Stranger slaps crying toddler in a Walmart

[pam]

I first read this and went "what the??"

If anyone had EVER done this to my child..I'm afraid I'm the one that would have been arrested for assault.

Stranger allegedly slaps crying child in store - CNN.com

[Jamie123]

LOL...same with me Pam! If they did and I was in the jury, I'd make sure they let you go free!

(Trouble is they don't let cases like this go to juries - they're decided by pompous idiot magistrates who just rubber stamp police decisions.)

Edited September 3, 2009 by Jamie123

[Gwen]

can you be arrested for assault if it's self defense of your 2 yr old child? one slap he might make the case that he had stopped and any attack on him was over the line but 4 slaps... i think that calls for the right to fight back.

[talisyn]

He would have been on the floor if it had been my child. But maybe we're being too hasty. The man was in his 60s, it may be he was taking medicine that affects impulse control or patience (my dad has a few of those ). Seriously, what kind of healthy person randomly smacks crying kids, especially in public?

[Gwen]

if he's on meds that effect him that strongly he needs to stay home and avoid being in public unsupervised. lol

[NeuroTypical]

I'm no lawyer, but:

So, regarding a good mamma bear type parent responding with force:

The law tends to see it in two ways:

* You're justified in using whatever force necessary to protect you or someone else from harm. Only the smallest amount of force necessary - no more. So no, no ripping his arm off and bludgeoning him in the face with it while yelling "so how does THAT feel?!"

* Depending on your local laws, citizen's arrest may or may not be an option. In places where it is, there's often provision made as to using force to keep the arrestee from escaping. "After I placed him under arrest and asked several people to call the cops, he tried to run away. So I kicked him between the legs fifteen times until he stopped trying to be able to get away. He was a big violent guy, and I'm just a mommy with no formal law enforcement, combat, or martial arts training. I was afraid he'd hit me and break my bones." is a fine statement for a jury to hear. If you have enough witnesses, the police may not even arrest you in the first place.

[pam]

So no, no ripping his arm off and bludgeoning him in the face with it while yelling "so how does THAT feel?!"

I prefer this method.

[BenRaines]

LM, your no lawyer? Former police officer. Police officers are taught how to articulate in a report exactly what happened so that a jury would see it just as they did when it happened. Also helps to refresh your memory when a trial comes along a year later.

Very articulate LM

Ben Raines

[Moksha]

I am happy a bystander restrained the man till police arrived.

[Bini]

I caught this headliner on another forum. Wow, just wow.

[beefche]

What does it say about me that I sometimes want to slap the parents of some kids at Walmart?

[pam]

Wanting to and actually doing it are two different things.

[annewandering]

Slapping the parents is not the same as slapping a child although until you have walked in their shoes then shushh.

I would have been stunned but my husband would have decked him. No doubt at all about it.

We didn't take our kids to stores generally because we did not like the temptations etc offered deliberately by stores. It puts the kids in fussy moods which is needless. I have always been in awe of families that are brave enough to take 3 or 4 young ones to stores.

If the guy really wanted to stop the child crying he could have offered to help in some way and slapping is not helping.

[Maya]

Before hitting the parents.. I would carefully consider the size and possibility of a blakslach... a nice talk with the kid had been better... but I quess he had been arrested for pedofili in that case. So EARPLUGS would have been best!

[Dravin]

Slapping the parents is not the same as slapping a child although until you have walked in their shoes then shushh.

I would have been stunned but my husband would have decked him. No doubt at all about it.

We didn't take our kids to stores generally because we did not like the temptations etc offered deliberately by stores. It puts the kids in fussy moods which is needless. I have always been in awe of families that are brave enough to take 3 or 4 young ones to stores.

If the guy really wanted to stop the child crying he could have offered to help in some way and slapping is not helping.

If he'd offered to help with the child he'd probably be facing accusations of being a pedophile.

Mother to self: "Why did the creepy old man offer to pick up my child/hold her hand/talk to her/offer her candy/help me with her? He probably wanted/wants to molest her that sick freak!"

Mother out loud: "Pedophile!"

You do the safe thing, you grit your teeth, move on and then get home and complain about annoying kids on the internet.

Edit: I could just be voicing my own fears, I remember some kid in the bathroom at Walmart having trouble washing his hands, I was half tempted to help but the other half was in terror of the possible consequences of doing so, the every non-family member/close friend male (you know, the one least likely to actually molest your child) is a potential pedophile mentality is down right scary as accusations absent any proof have the potential to ruin lives. This may be an outgrowth of of the little white handbook from my mission and its, 'Every child is a potential lawsuit' warnings.

