How might we be perceived?

[lattelady]

I am a non-member living in a very LDS community. My husband and I are asked frequently by people who live here and find out we're not part of the Church, "How are you being treated? I hope you're treated well." For the most part, we are well-accepted in the general community. In our neighborhood, however, we are all but ignored. We did have someone from the ward drop by and visit and find out we weren't members. They reached out in kindness to one of my daughters by dropping off a b-day card the day after they visited after finding out it was her 9th birthday. It was very sweet. After that, we've noticed that slowly but surely our neighbors have pulled away and are very standoffish. Last night my husband and I went for a walk and said hi to several neighbors who were also out and about. Without fail, each one ignored us and didn't return so much as a 'hello.' We're okay with that--we don't UNDERSTAND that, but we know each person is entitled to their fears. But I wondered from those of you who know, are we peceived as a bother in the neighborhood? someone to stay away from? are we feared? Do the people in our local ward know about us and not want to be associated with us? What can we do to tear down walls? (as a side note, we've lived in this community for 10 years and in three different neighborhoods. We've been treated the same by our neighbors in each neighborhood we've lived in).

Edited August 21, 2009 by lattelady

[pam]

Move next door to me. This is a sore subject with me. I have witnessed this myself and I am a member of the Church.

I have no words of advise other than to just continue to be a good neighbor..be friendly..say hello...you have done your part to be the kind of neighbor you would like others to be. The rest is on them.

[Canuck Mormon]

I am a non-member living in a very LDS community. My husband and I are asked frequently by people who live here and find out we're not part of the Church, "How are you being treated? I hope you're treated well." For the most part, we are well-accepted in the general community. In our neighborhood, however, we are all but ignored. We did have someone from the ward drop by and visit and find out we weren't members. They reached out in kindness to one of my daughters by dropping off a b-day card the day after they visited after finding out it was her 9th birthday. It was very sweet. After that, we've noticed that slowly but surely our neighbors have pulled away and are very standoffish. Last night my husband and I went for a walk and said hi to several neighbors who were also out and about. Without fail, each one ignored us and didn't return so much as a 'hello.' We're okay with that--we don't UNDERSTAND that, but we know each person is entitled to their fears. But I wondered from those of you who know, are we peceived as a bother in the neighborhood? someone to stay away from? are we feared? Do the people in our local ward know about us and not want to be associated with us? What can we do to tear down walls? (as a side note, we've lived in this community for 10 years and in three different neighborhoods. We've been treated the same by our neighbors in each neighborhood we've lived in).

Sometimes people complain that we only try to befriend others to try and covert them, so it could be that they are "gun shy". Of course, we are also just regular people, and maybe everyone in your neighborhood is just rude?

[Bini]

I have felt this too despite being a member.

My situation is a little different though because I moved to an itty bitty town in Southern UT from Asia and I was a total outsider to begin with. I never did quite mesh with those Ence and Hafen clans, which are, predominant families down in that area.. But becoming inactive in my mid-teens probably didn't help the situation either. It only isolated me more from my peers that were active members and in tight knit groups since childhood.

Like Pam said, just continue to be friendly and smile :] There will always be rude and impolite people.

[Guest Godless]

It's always been my opinion that people like that should spend some time in the northeast, where people are generally impolite (by the rest of the country's standards, anyway) and Mormons are scarce. I've never lived in Utah, but it seems that many people there suffer from a "bubble" complex. The Church is everywhere, as are its members, and I'm sure that a lot of people take that for granted sometimes. The best way to fight it is to be a good neighbor to the LDS members in your community and reach out to them the best you can. Sooner or later, someone will notice, and maybe then they'll see you as a member of their community rather than a non-member of their Church.

[Dravin]

Random thoughts that may or may not apply to your situation.

I wonder how much a factor not wanting to be seen as a hyper active proselyte plays into things like this. Probably not all that much but if you expressed a desire in that regard (or implied it) so much of the Church is involved in our lives beyond just Sunday (I'm not saying this isn't true of other denominations), but things like Family Home Evening, Scouts, Mutual, Enrichment, quorum functions and the like are peppered through out lives that one my be overly self-conscious of being seen as preachy and pushy.

Also in that vein if it's a seriously LDS community they may be so used to interacting with people and assuming they are members that they don't know exactly how to react. Also a lot of social interaction focuses around church or starts at church, its were people meet new people for the first time, they get involved and introduced to each other in classes and the like. All this creates a situation were they may be so used to dealing withing that framework they aren't sure how to deal without it.

And we mustn't forget judgmental people (and you can't forget the cliques), the Church has them, maybe your latte forces them to recoil like a vampire from garlic. As far as tearing down walls you could always throw a block party (though I might forgo the cooler of beer), do what every good Mormon does for events like these, hand out fliers. :)

P.S. Also don't forget people can by shy, taking religion out of the equation they have their friends that they are comfortable and you are a brand new person. This still applies even if they seem gregarious and open enough with each other, once I know somebody its cake, cookies and less social awkwardness, but if I don't know you, woo boy (even with the facilitator for meeting new people that is a singles ward I don't exactly have a gaggle of people I'm 'normal' with). So as a socially awkward person and if you greeted me I'd most likely give a greeting in return and continue on my way, though admittedly I'd not just ignore you, if nothing else you'd get a head nod. That said I doubt the entire ward has my issues, if it did nothing would get done.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Dravin

[Palerider]

My situation is a little different. I live in a Baptist community and life is very interesting. Not so much now because my kids are grown, however, we did deal with alot of stuff because we were not one of "them" when our kids were at home and attending public schools.

