Marriage With[out] the Covenant

[Guest Lexish]

I am currently dating a non-member. I want to disregard all other circumstances and just consider what consequences this alone would have if we were to get married. We have been talking a little about it lately (read: tonight). One thing I realized is that I could not think of a single mixed-religion couple (or, as in this case, religious + non-religious person) where there were not immense problems for the family.

Please, does anyone know of a mixed religion couple wherein things worked out well and they were happy and could raise children without too much conflict? Please do not tell me what I already know, which is that these relationships are difficult. I know. What I do not know is how common they really are or how often they work well.

Thanks.

[gabelpa]

We have about 10 mixed-faith couple in our branch of ~50 families. Only one of them comes to church, usually it is the LDS spouse that bows to the pressures of the non-LDS. The children grow up not knowing what to believe, though they may develop a stronger testimony than a non-mixed faith couple.

Do you want to risk the Eternal Life of your children?

[talisyn]

We have about 10 mixed-faith couple in our branch of ~50 families. Only one of them comes to church, usually it is the LDS spouse that bows to the pressures of the non-LDS. The children grow up not knowing what to believe, though they may develop a stronger testimony than a non-mixed faith couple.

Do you want to risk the Eternal Life of your children?

bolded by me

I've noticed that too, why do you suppose that is? I think it's because the LDS usually has a more eternal perspective, kind've figuring the temple work will be done in this life one way or the other.

[AliciaB]

I am a member, and my husband is not a member, nor is he religious. We have four wonderful children that I share the gospel with, my husband doesn't stop me or tell them that it's all rubbish, but he doesn't say it's true either. Even though he doesn't believe yet, he still comes with us every Sunday and to any ward activities, he does this for our children, and because he has made some great friends in our ward. Our bishop calls him a dry mormon, although he hasn't been baptized or live by the WoW he is worthy in every other way.

I've only been a member for a year, so I am still praying that my husband will gain a testimony and one day want to be baptized. I have faith that one day he will, which is why I am waiting to go to the temple, when I go I want my husband to come with me.

Our family is happy, and there is no conflict because my husband can see the blessings being a member offers and is more than happy for our children to be raised in the church. If the man you are dating is respectful of your beliefs and has no faith in any religion then it may workout, have you asked him if he would be happy for you to raise yours and his future children in the church?

Alicia.

[Guest]

We have about 10 mixed-faith couple in our branch of ~50 families. Only one of them comes to church, usually it is the LDS spouse that bows to the pressures of the non-LDS. The children grow up not knowing what to believe, though they may develop a stronger testimony than a non-mixed faith couple.

Do you want to risk the Eternal Life of your children?

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with this statement. Eternal life is not gained by the membership status of the parents. It is gained by each and everyone's own choices.

I was a devout Catholic and my husband was an inactive LDS when we got married. I know of a lot of other people who are in mixed marriages.

What made it work for me and my husband is our view of marriage itself as a once-in-a-lifetime covenant and the strength of our love for each other. You don't have to be LDS to have this. I have complete respect for my husband and would never undermine his beliefs (or lack thereof) neither will he undermine my own beliefs. We did agree that before we have children, we will have to agree on a "primary" religion in the family - that is, the religion that our children will be raised in with support from both parents (as in, if we decided to raise our children Catholic, my husband will have to support it - he doesn't have to be Catholic, he just has to be careful about saying/doing anti-Catholic things and the like).

As a matter of fact, you can be married in the Catholic church even if you're jewish or atheist or LDS as long as you agree to raise the children Catholic.

I'm LDS now. My husband's testimony was unshakeable even if he was inactive and I started to gain a testimony of the gospel as the LDS knows it...

I have another Catholic friend who is married to an LDS. The children are all Catholic, the LDS husband is inactive and his wife would cream him if he even steps inside an LDS ward or let a home teacher inside the house. The husband is very unhappy and they are constantly fighting. The only reason they are not divorced is because Catholics and LDS both don't believe in divorce as an answer. This is an example of how one party completely disrespects the other person. It is not limited to religion. It is symptomatic of a lack of respect that permeats the entire relationship manifested in the easily recognizable disrespect for personal beliefs.

What I'm trying to say is, if your partner cannot accept your personal beliefs and vice versa, you have a problem bigger than just your differing religious orientation.

