in Germany could have easily spoiled the fun of being a convert.

My ward is fine, the people thy hard to do their best and our bishop works hard so what he can with good faith and an honest recommendation forward us to the stake president. I am now attending in a Dutch ward close to the border to Germany in the Antwerpes stake. Lovely ward actually, you would love it everyone is welcome and we lack multi generational drama. Going on sundays is balm for the soul. 

[Hemisphere]

Nope, it doesn´t limit to any ward. That happens pretty much all over in Germany. My current ward is fine, it is also Dutch. ( not say that the Dutch don´t have their respective struggels) .

 

Ward. I am in a ward and I mentionend already that this ward belongs to the antwerpes stake

[NeedleinA]

 

17 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

Frankfurt Temple in Germany...
I am now attending in a Dutch ward

I lived for several years in the Netherlands and attended a Dutch Ward. The Frankfurt temple was my temple growing up. I never had any issues with any members and we were actually really tight. I spent years with translation head phones on during Sacrament meetings. A Dutch brother would sit in a sound booth each week and would translate for everyone with head phones on. We did Temple trips, YM & YW activities, Ward dinners, etc. I meet my wife there too. I do remember many testimonies about forgiveness as Dutch members still struggled with the effects of World War II.

I always enjoy this video about the Dutch and German members.

 

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by NeedleinA

[mordorbund]

18 hours ago, Hemisphere said:

I welcome a different opinion. A healthy discourse makes quite the mental spice. And where is a negative experience with a free opinion flawed and has to be logical when it is entirely based on emotions ? 

@NeedleinA has provided a different opinion. Mine is not as powerful as his, but I'll add it to the mix as well. The level of deception you're talking about (where "most" temple recommend holders lie to pass the interview) requires bishop or branch president to either be in on it or incompetent. And the only times I hear such stories (reliably) it is either in a district (hence, why I ask) where the churches don't have the full functionality and training of stakes, or it is an individual case that gets corrected within 5 years.

I'll add another differing opinion to the mix. A poster from Germany shared his own experience with a trustworthy ward.

59 minutes ago, Hemisphere said:

My ward is fine, the people thy hard to do their best and our bishop works hard so what he can with good faith and an honest recommendation forward us to the stake president. I am now attending in a Dutch ward close to the border to Germany in the Antwerpes stake. Lovely ward actually, you would love it everyone is welcome and we lack multi generational drama. Going on sundays is balm for the soul. 

Admittedly, this witness isn't the most reliable, as he seems to carry some prejudice against Germans generally. Reading the rest of the post, his ward is fine, but all others are corrupt. To my mind doesn't sound much different from "I can't stand <people from race> because they are <some evil stereotype>. Not you of course, and I can't name any in particular that I actually know, but <race> is <stereotype>."