[pam]

Lattelady when we have your next lds.net get together in Utah would you be willing to come? I mean, after all, Elphaba who is one of our resident atheists comes and we love her.

[lattelady]

Sounds interesting! You'll have to keep me posted and I'll ponder that! will you tell me something as a member, when you find out at your ward that someone new has moved into the area and that they're not a member (esp. if you find out they're a member of another church), are you encouraged by your church to get to know them? or are you cautioned to be on your guard around them? You can be honest--I'm not expecting a certain answer because I really don't know. I just want to know what your experience is.

[pam]

I've never ONCE been told to be on guard against a non member who might possibly have moved into a neighborhood. Aren't we taught "Love they neighbor?" It's a hard concept for some to grasp.

But I have been in a leadership position before where we have discussed new people moving into our ward and at our monthly meeting..the Bishop did mention to us to make it a point to introduce ourselves to those new neighbors. Even those that are non members.

Sometimes people need to learn to get our of their "comfort zone."

[lattelady]

Let me add one detail--not only are we a member of another church: my husband is the pastor. I'm pretty sure that detail has gotten around the local ward. I just wonder if people see us as a nuisance--unwanted. Thanks, Pam, for your posts.

[pam]

Ahh I have a response to that lattelady but I need to head out the door to work. I will respond when I get home.

[Dravin]

Let me add one detail--not only are we a member of another church: my husband is the pastor. I'm pretty sure that detail has gotten around the local ward. I just wonder if people see us as a nuisance--unwanted. Thanks, Pam, for your posts.

I'd chalk that up as an implied, "Don't proselyte to us please." They may also be worried you'll proselyte to them possibly aggressively (in manner not frequency). It doesn't flow logically that because he's an ordained minister of another religion that he's going to take you down to the mat and try to grind you face in a bible (just look at our 'own' PrisonChaplin), but he could be getting an undeserved bad rap based on denomination. I think about how some people reacted to me as a Missionary and it kinda fits some of what you've described.

As far as people seeing you as a unwanted nuisance, you'll have to ask them, there aren't any official church teachings to chase them preachers from your midst, at least not that I've encountered.

[lattelady]

Just to clarify, we're non-denominational. I'm comforted to know that there aren't any official teachings on chasing "them preachers from your midst." Thanks for the post, Dravin. It's appreciated.

[prisonchaplain]

Sometimes people complain that we only try to befriend others to try and covert them, so it could be that they are "gun shy". Of course, we are also just regular people, and maybe everyone in your neighborhood is just rude?

To walk in the neighbors shoes, if an LDS family moved near to me, and had children my age, I'm guessing we'd have mixed feelings. I want to shine my own light, and be gracious and Christ-like. My children will be safe with their kids in most aspects. BUT, what if my young children are influenced by them to explore this other faith? What if they are spiritually seduced? Some here are converts from evangelicalism, so it happens (both ways).

My guess, at least for neighbors with children, is that protecting their children for the Gospel outweighs their desire to see you converted to it.

BTW, they are wrong. Jesus said that my neighbor is the Samaritan--whether LDS or evangelical.

[Danite]

I am deeply embrassed by the actions of some of the members of LDS church. I sorry If they have caused you any pain or frustration in your life. This is not what we teach. The gospel Jesus Christ is a gospel of accepttance. I can tell by reading some of your post you already Know this. I pray that our Heavenly Father will relief you of any anguish they have caused you.

[Palerider]

To walk in the neighbors shoes, if an LDS family moved near to me, and had children my age, I'm guessing we'd have mixed feelings. I want to shine my own light, and be gracious and Christ-like. My children will be safe with their kids in most aspects. BUT, what if my young children are influenced by them to explore this other faith? What if they are spiritually seduced? Some here are converts from evangelicalism, so it happens (both ways).

My guess, at least for neighbors with children, is that protecting their children for the Gospel outweighs their desire to see you converted to it.

BTW, they are wrong. Jesus said that my neighbor is the Samaritan--whether LDS or evangelical.

PC you and I and others have talked about this very thing here here in the past. The area of the Bible Belt I live in, my kids would come home and tell us about someone or a teacher or student that would make the comment, mormons are going to hell or, you guys worship the devil. I hope none of this goes on however I am sure it does.

[Dravin]

Just to clarify, we're non-denominational.

Well that's worse than Southern Baptist.