Edited April 25, 2009 by anatess

[Gwen]

i am not saying this is everyone, but just the ppl i know.....

the religious and non-religious couples i've known, some have been "happy" that way (i put happy in quotes cause the religious is always hoping in the back of their mind that the non-religious will join them). the non religious doesn't fuss or prevent and may even support them going to church and taking the kids.

however, i know of very very few of the kids from those relationships being active. even in the few cases i know of where the non religious has eventually decided to join the church it was to late for the kids. almost all of them have great kids, by the world's standards you could not have more wonderful members of society, just not religious. as far as the family goes they were good homes. however, not homes that will send kids on missions and to the temple for marriage.

i suggest you do some serious prayer, read your patriarchal blessing again (if you don't have one i suggest you focus on getting one prior to making the decision to marry), be honest with yourself disregarding the "in love" feelings as much as you can. marriage is hard how will you feel about this particular issue when it gets that way?

also does he fully understand what it means to be non religious supporting an lds family? that is a big deal, lds are very involved in their church, it demands a lot from you. weekly activities for the youth, callings, 3 or more hours on sunday, sat and sun for general conf twice a yr, youth conferences, scout camps, costly missions, missing your children's weddings if they do make it to the temple....... things he has the right to know and weigh before marriage as well.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Gwen

[prospectmom]

Do you want to risk the Eternal Life of your children?

A bit harsh and also not at all fiting in with Gods plan....

I live in a household where I am active my hubby was baptized as a child but has neve gone much since........ He suppots me I support him... We love each other... yes sometimes it is hard but it is what it is.

[skippy740]

I am currently dating a non-member. I want to disregard all other circumstances and just consider what consequences this alone would have if we were to get married. We have been talking a little about it lately (read: tonight). One thing I realized is that I could not think of a single mixed-religion couple (or, as in this case, religious + non-religious person) where there were not immense problems for the family.

Please, does anyone know of a mixed religion couple wherein things worked out well and they were happy and could raise children without too much conflict? Please do not tell me what I already know, which is that these relationships are difficult. I know. What I do not know is how common they really are or how often they work well.

Thanks.

You have a case of "confirmation bias". You want to be told how it CAN work - despite the evidence that you know of to the contrary.

Personally, I've never cared for statistics of the mass public. It's all about the decisions you and he make together. Nothing else matters.

The real question is: What kind of marriage do you want? Will you have that kind of marriage with the man you're seeing?

[NeuroTypical]

What I do not know is how common they really are or how often they work well.

I've met maybe a dozen or so part-member couples. The one that your post brings to mind is a couple in my ward. The lady is a member, the hubby is not. I've met him a few times, he's a nice guy, a friendly guy. He seems to be a good father to his kids. But he really has an issue with his kids spending too much time with us crazy mormons. She has struggled to stay active and keep her kids going to church. Now that her kids are 12 and 13, she's struggling to keep her kids interested in church. They'd rather be spending their Sundays off having fun with Dad.

I'll never forget when she was in the temple prep class with me. We mormons don't usually design a class on Sunday to try to make people run out of it sobbing, but that's what happened to her. I guess all of that talk about how she and her kids might not have their dad with them, finally got to her.

Anyway, all marriages have ups and downs - theirs just happens to be out in the open where everyone can see it. I would consider them an answer to your question. They're an intact family unit - that's what "works well" looks like for them.

Choose well.

LM

[applepansy]

My father grew up in a member/nonmember home. He was the only one born under the convenant. (He as a menopause baby....the next youngest was 12 years old when he was born.)

He is the only active member of the church in his family, other than his parents before they died.

Even if the nonmember or other religion spouse eventually joins the church the children live through the conflict, and there are consequences. However, there are the same consequences for couples who are LDS and one is inactive.

applepansy

[Guest missingsomething]

I am currently dating a non-member. I want to disregard all other circumstances and just consider what consequences this alone would have if we were to get married. We have been talking a little about it lately (read: tonight). One thing I realized is that I could not think of a single mixed-religion couple (or, as in this case, religious + non-religious person) where there were not immense problems for the family.

Please, does anyone know of a mixed religion couple wherein things worked out well and they were happy and could raise children without too much conflict? Please do not tell me what I already know, which is that these relationships are difficult. I know. What I do not know is how common they really are or how often they work well.

Thanks.

I see you have gotten some really harsh comments, in my opinion, trying to scare you out of this relationship. Meanwhile, I think are you trying to find a reason to stay in it.

