Results of Advice Collected Here for Abusive Husband Situation

[mililani]

I really prayed and thought long and hard how to "present" all of my new found advice and proof of abuse gently to my husband not wanting to set him off. Well after two days of preparation I presented my case. I was careful not to say "you" but always, "I feel....". I suggested that "We need help, that we need counseling, etc." Well- it didn't turn out as I planned. The look in his eyes changed from my husband to the man with dark, cold, empty eyes. His anger festered resulting in him stating that if anybody needs counseling it's me because I'm the one taking pills. (I've been on a low dose anti-depressant since the death of my daughter) I commented back with, "actually I was the one that takes my pill religiously and therefore I am the one that's stable." From there all hell broke loose. I was called an f#@!%'n b*&% over and over. He screamed yelled and accused me for the rest of the evening. The next day I felt strong enough to move all of his clothes into our guest room and told him he can stay there until he can control himself because I will no longer be talked to this way. This started WW3! He yelled more obscenities and and threatened me that he is not paying our mortgage payment again (which is under my name, too) and we can let the bank take it and "that's it, we're getting divorced!" He then proceeded to call my ten year old to him and tell him that he will be the man of the house. That he needs to be strong. That we are divorcing and he can eventually choose who he wants to live with. My ten year old came into my room with tears rolling down his face and could barely breathe.

I grabbed my son and ran to the church just before a previously scheduled appt. The Bishop listened and gave advice and ended with much needed blessings. In my son's blessing he said, "Heavenly Father has heard my son's prayers and has shed tears for him and his siblings. He is aware of our situation and wants my son to know that his Father is leading his family in the opposite direction of how Heavenly Father would want him to." I was blessed with many things I needed to but most importantly he validated that my husband was indeed intentionally practicing unrighteous marital dominion. That he will soften his heart to the point that he will be able to listen to what I have to say but it will be up to him as to whether he will come to a full repentance on his own and will seek and follow medical help. If he does not do these things Heavenly Father will bless me to care for my children with a roof over heads and with every needful blessing. But also remind me that material things are of no importance. The Bishop then in turn followed me home and took my Husband out for almost two hours.

The following day I asked my husband to help me personally be clean of any wrongdoing and allow me to correct or repent of anything I've done wrong in our marriage. I asked him to leave me a list of 10 things I've done that have caused all of his mistrust towards me. In the morning he left me a note of 10 Things he loves about me!?! Later that day and that night you could still cut the air it was so thick with anger and animosity from him. The kids and I slept for two nights in my bedroom with the door locked, I slept little with one eye open.

I finally packed us up and left for my sisters house in Idaho Falls, Idaho with only enough gas to get us there. My husband never made an attempt to reach me on my cell. It's been four nights and tonight we're in Salt Lake staying the night at my parents delaying the enivitable confrontation at home. Apparently my Dad called and offered to take him to lunch today and talk, he made up an excuse my husband asked my Dad where I was and when I would be home. I live 35min. from my parents and my kids need to get back to school. I'm debating the consequences between ultimatums. Kick him out for at least 3 months and if he does not get help I have no choice. Or, let him stay but give him a time line to complete anger management, sexual addiction (porn), and counseling for us all. I guess ultimately the power remains in his hands as to whether our marriage survives. Do I have to be willing to allow him that power? I suppose for my children's sake I do have to give him every opportunity. I hate that, I hate that once again I am sucking it up while waiting for him to repent......or not!

Thank you again for giving me the conformation of his abuse and the courage to finally after 13 years stick up for myself! Any more advice on alternate ultimatums or a better idea for a better outcome would be appreciated as I am very scared to go home.

Thank You!

Edited January 20, 2010 by mililani
More to write

[applepansy]

Have you called your bishop?

[JudoMinja]

Sounds like he just proved the point, that he is definitely abusive and he refuses to accept his responsibility in the matter. Good job handling things in a constructive manner even though he refused to be constructive with you.

Remember, a relationship only works when both parties do their part. His blaming you clearly shows he is not doing his part nor is he willing to. The faster you can get him out of your life and the lives of your children the better.

