Student suspended for long hair

[Mahone]

I'd be accusing the district of sexism before anything else. :)

We could go so far down this road. Where does it stop? At some point we have to face it that males and females ARE different, regardless of what the sexism crowd would have you believe. Accordingly, men and women usually wear different types of clothing. They also usually have different hair styles, particularly what could be classed as professional hair styles. That's generally considered the norm, and conservative. If the girls are allowed to wear skirts and the boys are not, is it right that the boys can demand to be allowed to wear skirts? If I went to work in a skirt, I don't think that argument would stand up to scrutiny - of course some men like to wear skirts in their own time (it does happen) but because it isn't conservative, they won't do it while on work time.

As far as I can see, they do have two different standards for boys and girls. But one is not lower than the other, they are just different.

The church is also guilty of the same thing you'd be accusing the school of, in many ways.

They should come spend some time in my school - at least that kid's hair is clean.

I can imagine that is exactly why they keep their standards so high... so they don't become like other schools.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Mahone

[miztrniceguy]

I don't think a school has a right to dictate hair length. Would they not allow my daughter to go since her hair is very short?

[Mahone]

I don't think a school has a right to dictate hair length. Would they not allow my daughter to go since her hair is very short?

What right does BYU have to make their students have a health recommendation from their doctor before they can grow a beard? I would say beards are around the same level of controversy as guys with long hair. In fact the process for growing a beard at BYU, by worldly standards, sounds laughable. It's like having a license for a gun.

A student who wishes to obtain a beard exception must visit a BYU Student Health Center doctor by appointment (422.5156). The doctor will fax his recommendation. The student then needs to come to the Honor Code Office to fill out some paperwork and receive the letter allowing the growth of the beard, if approved. If a yearly beard exception is granted, a new Student ID will be issued after the beard has been fully grown, and must be renewed every year by repeating the process.

If a request is granted for a temporary or more permanent beard exception the student will be notified by the Honor Code Office; at which time the student will come into the office to complete the necessary paperwork. After completion of this process the student may then grow a full beard according the guidelines given.

What is the process for obtaining a beard exception? | honorcode.byu.edu

However, the response normally given to defend BYU when arguments like this come up is "if you don't like the rules, don't go there". I think that defense also applies to this school. Their school, their rules.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Mahone

[Wingnut]

However, the response normally given to defend BYU when arguments like this come up is "if you don't like the rules, don't go there". I think that defense also applies to this school. Their school, their rules.

That's one of the reasons my husband chose never to attend BYU.

[Dravin]

That's one of the reasons my husband chose never to attend BYU.

/me lovingly strokes his goatee.

Okay, that UVU is open admissions had more to do with it, but the dislike of facial hair didn't hurt things any.

[pam]

That's one of the reasons my husband chose never to attend BYU.

That's okay then. Just leaves another spot open for someone to join the 20,000+ other students who are okay with it.

[talisyn]

Personally I think the issue over hair length is kind of nuts for the school board to create.

However my opinion does not matter. It is a school board policy and the parents should be teaching their child to conform to the laws of the land. (12th article of faith.)

If they have an issue with it, then they should keep their child in conformance of the policy, while working with the school board and community to get the policy changed.

I watched a Father march his family out of the chapel, resign all callings, and only attend sacrament because a Young Woman's Leader dared to take his daughter aside and quietly remind her that she had been told if she attended Young Women anymore not dressed appropriately then she would have to leave. That this was the third time and now she had to go home.

The Father, instead of talking to the daughter, or even requesting a meeting with the Young Women President and Bishop made it a very public affair. He expected the church to change the dress standards because he was struggling with a daughter attending church. But what about the girls who followed the standards? After this issue the Young Woman President gave up enforcing it since she was not supported by the Leaders in the Ward. So then the girls who had followed it got upset when others who were not didn't get talked to. And of course the one who started all this then looked at the fact that she was singled out. So instead of being about not proper dress it was the Leader not liking her.

The end result, the girl ended up with a live in boyfriend two years later and pregnant. The Son lost any interest in going on a mission or even showing up. The Father after a year of anger found out he had cancer. He had a year to live, came back to church, apologized to the former YW Leader etc. He's gone now, his son shows up some times. His wife was able to rejoin choir which he had forbidden, was recalled to Primary which she had loved.

