Perturbed


JudoMinja
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Ok, so there is a guy that has been interested in me since just before Thanksgiving. For those who don't already know my story- I am still technically married and going through a divorce, so when he asked me on a date I told him no. He already knew I was going through a divorce or he would never have asked as the ring on my finger is quite obvious, but after I said no, he said he'd still like to get to know me and what would I be okay with.

I told him friendly communication in writing and/or in groups would be allowable as, of course, such things do occur between friends. It seemed I gave him an inch and he took a mile, which by now I'm seeing seems to be his motto.

He won't stop talking about marriage. He says he's prayed about us and he knows I'm "the one". Funny that when I took the time to pray about it I felt more like the Lord was saying "this one's up to you". I think God wanted me to go through the decision-making process, to get to know the guy and assess his character before coming to my answer. Doing so has been good for me, as my previous relationship was my ONLY relationship and was abusive. I needed a little experience in a healthy relationship, and when I got to know him well enough that I came to the conclusion NO I felt at peace with my decision.

His biggest problem, the one that's got me perturbed, is that he WON'T take no for an answer. He won't QUIT. When I was still in the get-to-know-you stage, I had to reset the boundaries twice as he tried to move in too fast, becoming romantic when now clearly isn't the time for it.

I've told him that anything romantic right now would be adulterous, and while he agreed it seemed as though he didn't really care. I've told him it makes me uncomfortable, and he always stops and apologizes but that doesn't change the fact that he KEEPS TRYING. It's like he thinks its better to ask forgiveness than permission.

A couple examples.

My family likes to go to the movies on Monday nights if there is a good one playing at the cheap theater in our town. When I was still comfortable with the situation, I told him about it and invited him along. Since then, he has come whether invited or not. As it is a public place I can't really say don't come. However, the last time he came, he spent practically the entire movie trying to get me to hold hands with him. I was even curled up leaning all the way over to the opposite seat, and he kept reaching for my hand. Eventually he tapped me, gave me a pouty look and motioned with his hand and I had to say, flat out, NO.

Then, today- He's been sitting with us at church and coming with me to help with my son while I teach my primary class, again univited. I don't mind the help, so I didn't turn it down, and it would be perfectly all right if he'd keep his "romancing" in check. However, during sacrament he started rubbing my back. I turned away, leaned away, put my son between us, even scooched away before he finally asked me if it was making me uncomfortable.

I DON'T want to marry this guy. He's not a bad guy, but he's definitely not the one for me. He's far too overbearing, and I'm too afraid of confrontation to say anything to his face. I already told him my stance in a letter. I explained that my decision on the matter is no, that I feel his behavior has proven he is far too impatient and he should look for a marriage with someone else, that there are other things about his personality I've observed that simply make us imcompatible even though they aren't really wrong and I wouldn't expect him to change them- just things that show we wouldn't get along as a married couple and he should look for someone else, that I'm simply not ready for a relationship on any level especially considering I'm still married, and it's just quite simply NO.

But he still doesn't get it. He thinks that letter was a test, that I am trying to test his patience. I wrote that letter a few weeks ago and the thing at church happened TODAY. Any moment that we are around each other (church, institute, and the rare occassion that my family wants to invite him along for something like one of those Monday night movies), he's always trying to pull me aside so we can have private chats on "where we stand", "how's he doing", trying to prove to me that things will work out. He's stuck on US.

Then, when he can't pull me aside, he keeps making little comments about things like "What would you do without me" - (usually when he's doing something with my son that he likes), or "I would never do that to you" - (when a comment about stuff my husband would do comes up), or "You know I'll take care of you", or "Anything you need or I can do for you, you just let me know and I'll be there at the drop of a hat". And he's always asking me if I talk to people about him. Whenever I bring up something about a conversation I've had with someone he asks this- my counselor, my mom and dad, my brother, the bishop...

It's downright annoying, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm sick of him, but I've already cut off all non-public interaction. I can't tell him not to come to institute. I can't tell him not to come to church. I can't tell him not to come to the theater. I already talked to my parents about it, and they aren't going to invite him along on any family things anymore. He's still there, he's still bugging me, and even though I thought I made it quite obvious I'm not interested he still talks to me about marriage and keeps trying to prove himself to me and keeps trying to be romantic.