Get all the help you can from outside sources, and keep communicating with people. Make sure you have someone to call in case of an emergency, and a place to escape should it become necessary. Should his abuse show any signs of becoming physical don't hesitate to up the notch and flee the situation.

No possession is more important than your life and the lives of your children. If he won't leave the house and you feel threatened and unsafe, get out of there.

If it were me, I would go ahead and file for the divorce and a restraining order right now. Since the mortgage is in your name, he can't say you're kicking him out of his house.

[NeuroTypical]

I guess ultimately the power remains in his hands as to whether our marriage survives. Do I have to be willing to allow him that power?

A marriage is two people working together. If one doesn't have any power, it's not a marriage.

Any more advice on alternate ultimatums or a better idea for a better outcome would be appreciated as I am very scared to go home.

I think the advice I gave in your prior thread is still good advice.

But one extra thing to think about: When there are kids involved, divorce doesn't end your relationship with your husband, it just changes it. Assuming he wants anything to do with his kids, you two will have some level of interaction at least until the kids are up and out of the house.

I wish I had better advice.

[WillowTheWhisp]

You have faced him and confronted him with the problem. All he did in response is turn that around and blame you. Yet you are not in the wrong here. You did well to contradict him about the medication.

Your Bishop, and Heavenly Father through your Bishop's blessing, have confirmed what I think you already knew.

You have already slept in that house with him in fear with your door locked. You have told us you are afraid of his anger. He is the one upsetting the children, not you. Please for their sake as well as yours get out of danger. If the house is in your name you can legally kick him out can't you? Please take expert advice and do the best for yourself and your children. None of you should have to go through this.

[MarginOfError]

Perhaps I'm feeling the wrong emotion for this, but the word that best describes what I'm feelign right now is "Woohoo!"

I know this is hard still and that it will hurt for a long time to come, but stick with it. Keep your focus on protecting the long term health and interests of you and your children.

We're all very proud of you for taking the stand that you did.

[Wingnut]

So, I have a few thoughts on the situation. I know that you're worried about your kids and school, and such. If it were me, I'd stay the 35 minutes away and drive them to school each day, but I know that probably isn't an option financially. Do you have a trusted friend closer to home that you could stay with?

I'm also concerned about some kind of retribution from your husband if/when you return home. He knows now that you're willing to walk out (and that you'll do it again) and that it'll be harder for him to intimidate you into staying and continuing to be subservient. On one hand, this could be a good thing -- an eye-opener for him. He may decide to change (or just leave) because he knows that you're not paralyzed by fear anymore. On the other hand, he may escalate things in an attempt to regain and maintain control and the fear factor. He may become physically abusive. I have no doubt that if he does, that you will leave again. It'll be easier to do it a second time, now that you've already done it once.

Here's the thing that really concerns me, though. I've heard of emotionally abusive husbands who are so controlling that their wives have no freedom whatsoever: spark plugs or other key pieces of an engine are removed from the wife's car, no cell phone allowed, etc. If you try to leave him and find that your car will not start, call a friend immediately. Don't call family who lives 35 minutes away. Call someone you can trust who will drop everything to come get you and will be there in five minutes.

I hope it doesn't come to that, but you should be prepared if it does.

[Prodigal_Son]

Mililani:

I'm glad you're safe at present, though I'd like more information (if it's posted in some other thread, you could just link to it):

* What are your longterm hopes for your marriage?

* Has he always been like this? Or did it come with the porn habit or something else? (I.E. is there an "old him" that he could possibly return to?)

* Have you been honest in any/all assessments of what hand you might have played in his current state?

------------------------

Please don't interpret these questions as any accusation of/towards you.

Rather, I'm wondering if your husband is dealing with a "temporary insanity" period of life that he might be snapped out of?

[Misshalfway]

Hi Miliani. I am sorry for your situation and the pain coming from all of it. But I have to say that the ultimatum stuff bothers me a bit. If you just had addiction to worry about, then maybe keeping the door open might be healthy for you. But because you have abuse, I just don't feel comfortable with the ultimatums because he seems like the kind of guy that will manipulate and use the space you allow against you. Maybe telling someone to divorce is the wrong advice. I certainly wouldn't substitute any of this for what God would say, but it feels really clear to me that you should get as far away from this man as you can and protect your kids from his corosive influence.