P.S. For the record slapping the kid was over the line in a rather large way.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Dravin

[Guest]

If he'd offered to help with the child he'd probably be facing accusations of being a pedophile.

Mother to self: "Why did the creepy old man offer to pick up my child/hold her hand/talk to her/offer her candy/help me with her? He probably wanted/wants to molest her that sick freak!"

Mother out loud: "Pedophile!"

You do the safe thing, you grit your teeth, move on and then get home and complain about annoying kids on the internet.

Edit: I could just be voicing my own fears, I remember some kid in the bathroom at Walmart having trouble washing his hands, I was half tempted to help but the other half was in terror of the possible consequences of doing so, the every non-family member/close friend male (you know, the one least likely to actually molest your child) is a potential pedophile mentality is down right scary as accusations absent any proof have the potential to ruin lives. This may be an outgrowth of of the little white handbook from my mission and its, 'Every child is a potential lawsuit' warnings.

P.S. For the record slapping the kid was over the line in a rather large way.

I'm of a different mindset. With a pure heart and pure intent, I will help. If I get sued - so be it. God is my judge. Nothing else matters much.

[beefche]

Slapping the parents is not the same as slapping a child although until you have walked in their shoes then shushh.

I would have been stunned but my husband would have decked him. No doubt at all about it.

We didn't take our kids to stores generally because we did not like the temptations etc offered deliberately by stores. It puts the kids in fussy moods which is needless. I have always been in awe of families that are brave enough to take 3 or 4 young ones to stores.

If the guy really wanted to stop the child crying he could have offered to help in some way and slapping is not helping.

Oh no, you misunderstand me. Kids will be kids...fussy kids, screaming kids don't bother me. It's those parents that do inhuman and stupid things that bother me.

Things I like to slap the parents that I've observed: mommy giving a toy to a child to ask if he'd like it, then taking it away saying they couldn't afford it; daddy telling his child to shut up because he's sick of her mouth (she wasn't crying, just talking about her day at school); parents smacking a child too harshly (imo) for crying or begging; mom jerking her child behind her (too harshly again IMO).

I get that parents get impatient and do things to kids that maybe they shouldn't but can't help because of the timing. I've done my fair share of yelling or being too harsh with a kid. But, there are times when I see parents in a store do something that just hurts my heart.

[Gwen]

i think in the case of "helping" it's different for men and women. a man helping a kid struggling to wash their hands in the restroom could be seen differently than a woman doing the exact same thing. women tend to get away with more due to the assumed "motherly instincts". when i see kids crying in the store and the parents seem to be doing nothing or overwhelmed with it i will smile and wave or do something simple to maybe distract them from the fit they are having. i never assume the worst when a man does such for my kids. i usually think (based on age) maybe he's a grandpa and it reminds him of his little ones, or he's a big brother himself and this isn't the first fussy kid he's seen.

i would NEVER give a stranger's child a gift or food or some such to divert a fit or anything else. i might if the woman were in an obviously difficult situation offer to hold or carry a child depending on the circumstances.

my daughter, about 2 at the time, was throwing a huge fit in the store. she saw a cake that was all pink and such and decided she wanted it. it was lunch time and we were on our way out of the store to go to lunch. she flung herself to the floor and started screaming "i'm hungry!". i was VERY pregnant at the time and could not pick her up off the floor when she was fighting me like that. all i wanted was to get out of the store. so i was pushing her along the floor with my foot hoping that she would decide she didn't like it and get up and walk on her own. ppl just stood there and stared. then an older man (probably a grandpa) stopped and started talking to her (she ignored him she was focused on her fit). he asked if he could give her something to eat (she was screaming "i'm hungry" after all). i said no, explained that she was not hungry she wanted a pink cake and that we were on our way to lunch as soon as she would get off the floor. he gets in his grocery bag and gives her a granola bar anyway. i was so upset. i know he meant well but if he really wanted to help he should have said "oh, lol yeah i've been there before. you look tired can i carry her to the car for you?" instead to avoid the attention i about killed myself trying to pick her up so i could get out of there.

it's hard sometimes but there is a balance between helping other parents and becoming part of the problem.

[pam]

Being a manager in a convenience store..I've probably seen it all with parents bringing their kids in. How many times do I see a child want something and be told no, no, no..and then start throwing fits only to have the parent finally say...Okay all right already..and buy it for them.