So, what do I do now? I'm open to any and all suggestions. Frankly, I'm just fed up.

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Personally? I would stop all communication with the guy. Tell him up front, stop talking to me, stop contacting me. I would stop going to the movie theater for a while--do movies at home in the meantime. If he sits by you at church, I would look ata him in the eye and get up and move to another seat.

If you are wanting to have some kind of relationship with him after the divorce, then you'll have to figure out something else. But it seems to me that he is not respectful (that's not something one learns quickly if they don't have it).

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This is a tough one. . . but only for you. I fully believe in the four seasons and a road trip rule for relationships. You need to know someone for four seasons before you really know them. How does he handle finances, climate changes (and these really do effect how people act) what happens when it’s hot or when it gets cold and how does he handle seasons, (Christmas, Valentine’s Day, 4th of July) we all do things and/or have traditions and you have to know what his are. The road trip can be a full day away to someplace that has to be planned well in advance. This is a time when just the two of you can sit in the car, train or plane and just talk as you travel to a location you both want to explore. Can he get you home on time is a big question here.

You wrote that you are coming out of an abusive relationship. Often the abusive relationship is one of possession and control. Many different things can trigger abuse but one of those causes can be a lack of control on the other party’s part. It seems this gentleman is trying to control you, or refocus you attention/affection to him. It’s as if he wants to be the center of your universe.

Getting you and your son through what I am sure is a difficult divorce right now should be the center of your attention. Your son and his well being (emotions) should be the primary concern or the “center of your universe right now (I’m not so much lecturing you here as I am trying to give you something to explain to the knucklehead pursuing you).

Because he continues to pursue you and doesn’t take “No” as an answer I think he could be just as dangerous as the one you are divorcing. You may have to explain this to knucklehead.

Good luck.

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My step dad has a few guns if you want to pick one. :devil:

Seriously though, that does seem a sticky situation. You might consider asking your bishop for advice. Even if he can't really give any, you still have the upper hand. What I mean is that if the bishop knows the story before hand, then if you do confront the guy and he doesn't like it then he can't try to defame you.

It might sound crazy that he could do that, but I get the vibe that he might if it came down to it. Its obvious he has his mind set on a physical relationship since he can't take his time and wait for it to not be adulterous. Maybe I am paranoid (okay I am. I get it from my Mom. :) ), but above all else, I'd be careful.

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Personally? I would stop all communication with the guy. Tell him up front, stop talking to me, stop contacting me. I would stop going to the movie theater for a while--do movies at home in the meantime. If he sits by you at church, I would look ata him in the eye and get up and move to another seat.

That's what I feel like needs to happen before he gets it, and I think I needed to hear that from someone else. It's just really hard for me to be so blunt and harsh like that. That's why my original no was in a letter. It's easier for me to tell people things that are really important to me in writing, because then they have time to assess my thoughts before I see them again in person. It's a way for me to avoid confrontation.

I know thats not exactly healthy, that some confrontation is necessary, and my counselor talked to me about this too. Lol. She says I'm REALLY good at avoiding confrontation. It's the way I've always been and the abuse I went through certainly didn't make it any better.

Anyway, I guess now I'm just trying to syche myself up to do exactly that.

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You wrote that you are coming out of an abusive relationship. Often the abusive relationship is one of possession and control. Many different things can trigger abuse but one of those causes can be a lack of control on the other party’s part. It seems this gentleman is trying to control you, or refocus you attention/affection to him. It’s as if he wants to be the center of your universe.

Because he continues to pursue you and doesn’t take “No” as an answer I think he could be just as dangerous as the one you are divorcing. You may have to explain this to knucklehead.

Thats something that worries me too. He keeps trying to reassure me that he'd never treat me the way my husband did, but what he's doing right now is pretty much just that. He's not listening to my concerns or feelings on the matter and keeps pursuing what he wants. I worry that if I were to have a relationship with him I'd get walked all over at the very least, if not abused all over again. It's the biggest thing that helped me come to my decision to tell him no.

Your son and his well being (emotions) should be the primary concern or the “center of your universe right now (I’m not so much lecturing you here as I am trying to give you something to explain to the knucklehead pursuing you).

