why doesn't moroni's promise "work" for everyone?

[Gwen]

it seems ppl are frequently coming here and asking why everyone who reads the book of mormon doesn't get a testimony of the truth? if we are god's true church like we claim then why doesn't everyone get the same answer?

i came across this quote the other day that expresses exactly what i've always felt is the answer to this question.

President Ezra Taft Benson in a 1972 address quoting Orson F. Whitney from a 1928 general conference address:

“Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of His Church to help it along. They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. … Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a testimony of the truth; while others remain unconverted … the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in His own due time. God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. … We have no quarrel with the Gentiles. They are our partners in a certain sense.”

[NeuroTypical]

why everyone who reads the book of mormon doesn't get a testimony of the truth?

Because Moroni's promise involves more than "read and pray about it". That's a gross simplification of the actual promise.

Moroni 10:4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

1- receive these things

2- ask God if these things are not true

3- in the name of Christ

4- ask with a sincere heart

5- with real intent

6- having faith in Christ

If you have all six of those things, then 'he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost'.

That's the promise. "Read and pray" is missing five of them, as 'read' isn't the same thing as 'receive'.

LM

[Jamie123]

1- receive these things

2- ask God if these things are not true

3- in the name of Christ

4- ask with a sincere heart

5- with real intent

6- having faith in Christ

The last one is probably the most difficult for many people. The BoM assumes that the reader is already a Christian. For anyone else, the promise isn't a lot of use; it would be like telling a Christian he could get a testimony of the truth of the Koran by praying to Allah in the name of Mohammed, and having faith in Mohammed.

[NeuroTypical]

Yep - to make good on Moroni's promise, you have to travel quite a distance yourself. There's another sort of preparatory scripture if that distance seems too long:

Alma 32:27-28 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words. Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

[mnn727]

For a year while I was investigatining the Church I honestly wanted to KNOW if what I was reading and being taught was true, but I got no answer

Finnaly I resolved to DOwhat the Lord wanted me to and I got my answer within a week.

Its that "real Intent" clause. Simply wanting to know does nothing, its the willingness to follow through that counts

Warning: personal opinion ahead

I believe God knows what we are capable of following and doing and won't lead us to more than we can handle.

[Bluejay]

Hi, Gwen.

Spirituality has never come easily for me.

I've concluded that it's because my spirit is broken, disabled or in a coma.

Maybe it will return to functionality sometime.

[InquisitiveSoul]

As I have learned, answers don't always come immediately. I've asked for years about the Book of Mormon. Most of us are impatient people and forget The Lord works in his own way and time. He will give us the answer when we are ready and part of being ready is meeting the conditions Loud Mouth has mentioned.

As I've prepared myself over the years I've finally started to receive answers to my questions. Not all of them have been answers, but I believe they will be addressed by The Lord when we are both ready. In the mean time I have to continue to prepare and do my part. I believe most people who ask haven't fully prepared for the answer yet. If they continue in diligence, they will receive.

[Danite]

I think you guys are right are about a the asking with real intent, meaning that you want to be forgiven of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ by those with the proper authority and receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost. Some folks don't want the Church to be true because then they will have to change their lives, others doubt their ability to be true to the Church and their intent falters.

[marts1]

A fella in our ward took 2 years of intense investigation before he was baptized. He is now the ward mission leader

[ZSEdwardson]

I came across this issue as well, and when I spoke at my Stake confrence as a new member, I have found a simple answer.

I hadn't learned to listen yet.

After I had read the book of mormon, it took a good eight months of something nagging in the back of the head before I started looking at the branches of Mormonism/LDS and four months after that, I walked into my local branch.

[rameumptom]

Abraham Lincoln was probably a judge in at least one of Joseph Smith's trials. However, he never joined the Church in his lifetime. I have no doubt he has done so since. But he was needed as President of the United States during a time when blacks were to receive freedom, and it would not have happened had he been an unelectable Mormon.

[Snow]

why doesn't moroni's promise "work" for everyone?

Reverse polarity?

[Moksha]

.. it would be like telling a Christian he could get a testimony of the truth of the Koran by praying to Allah in the name of Mohammed, and having faith in Mohammed.

I imagine that would work for some given the right life circumstances. In any case, this pray for truth approach sure beats forced conversion anyday.