My best advice to you: Pray about it. IF you are supposed to marry this man, if it will be the best thing for you - then the Lord WILL LET YOU KNOW THIS. IF you do not get a firm answer of yes, then your answer is NO. ONLY the LORD and YOU can decide if this is best for you.

Why am I qualified to tell you this?

I am a part-member family. I joined the church at 13. I met my husband during an inactive period (my only inactive period) and pursuing our relationship actually made me more determined to become active again. HOWEVER...... I made it extremely clear to my husband what I needed from him to marry him. I needed him to support me, allow me to bring the church into our home, and to raise my children in my faith until they were of an age to decide for themselves. He does go to sacrament with me once our girls were born. He says he does not pray (but Ive personally caught him doing it), does not really believe in the bible (so he says, but his actions speak differently), and he has taken the discussions...3 times, but still says he just doesnt buy it. But he supports the girls and I in our activities and the girls and I have FHE, read kiddo scriptures, etc. Occassionally he has participated. Is it all perfect and wonderful? No, because I know the blessings I am missiong out on and I know how much stronger our relationship could be if it were of the covenant. And I know my children can not be sealed to me. I married my husband believing 110% that he would join the church if I was patient. Weve been together for 9 yrs and married this Sept for 7. So far - no go- but he is so very diff. than he was when I met him. And many members (we have a ward that is a revolving door --new people all the time) do not know he is not a member - he is what many have called a dry mormon.

Dont look for excuses to stay. Dont make your life and relationship more complicated than it has to be.... And dont be neive enough to think that just because you marry someone in the convenant they are worthy and you will have a great marriage. Only way you are going to make a decision that will leave you happy- is to pray. Much better to hurt now before children are involved, your life is built together ... and then you realize it was a mistake.

[Guest missingsomething]

I am a member, and my husband is not a member, nor is he religious. We have four wonderful children that I share the gospel with, my husband doesn't stop me or tell them that it's all rubbish, but he doesn't say it's true either. Even though he doesn't believe yet, he still comes with us every Sunday and to any ward activities, he does this for our children, and because he has made some great friends in our ward. Our bishop calls him a dry mormon, although he hasn't been baptized or live by the WoW he is worthy in every other way.

I've only been a member for a year, so I am still praying that my husband will gain a testimony and one day want to be baptized. I have faith that one day he will, which is why I am waiting to go to the temple, when I go I want my husband to come with me.

Our family is happy, and there is no conflict because my husband can see the blessings being a member offers and is more than happy for our children to be raised in the church. If the man you are dating is respectful of your beliefs and has no faith in any religion then it may workout, have you asked him if he would be happy for you to raise yours and his future children in the church?

Alicia.

One difference - you were not a member when you married your husband. Just a thought.

[Guest missingsomething]

bolded by me

I've noticed that too, why do you suppose that is? I think it's because the LDS usually has a more eternal perspective, kind've figuring the temple work will be done in this life one way or the other.

When your faith and beliefs are challenged... when it is not "just the way our family is"... not tradition.... then your faith can grow.

[prospectmom]

sadly not all of us can have the cookie-cutter mormon experience.... We have to take what we can and do as much as we can to get as close to it as we can.

[Jenamarie]

My bestfriend in HS was in a part-member family. Mom was LDS, step-dad was Catholic (and his bio-dad wasn't much in the picture, but he wasn't LDS either, and step-dad was "Dad" to all the kids). His step-dad allowed the children to be raised LDS and hardly attended Catholic meetings, except when his extended family had a wedding or something. Of the four children, only one, my best friend, is still active in the church. He served a mission and was married in the Temple. The other three all got into "long term relationships", two of them having children, and only one of them getting married after having the children. Step-dad joined the church just before my bestfriend got married, but the kids were all grown and out of the house and in their relationships. Even though he was what someone else earlier referred to as a "dry Mormon" for well over a decade (many in the ward were shocked when his baptism was announced. they'd thought he was already a member!) the kids didn't see the benefit of a Temple marriage and having the Priesthood in the home growing up.

[Guest missingsomething]

My father grew up in a member/nonmember home. He was the only one born under the convenant. (He as a menopause baby....the next youngest was 12 years old when he was born.)

He is the only active member of the church in his family, other than his parents before they died.

Even if the nonmember or other religion spouse eventually joins the church the children live through the conflict, and there are consequences. However, there are the same consequences for couples who are LDS and one is inactive.

applepansy

The problem with our church is that people generalize too much.