Exactly. I haven't been that blunt with him on that yet, but I think I should.

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My step dad has a few guns if you want to pick one. :devil:

Lol. My dad has a gun too. :P

Seriously though, that does seem a sticky situation. You might consider asking your bishop for advice. Even if he can't really give any, you still have the upper hand. What I mean is that if the bishop knows the story before hand, then if you do confront the guy and he doesn't like it then he can't try to defame you.

After my talk with my parents last night, my dad said he would talk to the bishop about it, which is nice. I had talked with him about it at the time I'd decided to tell the guy no, when I thought the pursuit was going to come to an end. Now, my dad says he's going to see if the bishop can get him to back off more for me, so I don't have to be confrontational (my dad really hates confrontation too and understands), as this guy technically isn't even supposed to be coming to our ward but another ward. I didn't know which ward was his, because he claimed he had no idea where his records are and isn't sure, but my dad is the ward clerk and says he told him which ward he's supposed to be in.

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I agree with the others, that a confrontation (with some friends/family near by for support, and to hopefully keep him from causing a scene) is deffinately in order. Also, I would start showing up to things late, like Institute and Church. Show up late and squeeze in between some people so that he can't come sit down next to you. Arrange with someone in the ward to save a spot for you and your son that's away from wherever creepy-stalker guy is sitting.

His behavior is completely disrespectful, and hopefully a firm "No!" and a complete avoidance of him in private and in public will get the message across.

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Thanks to everyone that's answered so far. It's all stuff I needed to hear. It seems that mainly I need to get over my fear of confrontation and be straight-forward, blunt, and tell him to let things go to his face. It's going to be hard for me, but I think it will be good for me. Secondly, getting help and support from those around me (thanks wingnut :) ).

If anyone has any more advice I'd be glad to hear it. Probably what I really need- if there is any- is ways to overcome my fear so I can do what I know I need to and stand my ground with him in person instead of just in writing. Body language obviously hasn't worked, so I'm going to have to be verbal, which is definitely not my forte.

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I would tell him:

A. I'm still married and am not looking. period.

B. When I'm ready to date, I'll contact him if interested.

C. God doesn't answer questions in the way he thinks. He needs to get the bishop's advice on his supposed answer. (Of course, if he IS the bishop, then you have a big problem....).

D. If he persists, then threaten to get a restraining order for the stalker.

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This is also another really easy one. Have one of your bigger guy friends confront him on your behalf using fear to deter any further contact. :)

I'll do it. Im not big and scary, in fact Im really kinda beautiful, but I get the message across in no uncertain terms. :megaman::shuriken:

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Sounds like harassment to me. you should definitely tell him that you don't want to see or be seen with him even at "public" events. You should keep him away from your kids. If his behavior persists after this typr of firmness, you should tell him you will seek a restraining order, and if it persists after that you should get a restraining order.

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This is also another really easy one. Have one of your bigger guy friends confront him on your behalf using fear to deter any further contact. :)

I'll do it. Im not big and scary, in fact Im really kinda beautiful, but I get the message across in no uncertain terms. :megaman::shuriken:

Lol. Unfortunately I have no bigger guy friends around here. Just my dad and my brother. So, it's kinda up to me. My dad's willing to help but he's more of an avoidance kind of person (like me). My brother... *shrug*. He seems convinced that this guy will just grow on me and his determination is a sign that he'll do whatever it takes to be with me, even change the things I don't like. Hah. That's just looking for abuse.

So, my dad said he'll talk to the bishop. I'm going to talk to the institute teacher on Wednesday. And I've really got to suck it up and put him in his place verbally. That's the hardest part. In fact, just thinking about it scares me to death. That, I think, is where I really need the help.

The first post was really just a vent and trying to figure out what to do now. Now, I know what I need to do, but I've got to work up the guts to do it.

I used to be scared of confrontation before I even got in an abusive relationship. I never raise my voice for anything, and people are always shocked if I ever seem even slightly upset. So, it takes something big to get me into a confrontation.

In high school, my best-friend was used by a guy for sex and I stood up to him and told him off for it. It took just about everything out of me to do that, and I was shaking afterwards.