But by not following the policy, then by the parents not supporting the Leaders many more people were effected in a negative fashion. This hair length issue being played out is the same deal. Lots of time and money will be wasted on a tiny issue. This is not a lesson to teach a child how to protect a freedom but how to only worry about what they want and not following the rules or working to change bad policy in a reasonable manner.

Why can't the children wear what ever hair length they want? Why should someone be excluded.

Why can't any member who wants attend the temple? Why should someone be excluded.

Why can't women have the priesthood, other religions are allowing female leaders. It's old fashioned just like women wearing pants.

We should always question things we think are wrong, but in a manner that does not do more damage.

I think the dad was just happy that his daughter was there in a chair, thinking that the example of the other girls over a period of time would influence his daughter's choices.

[Dravin]

The YW leader was probably thinking the reverse.

That's always a fun one. We're taught to spend our time with people of similar values (choose friends wisely), but on the other hand we're taught to influence people for the better. So one person looks at a friendship and sees, "Awesome, maybe that good friend will lift him up" and the other is looking at it thinking, "My child is hanging out with the kid who listens to inappropriate music, wears inappropriate clothings and uses inappropriate language! He's going to drag him down!"

Edited December 20, 2009 by Dravin

[Justice]

Pg. 666

LOL

[MarginOfError]

We could go so far down this road. Where does it stop? At some point we have to face it that males and females ARE different, regardless of what the sexism crowd would have you believe. Accordingly, men and women usually wear different types of clothing. They also usually have different hair styles, particularly what could be classed as professional hair styles. That's generally considered the norm, and conservative. If the girls are allowed to wear skirts and the boys are not, is it right that the boys can demand to be allowed to wear skirts? If I went to work in a skirt, I don't think that argument would stand up to scrutiny - of course some men like to wear skirts in their own time (it does happen) but because it isn't conservative, they won't do it while on work time.

As far as I can see, they do have two different standards for boys and girls. But one is not lower than the other, they are just different.

The church is also guilty of the same thing you'd be accusing the school of, in many ways.

I can imagine that is exactly why they keep their standards so high... so they don't become like other schools.

I really wish society would catch up on this one, because I'd be happy to wear a skirt on the hot and humid summer days. There are situations in which skirts are just more comfortable, and I long for the day when no one cares if a man wears a skirt.

[talisyn]

I really wish society would catch up on this one, because I'd be happy to wear a skirt on the hot and humid summer days. There are situations in which skirts are just more comfortable, and I long for the day when no one cares if a man wears a skirt.

I can help you to the future

Blåkläder - We speak work wear fluently

I can't get firefox to show the exact page, but these guys make kilts for only manly men.

[Mahone]

I really wish society would catch up on this one, because I'd be happy to wear a skirt on the hot and humid summer days. There are situations in which skirts are just more comfortable, and I long for the day when no one cares if a man wears a skirt.

You're actually semi-serious as well aren't you?

In all fairness, the wearing of a skirt on hot days is logical. But currently most western cultural preferences don't allow it. Culture vs logic

[miztrniceguy]

There is a difference between a college that you can choose to go to(or not) having a rule about hair length, and a public school you are mandated to go to by the state according to your geographic location. Can't just pick a different PUBLIC school.

[Mahone]

There is a difference between a college that you can choose to go to(or not) having a rule about hair length, and a public school you are mandated to go to by the state according to your geographic location. Can't just pick a different PUBLIC school.

Hmmm. I can't really agree or disagree with that. I don't know the US school system, having never lived there. I was thinking of the school system here, where each child does not necessary have to have a school chosen for them by government.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Mahone

[talisyn]

Public school attendance in the USA is done by address. For instance, children on the west side of Overland go to Mountain View Elementary school, and the ones on the east side go to Dworshak Elementary school. How does it work in the UK?

[Mahone]

How does it work in the UK?

Parents get to select their preferred schools. It doesn't work by a postcode lottery system. They can also move schools after starting at one.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Mahone

[Elgama]

You're actually semi-serious as well aren't you?

In all fairness, the wearing of a skirt on hot days is logical. But currently most western cultural preferences don't allow it. Culture vs logic

you can wear a kilt

[Hemidakota]

Here's the thing that really gets me. The kid is growing his hair out for a Locks of Love-type program, yet the school district has this to say: "...students who dress and groom themselves neatly, and in an acceptable and appropriate manner, are more likely to become constructive members of the society in which we live."

How is donating his hair to a charity for cancer patients not being a constructive member of society? I'd say that if this is his decision, and he's only 4 years old (what's a 4-year-old doing in kindergarten anyway, by the way?), he's well on his way to becoming a constructive member of society already.