I, contrary to some of you, have met WONDERFUL ppeople who are ACTIVE and happy that grew up in part-member or NO member families. My family was not members and even further- my father would tell me when I was little that there was no god and to stop looking like an idiot praying. He only stepped foot ina church one time and it was when my mother's father died, and she latched onto the casket and we could not get her off. He had to walk in to get her.

I am active. I have a strong testimony. I was inactive for a period of 3 years and honestly - it was because of crap that members do sometimes... and I was never told it was OK if you got married in a temple and your husband was not worthy that it was ok to separate. I was encouraged to cut ties w/ friends who were non-members because they MIGHT influence me... (even though at the time I was completely worthy and had prayed about these friends and knew i could help them - and one DID join the church).

Dont generalize. Part-member families CAN have righteous children who serve missions even.. wow...:) it depends on how much the member-parent is willing to teach. How important the religion ranks to THEM. How strong THEIR testimony is. In my opinion it has more to do with the member than the non-member. My girls are extremely faithful, infact my biggest problem now is how to get my 4 yr old to stop talking to EVERYONE (even at inapprioprate times) about God, the word of wisdom, etc. (Like the other day a neighbor was walking by and lit a cig. She walked right up to her and said... ewe, you arent going to put that dirty thing in your mouth are you? My CTR teacher says God doesnt like us to smoke. Its a commandment. You are not good if you dont listen." THAT went over like a ton of bricks..... but out of the mouth of babes.

Sorry for long posts ya'll. :)

[DigitalShadow]

I'm not religious, my wife is a member and so far we get along quite well. Living in Utah, I know a lot of couples who are both members and still have serious family problems. I think it has a lot more to do with the character of the person you marry than what religion they happen to belong to.

[bmy-]

We have about 10 mixed-faith couple in our branch of ~50 families. Only one of them comes to church, usually it is the LDS spouse that bows to the pressures of the non-LDS. The children grow up not knowing what to believe, though they may develop a stronger testimony than a non-mixed faith couple.

Do you want to risk the Eternal Life of your children?

Do you want to risk his children never getting the chance to live? That's an extremely ignorant statement that you made..

[prospectmom]

bmy I said it nicer... :]

[RachelleDrew]

My father and his wife are of two completely different religions. They are certainly well-suited for each other and their marriage works quite well. My father is atheist (raised Lutheran) and my stepmother is a devout Methodist. They don't have conflict over religion, at all. One of my former bishops was married to a non-member (he was a convert after marriage). His relationship seemed quite functional and loving as well.

It can work.

However.

If you have to ask for examples to give you confidence in your mixed-religion relationship then that makes me concerned. You would know in your gut if mixed religious beliefs were going to be a problem or not. You wouldn't have to ask in the first place if there weren't already concerns.

Good luck.

[Soul_Searcher]

I am currently dating a non-member. I want to disregard all other circumstances and just consider what consequences this alone would have if we were to get married. We have been talking a little about it lately (read: tonight). One thing I realized is that I could not think of a single mixed-religion couple (or, as in this case, religious + non-religious person) where there were not immense problems for the family.

Please, does anyone know of a mixed religion couple wherein things worked out well and they were happy and could raise children without too much conflict? Please do not tell me what I already know, which is that these relationships are difficult. I know. What I do not know is how common they really are or how often they work well.

Thanks.

I havent read the whole thread, but my best friend grew up in the environment. Her Dad is not a member. Her Mum brought her and her brother up in the church with the Dad's support. The son served a mission, they are both married in the temple. As far as I know they have a good marriage. Not saying it was easy for them, but it worked. The Mum is stake YWs pres.

I think you need to assess your partner. Everyone is different. I dated a non member who I knew would never understand or be supportive about church. Would your man be, and would you be happy? Thats what I would be asking myself.

[Guest Lexish]

Thank you everyone for your answers! Every time I come to reply, I notice another post and then it gets me thinking again. I just would like to say a few things. I really appreciate your perspectives. I have been talking a lot with the-guy-in-question about this, and it occurred to me that I had never met a mixed-religion couple that was overall positive. That is why I wanted to know, and I am so glad to hear things do work out for people.

He has said that he would be supportive. He attended BYU for both his undergrad and graduate degrees, so he knows about the church and doesn't mind either way. He just doesn't agree with it, which is understandable and fine. I agree that at the end of the day, if something happened between us then that is what it would be -- between us.