Now, just thinking about it brings on that shaky fear, so I don't know how I'm going to manage to even DO it. If I ever said anything even remotely forceful or even just had a bit of a frustrated tone in my voice over something with my husband, I ended up getting beat for it. Since I've left, the worst confrontation I've been in is a heated argument/misunderstanding with my mom in which I ended up fleeing to my room and crying.

That was my mom. Someone I trust and talk to all the time. Someone I know very well and understand very well. And yet, I was still terrified. Just the tension reminded me of that relationship.

How do I stand my ground and tell this guy firmly enough that he understands to back off, when it scares me this much?

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Pray for the Spirit when you are ready to do the big talk. Pray that your nerves will be softened, that the Spirit will guide your words. Even if you still have those fears right before the talk, you'll be amazed how the Spirit can guide you.

Here's an example of fear with me. I have a horrible dread with public speaking. It's pretty serious as I avoid coming to church early so I won't be asked to say the prayer, if someone passes me a paper in Sunday School to read later, I hide it or give someone else (pretty pathetic I know) but recently I gave a baby blessing to our first child. I was absolutely horrified as much as 3 weeks before this blessing and I remember pouring out my heart the week of the blessing, like help me, guide me, even bless my vocal chords, everything.....let me tell you as soon as I walked up to the microphone with the baby and seeing my family there, the Spirit flooded through me, like a sun was waking up inside me and as soon as I opened my mouth, it was such a spiritual experience, I loved the experience....

It can be positive, especially when the Spirit is guiding you...

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Just be firm but polite. Dont meet him privately either. Make sure you let him know in a semi-public place like after church or or something where others are around and you both gotta be there anyways... go off to the side of course... your goal isnt to humiliate him. Dont hug him when your done and dont say "we can still be friends" or "i'll see ya around" This invites false hope in some of us love struck slobs. :)

And then allow him a chance to speak his mind. Then tell him that you've heard him but that you still hold your same feelings and politely end the conversation and leave. If he is a respectable man he will let it die there... if not then you have an immature boy on your hands. At that point see above advice. If you dont have any male friends hire some or borrow from your girl friends who do!

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I am also not one for confrontation, when I get in verbal disagreements with people I usually end up shaking afterward. However, as a teen my mom made me go out of my comfort zone to build character, so even if I don’t like it I still do it because I know I can and that it will be better after I am done.

My advice, write down what you want to say to him, rehearse it in your head. Stand in front of a mirror and pretend you are talking to him, go through the conversation you want to have, even say it out loud. Decide when and where you want to bring this up to him, make sure it is a safe situation for you, someplace where when you are done you can go be around people you feel safe with. Maybe take him aside at church or something similar. When the situation comes up you will have rehearsed it, and will know what you want to say. Make sure you state your feelings clearly and bluntly.

I come from a family where we use tact to a fault. We will dance around the issue and say whatever we have to say so subtly that it barely sounds like we are saying something negative. However, when it has come down to certain people in my life (such as men who were interested in me) I learned that sometimes you just have to leave the tact at home and bring a basket full of bluntness. There are some people who just don’t get it until you smack them upside the head with a firm no and your reasons why.

I agree with what most others on here have said, make sure he knows that you really mean no. And if he acts like you are just testing him or something, make sure to tell him that you never ever want anything to do with him from now on. Make it clear. Be firm, be strong. And then when it is all done, I give you complete permission to break down and shake. But be strong until it is over and he is gone.

I know this is going to be difficult, I really do. But it will make you a stronger person and as my mother always told me, “It builds character.”

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If we were friends in real life and I had license to be blunt with you I would say

"There are lots of guys like this out there, you need to grow up and tell him to leave you alone. Sure, he's not a 'bad guy' but so what. The relationship didn't work out, time to move on. Don't let him bully you, because that's exactly what he's doing. It's ok to be forceful and even down right rude when people don't seem to be able to understand your 'social clues.'"

I've met plenty of people like this, male and female. They seem to not understand what is socially acceptable. This doesn't make him a bad person, but you need to stand up for yourself. Yes, confrontation sucks, but sometimes it's needed with people like this.