I would get some therapy too so you can establish yourself in the strongest emotional position. If he is dodging your father and asking about your whereabouts, it seems that he will do anything to get to you and widdle you down to a weak thing he can hurt again.

Sorry if that is too straight forward.

[Wingnut]

Mililani:

I'm glad you're safe at present, though I'd like more information (if it's posted in some other thread, you could just link to it):

http://www.lds.net/forums/preserving-marriage-between-man-woman/29368-can-emotionally-abusive-husbands-doing-unintentionally.html

[mililani]

I just got my first msg. from my husband since I left on Saturday. He said he loves me, misses me, and is sorry for what he puts me through.........and the cycle begins again.........Although this time I feel empowered as I have felt so much support from this forum and recieved invaluable advice I have found strength to follow. I carried your words in my head as I stood up to him during his rampage (even though I was scared to death I was prevoking him to the next level.)

It's weird that when he gets like that his face almost physically changes. His eyes seem dark, empty, and full of rage.

I miss the husband he used to be 10 years ago (pre-porn) I wonder if the divorce I intend on carrying out will make his problem worse. My only regret would be seeing him humbled to his old self but knowing it's too late. Too much damage and lack of trust.

Divorce is also terrifying to me. I never dreamed I would be a single mom and carry all of the stipulations that will come with it.

Edited January 20, 2010 by mililani
More to Say

[Misshalfway]

I just got my first msg. from my husband since I left on Saturday. He said he loves me, misses me, and is sorry for what he puts me through.........and the cycle begins again.........

Yes. But its also life handing you another opportunity to break the cycle. :)

Strength to you.

[mililani]

To Loudmouth_Morman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From what I can tell, as much as he needs to do a complete 180 in the direction he's going, you also need to become someone strong enough to not be in such a situation. I'm only guessing here, but I'm thinking it would be a huge struggle for you to be in anything other than such an abusive situation. In other words, my gut reaction is that you'll have to work hard to avoid either repeatedly going back to him with nothing ever changing, or ending up with your next abusive future ex-husband.

LM

This quote from your post really offends me! I have made the choice to stay in this marriage as we are counseled to "Turn the other cheek, be Christlike/Forgive, Never get divorced, etc." I have tried for 13 years to be the best person I could in my situation. I have been here to give my husband every opportunity. And I thought I was doing the best for my children in trying everything to make things work.

Then came the time two weeks ago when I found and posted my situation on this forum.

I realized that enough is enough. I feel as though you are insinuating I am a stupid beaten down lady. I'm actually very smart and successful. After my marriage dissolves I don't believe I will ever remarry.

Edited January 20, 2010 by mililani

[Loving_Wife]

I think that LM was trying to say, but could be wrong and hope LM will clarify, but statics have proven over and over again that it is difficult to break the cycle. Many times those that have been abused return repeatedly to their abuser. Once the abused is able to leave the original abuser and not go back many times the abused tends to find another controlling and or abusive person.

I would hope that LM was not trying to offend you but that instead only bring to your attention that leaving an abusive spouse is hard, but breaking the cycle is even harder.

*ETA*

I really have no advice to your current situation. As someone else already stated I would be very careful. The honeymoon period is a difficult place to be. By honeymoon I mean he realizes that right now he has NO control over you and cannot use the kids against you. That changes once you are back in the house. Statically the first week or so is "perfect" but the abuser cannot maintain the false "I was wrong, I'm sorry" attitude for long and things go back to where they were, usually worse than they were.

I would second having a safe person closer than 35 minutes away and would even suggest having someone that you, personally, check in with every day. If you don't check in the safe person should have the police do a "welfare check."

I'll keep praying for you and the children!

Edited January 20, 2010 by Loving_Wife
hit post to fast lol

[phatbac]

i hope everything works out for the best for you and your situation!