I wonder if the God gene they spoke of in Time magazine a few years back would have some bearing on one's receptiveness?

[deseretgov]

Heavenly Father might not want everyone to join the Church at this moment. Maybe someone need to learn something important as a catholic first. Maybe they need to have some experience as Muslim first. Not everyone is the same. Heavenly Father knows what we need when we need it and He will guide us in that path. If that path takes a detour through Bhuddism first, who are we to say He is wrong?

[marts1]

Those that are converts who have got caught up in almost everything worldly you can think of, have somewhat a better ability to help those going through the same problems. The person knowing that another has experienced the same, is a benefit on its own. Many times missionairies search out members for this reason.

[prisonchaplain]

There may be some misunderstanding about this promise. Some here know that I recently gave the BoM a one-session, multi-hour scan read-through, praying that God would give me wisdom and discernment. I called this a "modified Moroni prayer," in that I am always open to God's truths, but I was not on the verge of acceptance, simply seeking a nudge across the line.

Some members here have suggested that the Moroni prayer is really meant to be given by one who is "pretty near to convinced" that the BoM is true, and that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. It's not meant so much as a request for direction, but rather as a confirmation. Yet, I would hazzard to guess that more than a few investigators prayed the promise with more of the "If there's anything to this Lord, go ahead and send me a flashing neon sign."

I'm not sure the error is quite the same as "Ye have not because ye ask amiss," but more that the promise appears to be to those who already have "a mustard seed of faith."

[Palerider]

I would think if you pray about it and get an answer, then its important to you. If you pray and recieve no answer, then its not important to you, move on.

[JohnnyRudick]

The last one is probably the most difficult for many people. The BoM assumes that the reader is already a Christian. For anyone else, the promise isn't a lot of use; it would be like telling a Christian he could get a testimony of the truth of the Koran by praying to Allah in the name of Mohammed, and having faith in Mohammed.

Thanks a lot.

You know I know this but I never really gave it much thought.

This is I believe a great observation.

Thanks again:)

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

I have always wondered about this as well. While others have given some answers to this, I find that the answer as to why some would not receive a testimony of the Book of Mormon over those who do receive an answer to the Book of Mormon is revealed in 1 Nephi.

And it came to pass that I, Nephi, ... having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers.

Nephi had great desires to know about the Mysteries of God. He did not just take what his father said at face value, but went and prayed to seek for himself from the Lord as to whether or not what His father said, relayed, and experienced were honestly from God. Notice that when Nephi was visited, his heart was softened. In order for one's heart to be softened, it has to be hardened. It takes great faith for one to exert belief in something they may or may not receive an answer. It was not a "I want to believe" but a desire to know and a desire to believe.

We also know that Laman and Lemuel (Nephi's brothers) had seen angel's, experienced some great miracles in their lives, but still, because of the hardness of their hearts, continually rebelled, ridiculed, and discounted the reality of Truth.

So, why do some receive no answer to this while others do? It is because those who come to the Lord with a hardness of Heart, but a sincere faith in wanting a true desire to know of a surety as to the nature of the Reality of the Book of Mormon, are the one's whose hearts will be softened.

Those who come to the Lord and pray with a hardness of heart, and not wanting to believe and not having a true and honest real desire in their heart, are the ones that do not receive an answer.

Yet, I have prayed with sincerity and real intent, yet I have never received an answer.

The problem is, what we have to take into consideration, is that there are many who have received a testimony of the Book of Mormon, have not received a "Heavenly Vision" or a serious spiritual encounter. Some have returned to reading the Book of Mormon and felt an impression, or a "click". Others describe that they felt relieved, wonderful, and felt a sense of belonging. Even still, some describe that as they read the Book of Mormon, participated in the things the Church does, and developed relationships have slowly built their testimony.

Those who do not receive a testimony are the ones who look for the "burning in the bosom" or a spectacular audible voice that says "Yes Jimmy it is true".

Others may have received an answer and truly discounted it for what it was and reasoned that they had not received a testimony after all.

Another way of looking at this is why are there some who realize their need for Christ and become Born Again when someone shares with them the message of hope, and yet the person next to them denies this and goes on their way.