Also a warning. In my experience, once I stop beating around the bush and make it very clear that I don't want to be around that person anymore, they usually STILL don't get it. It might take some effort on your part. When you go to the movies, talk to your friends/family and make sure you're sitting between two of them.

When you nicely let someone know you're not interested and they don't back off, you need to be more forceful and I don't want you to feel guilty about it. Should you feel guilty? NO. So if you do, ignore it, take a step back from the situation and realize what it is you SHOULD do, which will be to not compromise yourself.

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Thanks again to everyone. Going through the process of writing this down so I could post it on here was helpful, as it made what was happening more clear even to myself. The kind words of advice were wonderful and helped me see what I was missing. The more forceful advice (Alana :) thanks) helped give me a mental boost.

I will see him again tomorrow at institute, and that is when I plan on taking care of the matter. I'm writing down what I plan on saying so I can rehearse it and get it rooted in me so when I freak out like I know I'm going to I don't forget it. I'm going to show it to a friend at institute and tell them not to let me leave without saying that to him so I can't run away from it.

Thank you all. I know I need to stand up for myself and quit beating around the bush. Perhaps, this is what this whole thing all boils down to, why the Lord put this guy in my path at this time. Without an experience like this to give me the courage to face confrontation, I'd probably always be running away from guys and relationships. I know there are many men out there like this and I'm sure to run into more, so I need to be prepared and I need to build some confidence in my ability to handle letting them go.

I will check this board again before going to institute tomorrow as I have one last question. Any further advice on how to fight the fear? Mostly now, as I picture this conversation happening, images of fights with my husband keep popping in my head. It's very unnerving, and no matter what I do I can't seem to shake them. Even now, I'm freezing up at the thought of it.

I know he's not my husband and this won't happen. I'll be confronting him in a public place with other people around so I know there's no real danger to be afraid of, even if he would react with anger which I doubt. That knowledge though, doesn't seem to be transferring to the logical part of my brain to that flight instinct so I can calm down.

So, if anyone has any other thoughts on how I can force these images aside and focus on a good outcome for the upcoming confrontation I would really appreciate it.

Thanks.

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These are ways I deal with my fears, as we are two different people I don't know if they will work for you, but it doesn't hurt to try.

Pray, specifically pray for comfort and strength and pray for calm, pray to be comforted so that you can do what you need to do. And when you begin to feel the fear come, whether it is just thinking about it or whether it is when you are talking to him, say a little prayer to Heavenly Father for peace, comfort and strength.

Breathe, practice breathing, practice calming yourself down. Think about it enough to get yourself to the point where you are feeling the fear and then practice calming yourself down. Try to figure out what works for bringing an inner calm. Try taking deep breaths, try thinking of a calm quiet place, try imagining yourself at peace. See what will best calm you down and practice using that to bring you peace.

Also remember that the fear will come. But also tell yourself that you will not let it overcome you, you will move past it and you will get done what needs to be done. Accept that the fear will be there, but make the determination that you will not let it effect you.

Good luck with it, I am sure you will do great!

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Well, things didn't go exactly the way I planned, but I think it turned out alright. I wasn't as firm as I'd intended, but he was actually the one who brought up the conversation, having sensed that something was bothering me.

So, we'll see. At the moment I'm feeling better about it all, but since I wasn't really firm with him I'm afraid I may still have to put up with a confrontation at some point in the future. I just have to wait and see if this little conversation finally did the trick or if he's going to keep pushing the limit.

Thanks for your help everyone.

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Ok, so there is a guy that has been interested in me since just before Thanksgiving. For those who don't already know my story- I am still technically married and going through a divorce, so when he asked me on a date I told him no. He already knew I was going through a divorce or he would never have asked as the ring on my finger is quite obvious, but after I said no, he said he'd still like to get to know me and what would I be okay with.

I told him friendly communication in writing and/or in groups would be allowable as, of course, such things do occur between friends. It seemed I gave him an inch and he took a mile, which by now I'm seeing seems to be his motto.

He won't stop talking about marriage. He says he's prayed about us and he knows I'm "the one". Funny that when I took the time to pray about it I felt more like the Lord was saying "this one's up to you". I think God wanted me to go through the decision-making process, to get to know the guy and assess his character before coming to my answer. Doing so has been good for me, as my previous relationship was my ONLY relationship and was abusive. I needed a little experience in a healthy relationship, and when I got to know him well enough that I came to the conclusion NO I felt at peace with my decision.