That child has learned right there that that is all they have to do to get what they want. There's been a few times I've even said to the mom, "Mom be strong."

[Generally_Me]

I read about this elsewhere first. I'm still stunned.

[Mahone]

I'm of a different mindset. With a pure heart and pure intent, I will help. If I get sued - so be it. God is my judge. Nothing else matters much.

There is also a church teaching which says "avoid the appearance of evil" - you aren't just going to be damaging and hurting yourself by potentially having yourself branded as a pedophile, you'll be hurting your spouse, parents, kids etc. Unless it is a life or death situation, I'd agree with Dravin and say steer well clear.

My uncle is in his 40s and as he had what I like to call a "solar panel" appear on the top of his head from around the age of 25 (i.e. he was going bald), he decided to shave his head and has been completely bald since that age. He also likes to wear leather jackets. Basically his generally appearance can give him the look of a thug sometimes and he knows it, but most of the time he doesn't care, those are the clothes he likes to wear. He told me of a time about two years ago when he saw a little girl in a shop who looked lost. He spoke to her and tried to find out if she knew where her mother was, and as he was doing so, his mother appeared from around the corner, shot a disgusted and apprehensive look at him and quickly grabbed her child from in front of him and disappeared. He was upset for days after that incident - he knew he'd never have hurt that child, he was just trying to help. But her immediate assumption, simply taken from his appearance was that he was trying to hurt her child.

In reality, my uncle is married, has three children of his own who he adores, has a professional and very well paid job in which he has climbed rapidly up the ladder for years and is a member of the church (albeit inactive) - yet you'd never guess that from his appearance sometimes.

So, avoid the appearance of evil where possible.

Edited September 4, 2009 by Mahone

[pam]

It's sad that our world has come to that.

[annewandering]

My husband loves babies. Going into walmart is such an experience some times. He will always wander off smiling at babies and telling their moms how cute their babies are. Most of the time he has a fluffy white beard and some kids actually think he is santa claus. very funny because he actually hates that and will shave it off if he hears anyone say something like that.

I worry that people will think he is a pervert going after children and so I try to drag him off. Oddly the moms dont seem to mind, in fact smile a lot, but I admit that concerns me as well. (What are they teaching their kids about strangers?)

Our world has gone nuts when we have to worry about grandpas smiling at babies in the store.

Still its crazy when we have to worry about them slapping our kids for crying. Unbelievable.

[Maya]

Once my 2(3) year old decided a throw a fit as I was standing in line to pay. She wanted candy, which I did not buy to her. She started screeming and threw herself on her back on the flor and was stamping with her hands and legs. I calmly told her to stop and get up from the dirty floor ... then payed my grosaries tok the bag in the other hand and the screaming and kicking girl under my arm and walked out of the shop. I met many approving looks. and smiled back.

Here is a picture of her with the very dress on and the hat...

I would strongly advice all strangers to keep away from any kids as you never know how hysterical the mother is and there has been so many convictions based on wrong assumptions. Grandfathers can not hug their grandchildren publically without getting weird looks any more. Anyway the closest ones are the most dangerous after all as they are the most difficult to catch.

A man that really likes to take care of kids did a big mistake... he licked the icecream from the childs chinn as there was no hankies around! Now the woman who knew the mother of that child saw him with some kids in a park and followed him home and informed the police. The police would not do anything so she found out who the kids were and called their parents... the kids were all "sick" next day and as it was only a week to summerholiday they tok the kids on a holiday already and arranged grandparents with them. He was going to probably find an other job as the daycare systen at home has become for only babyes bigger kids go in the kndergarten. ...

A man (ab 60) came once in my kindergaten, he had hurt his back and was on sick leave and was not able to go back to the job he had, so he asked if he could come and try how it would be to work in a kindergarten. He was good with kids all the older ones liked him a lot and he sang and played the guitarr with them. Ofcourse some of the women tought he was spooky and wanted him out of the kindergarten. He had been working free for us. I told him that he should not be anywhere alone with kids, for his own good. He was very hurt. Then he tried a few other kindergartens and it was the same everywhere. He had to give up kindergartens. I could see how it hurt him as he realised that there were people who were suspicious for him. I also told him that he should send someone else with the kids to the toilet...

[Gwen]

i've talked to moms that have decided their kids will never have friends sleep over nor will their kids sleep over at other's homes. between never really knowing who is a danger and the life altering risks of false accusations they just don't want to risk it. when it's time for baths and sleeping if the parents aren't there they should be at their own home.

though i agree to a certian extent i'm not quite that strict.