[marts1]

I was a member for over 20 years and had not recieved any feelings whatsoever about this book and yet I had read from it everyday for the first 7 years. It wasn't until I decided to spend a little more time with it that it started to come alive. Now almost everyday I read from the book, I'm shown the reality of it's great power.

[Snow]

it seems ppl are frequently coming here and asking why everyone who reads the book of mormon doesn't get a testimony of the truth? if we are god's true church like we claim then why doesn't everyone get the same answer?

i came across this quote the other day that expresses exactly what i've always felt is the answer to this question.

President Ezra Taft Benson in a 1972 address quoting Orson F. Whitney from a 1928 general conference address:

"“Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of His Church to help it along. They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. … Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a testimony of the truth; while others remain unconverted … the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in His own due time. God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. … We have no quarrel with the Gentiles. They are our partners in a certain sense.”

That sounds like a poor explanation - that God wouldn't fulfill his promises (Moroni's promise - James 1:5), and thus would withhold gospel blessings in order benefit the Church instead of benefiting the individual asking - it's Machiavellian.

If God wanted to help the Church, why wouldn't He do it himself rather than by manipulating well-intentioned seekers of truth?

[Gwen]

what makes you think the person had/will have blessings withheld? the lord will bless them for doing as he asks. everyone worthy will receive the blessings of the restored gospel. if they are following what they are told to do then they are worthy.

[Dravin]

I'm inclined to think that those who aren't getting an answer aren't meeting the criteria (the other obvious answer, that the promise is false, I am obviously disinclined to believe). I'm kinda with Snow on not agreeing with the idea that one is meeting the conditions stated in the promise and yet it is still being withheld.

I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

If Moroni was a prophet and the promise was extended with authority then the Lord is bound if you are meeting the requirements.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Dravin

[marts1]

God in many instances, works in, what seems to us, mysterious ways.

[Sean1427]

Gwen, as I read your first sentence, I immediately thought of a quote that I wanted to send you. But then as I read further into your post I saw that you had posted the same quote that came to my mind as I began to read your post. Perhaps it's true--great minds do run in the same gutter! In some ways, I believe, the time has to be right for any given individual. And for many, perhaps this life is not the time. I believe the quote you shared supports that possibility. Not everyone is the same, not everyone has the same mission. Some are called to serve in the Church; others are called to serve outside the Church. I live and work in Saudi Arabia and have done so since before 9/11. Because of my experience among the Muslims and peoples of those lands, I have come to appreciate very much the 1978 statement by the First Presidency:

"The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God's light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlight whole nations andn to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals . . . We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation."

The time for most Muslims is not now, nor is the time right for many individuals Moreover, the way I interpret the above statement is that these individuals named along with others had a mission that took them outside the Church.

My father was not born a member; he did not join till much later in life. Many of my paternal ancestors most likely opposed the Mormons of Nauvoo. I have a great uncle who was named after, according to his obituary, "the famous general Thomas Brockman who led the militia against the Mormons of Nauvoo." My mother's family were in Nauvoo and one was given blessed and named by Joseph Smith, and the name he was given was the name of Joseph's brother. My father's side of the family represent all different religions. Yet what's interesting is that my father's patriarchal blessing begins just like anyone who was born in the Church--it states that he was faithful in the pre-existence but thath he chose to be born to a family who were not members of the Church. It further states that he made a covenant that when the time was right for him to goin the Church, he would be instrumental in taking helping his family who were not members of the Church.

In Saudi, we cannot teach, baptize or proselytize. We are instructed by the leadership not to even answer questions. Yet this does not mean that missionary work is not being done. And one of the greatest missionaries is a Muslim Saudi who is a great friend of the members. On his own, without so much as a word of encouragement from us, he distributes copies of the BOM among his Muslims friends and acquaintances. And they accept it because interestingly, one thing that Mohammed taught his people is something Mormons also believe--that God has spoken to all his people and that everyone has been given a portion of the truth. This friend of ours does wonders for the Church, and yes, he's not even a very good Muslim in some ways since he drinks. But I believe that he is one who will not become a member the Church in this life. His work, I believe, is best done as a non-member.

I would have sent this to you in private but the system does not allow me to do so. So I'll leave it here for a while in hopes you'll have a chance to read it and then I'll delete it.

Aleikham salaam . . .