I never really thought that I would marry a member, which I suppose is weird. When I was dating a good friend and fellow LDS person, I was surprised that it felt so right. Well, he is on a mission now, which brings me to this new situation. Suddenly I don't know so much about marriage anymore. I digress, the point is I just want to know other people's perspectives on how that sort of marriage affects the couple and the children.

This was brought up, and one of my biggest concerns is definitely the children not seeing how having the Priesthood in the home is a blessing. It was a huge blessing to me, even though I never sought it out myself.

I am of the opinion that most people who try can make a marriage work, and so I think we could be happy. I just also don't think that is the only thing to consider. Thanks everyone, if you have any more comments I'd love to hear them. Sorry I didn't respond to everyone's experiences, but you all have given me a lot to consider.

[YellowLight]

Do you want to risk the Eternal Life of your children?

Any way you look at this loaded question, it is rude and disrespectful.

[sensibility]

I'm perhaps a strange case; when my husband and I first decided to get married, he wasn't a member and had no plans to become one. I was fully prepared to marry him nonetheless (I was also in my mid-teens, which probably explains a lot). So a few years ago, I was right there with you, trying to work out how important it is to marry a member. I decided to go ahead and marry him because I knew we got on wonderfully and we liked each other.

However, now that I actually am married, I wish I could go back in time and smack myself upside the head. Marriage isn't just for companionship; marriage is a partnership. Everything your spouse does affects you, because your life is permanently bound to theirs. Marriage was designed to strengthen us, designed so that we could draw each other closer to God. When I'm feeling distant from God, I depend on my husband, my most intimate friend, to call me back. When I'm feeling discouraged, I'm so grateful to be married to a priesthood holder who can bless me as soon as I need it, instead of having to make an appointment with a home teacher or whatever. When my husband is feeling distant from God, he depends on me to reach out and invite him back.

If we didn't have that support system, we would be so much weaker and easier to break. As it is, though, when Satan comes at one of us, he knows he has to get through the other one first. We strengthen and guard each other. That's what marriage is supposed to be. "Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour. For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up." Knowing what I do now, I would never choose to marry anyone without a firm commitment to the Gospel unless I had undeniable revelation that I should.

I was lucky that my then-fiance gained a testimony of the Gospel and joined the Church, and that we could be married in the temple. I would never, now, consider binding my life to someone who wasn't as dedicated to the Gospel as I am. It's a huge gamble.

As for your question about raising children without conflict: I've known plenty of part-member families where the parents decided to raise the children LDS and never fought about it. There was no conflict between the parents. However, the children still get very conflicting messages from their parents' examples. I wouldn't choose that for my children.

Anyway, these are my thoughts, as someone who's faced the same situation. However, only you are entitled to revelation for your life, so prayer and fasting are the best ways to get a conclusive answer to your questions. :) We know that sometimes the unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believing. Nobody else can know for you. Best of luck.

[mlbrowninwa]

I'm going to give my thoughts even though i am not at this time LDS. My wife and i have been married for 17 years and we have two wonderful children that are 17 and 14. I was brought up in The Church of the Brethren and when i reached the age of 18, promptly stopped attending. I went a few years of not going to any church but when my wife and I were married and had our daughter I started wanting to return to church and raise our kids as I had been raised. My wife had never really been a religious person and resisted going all the time. However at that time she would go for me.

Over the years we feel away from church again more or less because I wasn't happy with what was going on with the church i was attending and then we started moving around the country making it hard to find a church home. Over the last couple years since we have settled in WA I have a real need to return to church and have been heavily researching the LDS church as well as attending another church here in Vancouver. My wife has no desire to attend any church regardless of which one it is, so my search for myself continues. During my meetings with the missionaries here we discussed each of us having the abiltiy to make decisions ourselves and i have taking that to mean that each of us decide for ourselves what is best for us.

As we have been married for 17 years and this has never really been a problem for us, I would say it can work. We are a very happy family and she and the kids never say a thing about me heading off to church every Sunday morning and they all have shown me respect for what i am doing. I respect their decision that they do not want to be part of it right now, but i do pray that at some point they will make the decision for themselves to search out God and make him a bigger part of their lives. Recently my 14 old son has been asking questions and has shown some interest. I do not push it at all and never bring it up to them. They know i pray about it and read the scriptures and they are welcome to join me at anytime they like. I will welcome them in at any time and help them find their way if they like.