[NeuroTypical]

Lattelady's story is an example of why I often make the non-serious claim that I don't like the mormons. Yeah, I know that it's probably more a cultural thing than a mormon thing. Yeah, I know that our church doesn't teach that sort of shoddy behavior. Yeah, I know that Americans in general just have lost touch with what it means to know your neighbors and be friends with people who live next door to you. But at the end of the day, it seems like you can't swing a dead cat in a predominantly LDS neighborhood without hearing a similar story from a similar person who seems similarly nice. We're supposed to be better than that. 'Love thy neighbor' and all that.

Joke:

Man: I drink a cup of coffee every morning. It brings great benefits!

Offended mormon: Goodness! All that tannic acid and harmful chemicals and whatnot! What benefits could you possibly be talking about?

Man: Well, for one thing, it keeps you from being Mormon.

LM

[lattelady]

Loudmouth_Mormon, thanks for the honesty. It means alot. I'm not posting this looking for sympathy or for anyone to apologize to me for how our neighbors have treated us (though it is a sweet gesture, and I thank those of you who have said something)--I truly want to know what we can do to overcome this response from our neighbors, as it's something which has been ongoing. Our repeated kindnesses haven't seemed to help, but we won't stop being kind. But maybe consistency and perseverence...we love our community...the town we live in is beautiful. We just hope to understand one day what it is that our neighbors need from us that we're not giving.

[Generally_Me]

As someone who lives in an area where not only Mormons are a minority, but whites are as well, I feel what you are saying, lattelady.

Not only do I not know the names of the next door neighbors, the only people I know in the area are through work or church...and nearly none of those are within walking distance.

My thoughts: There are people like this everywhere. And I don't think it necessarily has to do with different religions or skin color. The neighbor probably thougt (when I moved in) "Oh, we need to go over and give them some bread." Then, "My gosh it's been a week, what will they think?" Now it's "Oh, it's a year later, what does it matter? They have already established we are quiet neighbors."

[lattelady]

Generally_me, I agree. It doesn't necessarily have to do with religions for some or skin color for others. And many experience the feelings I do. Sounds like you've experienced it as well, and I'm sorry... Where I live, it does have to do with religion; that's just the thing that MY family happens to have to deal with. But we work through it; it's a learning tool for our 5 kids and for our own spirituality!

[prisonchaplain]

PC you and I and others have talked about this very thing here here in the past. The area of the Bible Belt I live in, my kids would come home and tell us about someone or a teacher or student that would make the comment, mormons are going to hell or, you guys worship the devil. I hope none of this goes on however I am sure it does.

My general theory is that wherever one groups dominates the demographics, that majority group tends to exhibit insensitivity towards "outsiders." This may even be a universal phenomenon.

[Moksha]

The best way to fight it is to be a good neighbor to the LDS members in your community and reach out to them the best you can. Sooner or later, someone will notice, and maybe then they'll see you as a member of their community rather than a non-member of their Church.

I wanted to repost this since it was so good. The turn about is that it can also be used by Mormons in the outside world***.

*** The planet outside of our own, known as Earth.

:)

[Misshalfway]

Hello.

I have lived in a predominantly LDS neighborhood my whole life. I have seen the "behavior" the OP has observed, but I actually think it could mean so many things. I am not defending it.....just trying to remove some of the negative "judgments" or assumptions that get made. Well, maybe I am defending it a bit. I won't deny sometimes members are trying so hard to be "good" that they are literally missing what it means to be a loving person. But that isn't everybody EVEN if the behavior looks the same.

One of my frustrations about being a Utah mormon is that everyone has predetermined assumptions about what you will be like and what your intensions are. If I invite someone to a church bbq, most likely they will automatically think I am trying to convert them. If I don't, they will think I am stand offish and that everyone is included in stuff but them.

Another thing that troubles me is that relationships in Utah generally start with it ALWAYS being about religion. Sometimes I just want to scream.....CAN EVERYONE JUST FORGET ABOUT THE MORMON CHURCH FOR FIVE MINUTES and just try to get to know me? Know what I mean?

Another problem: Food and the misconceptions about food. I taught one lady on my mission who put away her coffee machine away because she thought it would offend us to see it on her counter. We laughed and helped her understand. Non members and members both have issues here. Some feel judged cuz they do have the coffee maker. Others don't want to expose their kids to the "evils" of coffee consumption. I think both of missing it!!! If you were my friend, I would hope you would have your cup and I would have mine and it wouldn't matter in the end what was in the dang thing!

My final thought. I think we need to get religion out of the way. I think we need to get to know each other as people and fellow humans. I think mormons need to pop the bubble. I think non mormons need to get over "being different" and we both need to meet in the middle and reach out and quit wasting time being offended or stand offish or being afraid of what others think of us. And we need to stop reading each others minds or judging each other!!! Each person DESERVES to be evaluated on an individual basis.

My next door neighbor is not LDS. I love them! They drink wine. We don't. Nobody cares. I have not been the most friendly neighbor as my health has kept me from being as I would like. They don't know about my situation. I am fearful that they think I am just another stand offish mormon. If both of us could get to know each other, I am confident they could see the real truth about me and what I do. I think that appreciation could go both ways as I need to quit assuming the worst about their thoughts too.

Prayers for all of us as we learn better how to coexist.

Edited August 21, 2009 by Misshalfway