Tithing

[Italics]

ok, so we have only just started paying tithing again. We told the Bishop we spend every penny we earn so we would miss out somewhere. He agreed to pay for our food and wrote us out a cheque to last a month. Well, we had an unexpected and urgent bill to pay and we had no choice but to use the money.

Now we have the situation of having to pay tithing over something else. They are all pretty serious bills that we have to pay, we cannot default. So then we will have to pay tithing or food/travel or a debt bill.

What do we do? I feel like I should be paying tithing especially as we got help. But as the Bishop has already helped us out, we cant get any more, especially as we've on;y paid a weeks worth.

I feel quite stressed and worried about this and woke up feeling sick with worry in the night. I feel like this could be a test and I should pay it and see if Im blessed like Ive been told. But money would literally have to be dropped through out letterbox for this to work. We have just had a tax rebate, so that wont happen.

I really dont know what to do about this situation.

I've heard COUNTLESS stories of people who were your situation, paid their tithing, and things worked out.

Not once have I ever heard of anyone losing their home because they paid tithing.

Hope that helps.

[the Ogre]

I've heard COUNTLESS stories of people who were your situation, paid their tithing, and things worked out.

Not once have I ever heard of anyone losing their home because they paid tithing.

Hope that helps.

I know people who pay their tithing and have lost their jobs, homes, and many possessions. Its a part of a recession. It effects everyone. What's good is that still pay their tithing in faith, knowing the L-rd has not forgotten them.

[Italics]

I know people who pay their tithing and have lost their jobs, homes, and many possessions. Its a part of a recession. It effects everyone. What's good is that still pay their tithing in faith, knowing the L-rd has not forgotten them.

Haha, you censored yourself saying "Lord."

Oh sorry, off topic...

[the Ogre]

Haha, you censored yourself saying "Lord."

Oh sorry, off topic...

Yup, I always do (though I occasionally miss through typing too fast).

[dazed-and-confused]

soul...so sorry for all your troubles...i'd like to offer some advice to, but after reading the other responses, i just dont know what to add because i feel they're mostly all true, except that i will place you in my prayers. i went through it too, and it stinks......hard choices...lighten the load

[Soul_Searcher]

I've heard COUNTLESS stories of people who were your situation, paid their tithing, and things worked out.

Not once have I ever heard of anyone losing their home because they paid tithing.

Hope that helps.

Well, what has now happened is that when we called all our creditors to make firm arrangements, they refused and threatened us with court action. We ended up having to fork out loads to appease them and stop any court action. We're up to date on that front now but as a consequence we're a month behind with our rent. If anything, our situation has worsened. We will have to talk to the Bishop on Sunday. I dont know what will happen now

[Gargantuan]

Keep trying to work it out, don't get discouraged for too long if you do. Keep busy physically and eat right for that'll help clear up your thinking and help you as you make decisions. Stay close to your Bishop and he'll help you work it out. Don't give up. It'll work out 4 U. Gar

[pam]

Talk with your Bishop. You are doing everything you can to keep up with things. Perhaps he can help with your rent for a couple of months. But continue to pay your tithing. But I have would him make the check out directly to your landlord.

[aj4u]

I am posting here because the other thread was closed. Maybe, I should should not post for a while since negative feedback is comming to me, but i will continue researching the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the D&C. I didn't even know what D&C was until after being on this forum. In the mean time, I would appreciate any comments that would help me make sense of what I stated already from the other thread in research even if it is by PM. In the mean time, I wish you the very best. I'll be back! I just want to get all my ducks in a row and understand what it is you believe because I am not sure.

Edited May 20, 2009 by aj4u

[the Ogre]

Talk with your Bishop. You are doing everything you can to keep up with things. Perhaps he can help with your rent for a couple of months. But continue to pay your tithing. But I have would him make the check out directly to your landlord.

Pam, I think they do anyway.

[Soul_Searcher]

Pam, I think they do anyway.

We do what anyway? Well yeah we will talk to him on Sunday and see what happens. We'll still pay our tithing, our goal is to go to the temple to do work for my mother in-law's parents, thats what brought all this about.

[ztodd]

I haven't been on this forum for every long, but I must say you are the first on it to tell me to pray about it.

I just wanted to add my testimony that if we pray to God with real intent, in sincerity of heart, and submit our willingness to Him to live His laws, then He will let us know the truth of the doctrine.

From Moroni 10 -

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

We can know the truth of all things, by the power of the Holy Ghost! Search, ponder, and pray. It is how we gain our testimony of all things.

Edited May 25, 2009 by ztodd

[aj4u]

I just wanted to add my testimony that if we pray to God with real intent, in sincerity of heart, and submit our willingness to Him to live His laws, then He will let us know the truth of the doctrine.

From Moroni 10 -

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

We can know the truth of all things, by the power of the Holy Ghost! Search, ponder, and pray. It is how we gain our testimony of all things.