His biggest problem, the one that's got me perturbed, is that he WON'T take no for an answer. He won't QUIT. When I was still in the get-to-know-you stage, I had to reset the boundaries twice as he tried to move in too fast, becoming romantic when now clearly isn't the time for it.

I've told him that anything romantic right now would be adulterous, and while he agreed it seemed as though he didn't really care. I've told him it makes me uncomfortable, and he always stops and apologizes but that doesn't change the fact that he KEEPS TRYING. It's like he thinks its better to ask forgiveness than permission.

A couple examples.

My family likes to go to the movies on Monday nights if there is a good one playing at the cheap theater in our town. When I was still comfortable with the situation, I told him about it and invited him along. Since then, he has come whether invited or not. As it is a public place I can't really say don't come. However, the last time he came, he spent practically the entire movie trying to get me to hold hands with him. I was even curled up leaning all the way over to the opposite seat, and he kept reaching for my hand. Eventually he tapped me, gave me a pouty look and motioned with his hand and I had to say, flat out, NO.

Then, today- He's been sitting with us at church and coming with me to help with my son while I teach my primary class, again univited. I don't mind the help, so I didn't turn it down, and it would be perfectly all right if he'd keep his "romancing" in check. However, during sacrament he started rubbing my back. I turned away, leaned away, put my son between us, even scooched away before he finally asked me if it was making me uncomfortable.

I DON'T want to marry this guy. He's not a bad guy, but he's definitely not the one for me. He's far too overbearing, and I'm too afraid of confrontation to say anything to his face. I already told him my stance in a letter. I explained that my decision on the matter is no, that I feel his behavior has proven he is far too impatient and he should look for a marriage with someone else, that there are other things about his personality I've observed that simply make us imcompatible even though they aren't really wrong and I wouldn't expect him to change them- just things that show we wouldn't get along as a married couple and he should look for someone else, that I'm simply not ready for a relationship on any level especially considering I'm still married, and it's just quite simply NO.

But he still doesn't get it. He thinks that letter was a test, that I am trying to test his patience. I wrote that letter a few weeks ago and the thing at church happened TODAY. Any moment that we are around each other (church, institute, and the rare occassion that my family wants to invite him along for something like one of those Monday night movies), he's always trying to pull me aside so we can have private chats on "where we stand", "how's he doing", trying to prove to me that things will work out. He's stuck on US.

Then, when he can't pull me aside, he keeps making little comments about things like "What would you do without me" - (usually when he's doing something with my son that he likes), or "I would never do that to you" - (when a comment about stuff my husband would do comes up), or "You know I'll take care of you", or "Anything you need or I can do for you, you just let me know and I'll be there at the drop of a hat". And he's always asking me if I talk to people about him. Whenever I bring up something about a conversation I've had with someone he asks this- my counselor, my mom and dad, my brother, the bishop...

It's downright annoying, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm sick of him, but I've already cut off all non-public interaction. I can't tell him not to come to institute. I can't tell him not to come to church. I can't tell him not to come to the theater. I already talked to my parents about it, and they aren't going to invite him along on any family things anymore. He's still there, he's still bugging me, and even though I thought I made it quite obvious I'm not interested he still talks to me about marriage and keeps trying to prove himself to me and keeps trying to be romantic.

So, what do I do now? I'm open to any and all suggestions. Frankly, I'm just fed up.

I'd also like to add... that whether or not he's recieved answers to his prayers that you would be a good match for him, he does not have authority oover you, nor authority to recieve revelation for you. Quite frankly if someon came up and told me that they had recieved some sort of revelation from God that i was to be their person, that would raise red flags all over the place.

I'd suggest to let him know that he's not for you, especially if you've been praying- you can probably tell him that you haven't recieved an answer about being married to him... and that if God wanted you to marry him that God would have told you.

But either way I'd definitely say to deny this person, and if you have told him one or two times and he's still hounding you, you may want to warn him that you'll go to the police.. or even skip that and just go to the police.

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