Subjectiveness is always an issue when a group of people trying to determine what is right for them is also right for others.

[funkenheimer]

What a load of crap.

First of all this isn't a sweet little 4 year old kid making the decision to donate his long hair to Locks of Love, its his parents decision. A 4 year old does not make this decision without being pushed by his parents. This is he parents calling the shots. A typical 4 year old doesn't know anything about locks of Love or cancer for that matter. His parents led him to this point.

My bet is his parents are trying relive their rebellious youth vicariously through there son. Maybe they didn't get enough the first time around.

[Gwen]

does a 4 yr old know about locks of love without someone telling them.... no, no one does for that matter. is he still at an age where he is very much influenced by his parents.... of course. does that mean the parents are "wrong" or being irresponsible parents... no.

my sis donates her hair to locks of love every so often.... she grows her hair out very very long and takes very good care of it, then she gets it cut at the shoulders (a very drastic change) donates her hair and begins again. her daughter will grow up seeing her mom go from one extreme to another. she will know about locks of love. it would not surprise me if her daughter also wants to do this with her. i think it could be a great thing for them to do together.

small children are very giving. i can see a 4 yr old upon learning about something like that wanting to participate. from the pics i saw the kid has great hair. if he is constantly told what great hair he has and how fast it grows i could see someone commenting on locks of love. not that far fetched. even if it is the parents "pushing" it there are worse things for parents to push on their kids.

unfortunately a lot of kids know a lot about cancer.... we don't know this family's background.

long hair does not equal rebellion. my brother's boys have longer hair than my boys, they always have, therefor they like their hair longer. not sure that's a parenting issue, just a preference.

my issue with this is the policy and the schools objective do not line up. this is a public school. they claim the issue is to decrease distractions.... kids adjust to things very quickly, there wouldn't be much of a distraction. there are hairstyles that fit the "rule" that would be a bigger distraction. if the issue were cleanliness then all kids, girls and boys would need short hair. if this kid particularly had dirty hair or came to school consistently with lice or something, ok we have an issue. the policy needs to be changed that's all there is to it.

all that being said if this were my kid i would get his hair trimmed just enough to "fit the rule" and then work to change the system. i would teach my kid about changing the system, about following rules even when we don't like them. and let him know as soon as the rule is changed he can start growing his hair again if that's what he wants to do. but that's just me.

[Mahone]

you can wear a kilt

Commando style?

[prisonchaplain]

IMHO the parents do indeed want to buck the conservative school system. It's even possible that the hair-for-cancer-victims project was an afterthought...an effort to embarrass the prudish, Bush-conservative-school-system. At the same time, enforcing a hair-length dress code on lower elementary school kids? The district clearly doesn't mind stepping into it.

[mightynancy]

I can imagine that is exactly why they keep their standards so high... so they don't become like other schools.

We could insist until we're blue in the face (erm...we have) but many of my students' parents aren't up to the job. We don't have facilities to assist with greater hygeine issues, but we do have toothbrushes and paste, combs and barrettes.

And, by the way, we serve a mostly-in-poverty population but do quite well academically. A fight over hair length in a public school is ridiculous.

[Moksha]

IMHO the parents do indeed want to buck the conservative school system. It's even possible that the hair-for-cancer-victims project was an afterthought...an effort to embarrass the prudish, Bush-conservative-school-system. At the same time, enforcing a hair-length dress code on lower elementary school kids? The district clearly doesn't mind stepping into it.

I dunno Padre, if the kids are not taught to obey, comply and submit, will they be able to someday fit like a well placed cog among the automatons?

[Carl62]

I am 1000% behind Locks-of-Love because I currently have an 11 year old drum student who has an inoperable brain tumor and he's been letting his hair grow out for this very reason. When his hair got nearly half way down his back, I thought that he was just going for the 'little rocker' look, then his parents explained to me what Locks-of-Love was all about and I thought it was terrific what he was doing. He just recently got his hair cut and now he's about to do it all over again. You'd think that the schools would make an exception for this, since this is all for a good cause. First it's zero tolerance over a 1" G.I. Joe plastic knife and now zero tolerance for anybody trying to do something even if it's for a good cause, yet they won't do a darn thing to a bully if he/she harrasses another student to the point where the students life is practically ruined and he/she is forced to transfer to a different school, which just recently happened in one of our school districts. Is the common sense and priorities in our school systems bass-ackwards or what?