[dazed-and-confused]

i, too, want to express my sorrow for your pain and that of your children. this is where you need to be strong...to break the cycle of abuse taking place to you and the kids. you have done what you need to do for a very long time, perhaps too long, in trying to work out this situation with your husband. it hasnt worked. so now YOU need to take charge and say, ENOUGH. do not go back to the old pattern of accepting his apologies...he needs serious help.

and so do you. people that are in abusive relationships for a long period of time get used to it in a way....the abuse almost becomes a kind of "normal" state for the abused. it leaves scars that you may not know exist yet....and your children as well. PLEASE seek some kind of professional help for yourself and your children. whether or not your husband ever seeks it...you need to as soon as possible.

prayers for you and yours

[JudoMinja]

This quote from your post really offends me! I have made the choice to stay in this marriage as we are counseled to "Turn the other cheek, be Christlike/Forgive, Never get divorced, etc." I have tried for 13 years to be the best person I could in my situation. I have been here to give my husband every opportunity. And I thought I was doing the best for my children in trying everything to make things work.

Then came the time two weeks ago when I found and posted my situation on this forum.

I realized that enough is enough. I feel as though you are insinuating I am a stupid beaten down lady. I'm actually very smart and successful. After my marriage dissolves I don't believe I will ever remarry.

I understand how you feel. I felt the same way with my husband. There is a scripture in D&C (can't remember the exact reference, but I will look it up when I get a moment to do so) that gave me great comfort after I decided to leave him. I too felt like I needed to turn the other cheek and that leaving was very unChristlike. However, this scripture explained how we should handle a situation where an "enemy" comes against our family.

We should forgive them, yes. As long as they approach us repentantly. However, the Lord will not hold it against us if we decide to deal justly with them should they not repent. If the offender has not been repentant, we are not required to forgive. This is the councel offered for the first three times an enemy commits an offense against our family. The fourth time, we are to allow judgement to take hold on the offender.

I feel this fits the repetitive nature of an abusive home. The Lord understands what you are going through, and he wants you to know that you do not need to keep turning the other cheek forever. When it comes to defending yourself and your family, you can return righteous judgement upon your enemies.

Also, I do not think LM meant to insinuate that you are a stupid beaten down lady. The sad fact of the matter is, most women in abusive relationships get stuck in a cycle, either returning again and again to the same abuser or falling victim to multiple abusers over and over again. If you seek out counseling (and I think you should- I have and have found it very helpful), the main purpose of your visits will be to teach you how to recognize warning signs and what to do so that you do not end up in a repeat relationship.

I know I am a smart and successful person as well. I was shocked that I even ended up in an abusive home, because I thought it was only dim-witted, bar-hopping, sex-driven women that ended up with abusive men. But here I am, in the middle of a divorce, because my husband used to beat me into submission. Repetition can easily happen, even when you are sure you are smart enough to avoid it. Just thinking you are too smart to end up like that again can be a sign of pride that will cloud your mind, because you will be unwilling to accept helpful advice.

Abusers know how to be subtle. They know how to work their way into your life and increase their control gradually so that you hardly recognize it. The only way you will not end up in an abusive relationship again is if you learn how to watch for and recognize early warning signs of potential abuse. Never remarrying may seem like the right answer now- I know I considered it, but you will never receive the full blessings of heaven if you do not seek out your eternal companion.

[ryanh]

Mililani, don't worry about what LoudMouth said. He honestly means well, and feels that sometimes it is best to try to motivate people to get out of a situation with a swift kick in the rear. Most everyone understand that an abused person is not responsible for being beaten into that position of submission. It's just a matter of differing perspectives.

Thank you very much for the update. I was worried that "it" had hit the fan. And apparently it did.

The cycle of remorse, contrition, and make-up is very typical. Don't buy it! It will take months to know if he is sincere or not.

Again, I'll recommend the site You Are Not Crazy. In the site, there is discussion about what it will take for him to clean up his act, how he can prove it is safe for you, etc, etc. I won't try to white-wash it - it is unlikely that he can come back to where it is needed to make a marriage. And until he does, there is no point in going back as the cycle will start again. It has to be a complete change before living together again.