This is a tough thing to ask. I have a book of Mormon, and I have read some of it, but for me to pray and ask God whether these things be so is a tall order for me because I wouldn't know how to do it sincerely sincerely speaking. For example, I am already a born-again Christian. Why would I want to trade the eternal security I already have for a religion that says I cannot know if I have it right now. 1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

It would be like a Muslim telling me to pray and ask God if Muhammad is His prophet, but I would have to do it sincerely. If I could do it sincerely, than I am sure I will get a sign that Muhammad is God's prophet, but which god is he a prophet for? Do you understand where I am coming from? I cannot be ingorant of the Devil's devices. He can appear as an angel of light and impersonate Jesus and or God without any problems to fool the human mind with all kinds of feelings and signs. We are dealing with supernatural forces. Didn't you realize that? Paul even warns that we should beware and consider accursed any that bring another gospel than that which we have heard already. Gal 1:8 1:8 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

Do you have a book titled Another Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Are you too going to tell me I have an interpretation problem again or are you going to tell me to ignore Paul's words of wisdom because of the testimony of a 14 year old boy? I am sincere, and I think these questions are valid and constructive and need to be answered in order for me to make an informed decision that concerns my eternal soul! I wish you the best, and I am trying to look at this sincerely and objectively Aj4u

Edited May 25, 2009 by aj4u

[spiritseeker]

So from my understanding you don't trust the Spirit enough to ask him a question because it may be the devil lying to you? Where is your faith ? The Jesus I know would never lead me astray. Until you have prayed about it you can't really say for sure if your faith in the born again expierence is true or not or whether what we believe is right? Your reasoning is like the ostrich who sticks their head in the sand because they are frightened.

As for the whole knowing for sure your salvation is guaranteed. I find that form of thinking prideful. As a LDS I know what I must do to recieve the glory of exaltation and I work at it daily. But , I feel to say that I know for sure where I will go is wrong. As it says in the scriptures pride goeth before the fall.... And , I know that one can lose their salvation if they do not follow the Saviour's teachings. I have read your previous post and it seems to me you have closed your mind to even the thought of the restored gospel. What's the point of being here then????? Someday I pray someone will be able to do your work in the temple sir because you have hardened your heart on this side...

[john doe]

AJ4U: Do you have so little faith in the God that you pray to that you are afraid that He will lead you astray? If He would lead you astray then He is not much of a God. My God is the God of the Bible, and He has never let me down when I have prayed to Him. Or are you afraid that if you pray with real intent that He will tell you something you don't want to hear or do? What does it mean to have real intent? Real intent is to have so much faith in Him that you are willing to do whatever He tells you to do, even if it sounds as silly as washing yourself in the river Jordan 7 times to be healed. Maybe it's not Him that's weak, it's you who have no faith in the answer He might give you.

[Gargantuan]

That's just my way of saying that even the best of us need to ask God for help in any sincere pursuit of truth. Blessings, Gar

I don't know if this will make any sense to anyone about the need to have a little faith when praying.

I worked with the American Indians for two years living on Reservations. To me, many are humble people. Many that I associated with had serious personal problems. I tried to help them understand about God's love for them. Most understood Wakan Tanka's (Big Holy or God) love for them, but they just didn't understand why they were so impoverished if He loved them and why life was so hard for them to endure. Some were very bitter over the hardship of plain living. Some were not bitter even after extreme hardship. I wondered why they had such a good attitude about life.

I asked why they were not bitter as others were and had encouraged them to be. A wise old Indian, who may have been a symbolic tribal chief told me that some had suffered so much that when they knew they could not endure any more they turned their hearts and thoughts to the Big Holy (Wakan Tanka) and some turned to Hoke Sheila (Jesus Christ). He said the hard times humbled the hardest and helped them see that the Great God was always near them and had always been. He said that their God only wanted them to pray for help and it would come in the way they needed it to come. The people needed to realize their blessings had arrived and then they would be blessed. Blessings, Gar

Edited May 25, 2009 by Gargantuan
grammar adding a Title

[McRib]

Ok, I was wondering...

Let's say you have determined that you have overpaid your tithing for the past few years, and you know by exactly how much. Would it be okay to reduce future tithing payments until you are "even" again?

I have been re-evaluating how I want to determine tithing payments during retirement, and have changed my strategy. I am not trying to scam the Lord, I am just looking at practical ways to make sure he gets his 10%, instead of 20%.

Ideas?

[Dravin]

Take it up with the Lord, if he's fine with it then you can honestly and truly state you are a full tithe payer to your Bishop.

[Vort]

Ok, I was wondering...

Let's say you have determined that you have overpaid your tithing for the past few years, and you know by exactly how much. Would it be okay to reduce future tithing payments until you are "even" again?

I have been re-evaluating how I want to determine tithing payments during retirement, and have changed my strategy. I am not trying to scam the Lord, I am just looking at practical ways to make sure he gets his 10%, instead of 20%.

Ideas?