There is a recovery center in UT County that also deals with abusers if he is serious about fixing things.

Did you by chance record any of that rant like I suggested? Had you done so, you could have a protective order forcing him out of the house already. Do get a recorder if you haven't done so already.

Borrow money and get a lawyer. Use the lawyer to get a protective order, move him out of the house, and force upon him a legal support order so that he has to continue paying the mortgage, groceries, gas, etc.

And, I would highly suggest not interacting with him AT ALL at this time. Get your ducks in a row, get him out so you and the kids can continue to live, and then worry about discussing with him what the next steps are. KEEP the power you have over him right now, and don't start talking. That's what I'd advise.

Edited January 20, 2010 by ryanh
Fix hyperlink

[ADoyle90815]

I second the recommendation for that website. Another thing I recommend is the book, "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" as that helped me when I was also in an abusive marriage to someone just like your husband. I don't blame you for being afraid, as leaving is the most dangerous time for an abused spouse. Getting out now decreases the chances of your children continuing the cycle either as abusers or victims.

[mormonwifey]

Mililani,

YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT BELIEVING A MAN ONCE HE HAS ABUSED YOU IN ANY WAY.MY SISTER WAS WITH A MAN WHO ABUSED HER,THEN WOULD SAY HE WAS SORRY AND SO MUCH MORE.IT STEADILY GOT WORSE,THEN ONE DAY,SHE DISAPPEARED.SHE IS BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN MURDERED BY HER HUSBAND.SO MANY WOMEN GO THROUGH THIS AND DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.I KNOW WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO TURN OUR BACKS ON MARRIAGE,BUT YOU SHOULD NEVER BECOME A STATISTIC EITHER.MY FAMILY IS LIVING A NIGHTMARE.READ MY WEB SITE AND THE STORY ON ID ABOUT HER AND SEE WHAT YOU THINK AFTER WARDS.

THE WEBSITE IS........

Hope Meek (1977 - 2002)

and the story on id link is.....

The Criminal Report Daily : Investigation Discovery

[secretsister]

Mililani,

I'm so sorry you have had to go through this. I have just gotten myself out of an abusive marriage too, so I know how heart wrenching it is when you try to be Christ-like, try to follow all of the counsel you hear about how to have a successful marriage and love more. In a marriage such as this, it seems that the more you give, the more you try, the more you turn the other cheek, the more they see you as weak and the abuse gets worse.

Then, of course, the cycle includes the part where they love you and treat you wonderfully for a time, making it even harder to give up trying.

Mililani, believe the others when they say it will eventually become physical abuse, if it hasn't already. Have an escape plan, with a bag for you and your children ready to go. It was my hope, too, that my husband would be humbled by losing me or by being confronted by church leaders... that he would get the mental health treatment he needed...he didn't. Looking back, I wish that, while I was waiting to see, I had prepared for the end of the marriage financially and legally. Abusers get even nastier when it comes time for court. I'm so sorry. (I see that you confronted him too. In my experience, once I got the nerve to confront him, the abuse got much, much worse. Be careful, please.)

I do not know where you live, but I called the Domestic Violence hotline. You do not have to be in imminent danger or even still with him to call. I am now getting counseling from someone who has been trained specifically for abusive relationships and it has been invaluable! She even goes with me to court! (This gives moral support as well as the judge seeing the presence of a DV counselor with you.)

Loudmouth "seemed" cold hearted in the statements about you ending up in the same boat again. In our situation, it is easy to get defensive.... we've had to defend ourselves for so long! However, I am beginning to see how my best qualities are also the ones that attract predators. I am learning, thru the DV counseling, how to spot an abuser early on. This, after my second abusive marriage.... I was SO sure my recent ex was not abusive and that he was a good man. He even came recommended as a "righteous priesthood holder" by stake leaders. They are good at fooling everyone! Even the strong and smart ones like us!

I'm sorry you are going through this. I hope you have good support with friends and family. You sound like a strong woman, you will be OK in the end.

Secretsister