Let's suppose instead that you underpay for a few years. Do you need to "catch back up" for your underpayment over a period of three to five years? Or can you simply start giving a full 10% and consider yourself a full tithe payer from that point on?

The matter is between you and the Lord. Ultimately, Dravin's answer is the only generally correct one, I think. But if you have received your endowment, you have already given all you have to God anyway, so to my way of thinking it does not make much sense to try to "even the score" by "underpaying" to "make up" for previous "overpayments".

[McRib]

Let's suppose instead that you underpay for a few years. Do you need to "catch back up" for your underpayment over a period of three to five years? Or can you simply start giving a full 10% and consider yourself a full tithe payer from that point on?

The matter is between you and the Lord. Ultimately, Dravin's answer is the only generally correct one, I think. But if you have received your endowment, you have already given all you have to God anyway, so to my way of thinking it does not make much sense to try to "even the score" by "underpaying" to "make up" for previous "overpayments".

Thanks for the comments. I do have to disagree with you somewhat, as we have not been asked (at least not yet) to give everything and live the law of consecration. We have been asked to give 10%. The remaining 90% is under our stewardship, in order to support our families, raise our children, help others, maintain a righteous life, etc. This is the law that we are currently commanded to live.

As far as underpayment of tithing in the past, I guess that would be up to the individual to decide whether they need to pay extra in order to catch up. I have heard stories of people doing such and being blessed for their dedication.

I guess in my mind, I am just looking at practical ways to accurately give the Lord his 10%. For this portion of money I am trying to manage, I can either give him his money now, or later when I retire.

I am leaning towards reducing the amount of tithing that I am paying now over the next several months until I am "even" again. However, with the extra money that I will now have, I am not going to run out and spend it on a new car or vacation or anything like that...that just doesn't feel right. Rather, I am planning on paying a more generous fast offering, increase my savings, and pay off some debt faster.

[Dravin]

Thanks for the comments. I do have to disagree with you somewhat, as we have not been asked (at least not yet) to give everything and live the law of consecration. We have been asked to give 10%. The remaining 90% is under our stewardship, in order to support our families, raise our children, help others, maintain a righteous life, etc. This is the law that we are currently commanded to live.

Don't confuse the law of consecration with the United Order. The United Order was an implementation of the law of consecration but it was/is not the law of consecration. The United Order has been discontinued, the law of consecration is still in effect.

[Vort]

Thanks for the comments. I do have to disagree with you somewhat, as we have not been asked (at least not yet) to give everything and live the law of consecration. We have been asked to give 10%. The remaining 90% is under our stewardship, in order to support our families, raise our children, help others, maintain a righteous life, etc. This is the law that we are currently commanded to live.

Dravin's comments are appropriate here. It is a misconception and a commonly taught falsehood that "we don't live the law of consecration today". In fact, we most certainly do (or at least should) live the law of consecration, given that we covenant to do exactly that when receiving our temple endowment. What we do not live is the "united order", a certain implementation of how to live the law of consecration.

For those of us who have received our endowment, we have already given all we have and all we are, including our time, our money, and our talents, to God for the building up of his kingdom. Tithing is simply one rather small part of that consecration; if the bishop, as the steward of the Lord's property in Zion, were to require the rest of it from us, I assume we would be morally obligated to turn it over to him.

[applepansy]

Thanks for the comments. I do have to disagree with you somewhat, as we have not been asked (at least not yet) to give everything and live the law of consecration. We have been asked to give 10%. The remaining 90% is under our stewardship, in order to support our families, raise our children, help others, maintain a righteous life, etc. This is the law that we are currently commanded to live.

As far as underpayment of tithing in the past, I guess that would be up to the individual to decide whether they need to pay extra in order to catch up. I have heard stories of people doing such and being blessed for their dedication.

I guess in my mind, I am just looking at practical ways to accurately give the Lord his 10%. For this portion of money I am trying to manage, I can either give him his money now, or later when I retire.

I am leaning towards reducing the amount of tithing that I am paying now over the next several months until I am "even" again. However, with the extra money that I will now have, I am not going to run out and spend it on a new car or vacation or anything like that...that just doesn't feel right. Rather, I am planning on paying a more generous fast offering, increase my savings, and pay off some debt faster.

Its up the the individual in both situations of under and over payment. However, I know personally of two bishop's who said that making up the difference is not necessary. Its called Repentance. You repent, start paying a full tithe and move on from there. You don't need to go backwards unless you personally feel you need to.

I don't understand why you're nitpicking with the Lord. If we grudgingly pay tithing we aren't going to get the blessings.

Any endowed member should be living the law of consecration. Even if we're not endowed its all the Lord's anyway and he loans everything to us.

Maybe this is a test for you? If I was in your situation I wouldn't worry about it but move on from this point forward. I am so grateful to my Heavenly Father and Savior for EVERYTHING that I would have a really hard time kneeling down and asking if I can have my money back.

[Guest NEWMAYMBONE]

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