Where do LDS fit in the Christian world?

[prisonchaplain]

We're all well aware of the flame wars that often erupt from the "Are LDS Christian" type strings. So, lets assume the answer is yes, and ask the followup. Just what kind of Christians are LDS? Are you liberal or conservative? In your explanation, describe what you think the labels mean. BTW, I'll say up front that I do find labels useful, and in my view the chasm between liberal and conservative Christianity is quite substantial.

[Traveler]

We're all well aware of the flame wars that often erupt from the "Are LDS Christian" type strings. So, lets assume the answer is yes, and ask the followup. Just what kind of Christians are LDS? Are you liberal or conservative? In your explanation, describe what you think the labels mean. BTW, I'll say up front that I do find labels useful, and in my view the chasm between liberal and conservative Christianity is quite substantial.

For those interested in labels - LDS are most likely to be considered somewhat conservative.

The Traveler

[Moksha]

Chaplain, I don't think belief in the literal or allegorical aspects of religion matters as much in our relationship to Jesus as how we act towards others. I have seen many acts of kindness and mercy shown by members of the LDS Church. It is on this level that I see a unity in Christ above and beyond any labels. We may have beliefs of similarity or disimilarity to others, but as to the path of Jesus we have our hearts and deeds to speak for us.

[prisonchaplain]

Chaplain, I don't think belief in the literal or allegorical aspects of religion matters as much in our relationship to Jesus as how we act towards others. I have seen many acts of kindness and mercy shown by members of the LDS Church. It is on this level that I see a unity in Christ above and beyond any labels. We may have beliefs of similarity or disimilarity to others, but as to the path of Jesus we have our hearts and deeds to speak for us.

I hear this from LDS with some frequency. IMHO it is a "liberal" approach. Put another way, I hear that it's more important what you do than what you believe. I'd also suggest that the approach to scripture can be somewhat liberal.

On the other hand, Traveler is right in many ways. I'm hoping others will flesh these out a little more. My observations are that it will be difficult to pigeon hole your faith--"conservative" may be the easy answer, but I'm not sure it's all that accurate.

[mikbone]

Put another way, I hear that it's more important what you do than what you believe.

Actually, it's more important that you do the right thing for the right reason.

Faith without works is dead.

But good deeds without proper intent is pathologic.

[Hemidakota]

We're all well aware of the flame wars that often erupt from the "Are LDS Christian" type strings. So, lets assume the answer is yes, and ask the followup. Just what kind of Christians are LDS? Are you liberal or conservative? In your explanation, describe what you think the labels mean. BTW, I'll say up front that I do find labels useful, and in my view the chasm between liberal and conservative Christianity is quite substantial.

We do not stand in the world or considered being part of the world per say. We are the Lord servants, whether the world provides a label and call it liberalism, socialism, cultism, or conservatism. It doesn’t matter what label that Babylon gives the church. It only matters what the Lord thinks of His own flock should be our concern.

What is a Christian? An individual who surrenders his or her will unto the Lord and serves GOD wholeheartedly. Not just Sunday only but every waking moment in their lives. Their lives are dedicated to build the kingdom unto Savior that the Savior may glorified GOD. Not to build kingdoms or glory unto themselves. They are filled with gratitude and give praises unto the FATHER, through HIS beloved Son. They are filled with a heavenly strain that will shake presence of evil. They are not afraid of the world or its babblings.

When reborn with the Spirit of the Lord, a greater change will overcome the natural self and the individual begins to walk in the same latchet shoes that the Lord will provide. They reside in GOD’s presence and be instructed by the hand the Savior. They are the Lord’s servants.

[WmLee]

PC ~ Great question. If anyone is to be a “Christian” is it safe to assume they have taken on the name of Christ, to be “His” and strive to be more like Him? Than anyone from any sect could be a Christian.

Now, the libral and conservative, the labels we place on each other would be a reflection of our interpretation or our application of His teachings.

In the Restored Church Jospeh Smith taught that so many religions have changed and manipulated the gospel that non were true. He never said they were all wrong, (teachings were completely incorrect) just not true. How we, as Latter-day Saints now apply the standards we are instructed to live by I believe gives us the lable of liberal or conservative aong ourselves.

Joseph Smith made a statement something to the effect of “teach them the principles and let them govern themselves” (remember I have an old brain so I hope I’m close).

We have been given principles or guidelines to follow and we apply these as we interpret them. With the Word of Wisdom if I am correct the exact phrase is “hot drink” which has become coffee which has been narrowed down to caffine, (though they left hot chocolate out which is hot and often has caffine). Some feel ANY sort of caffine while others believe chocolate is exempt while some add soda and some decaf coffee.

I find the same when “paying an honest tithe”. Some pay based on the total earning, some on the total net while a few will place the money into an interest earning account, pay the “tithe” and keep the interest accumulated.

I think a conservative LDS member would use what’s needed, prepare for tomorrow and always be ready to help, to give where needed. A liberal LDS member would keep as much, use as much because of “entitlement” and then organize and start programs that would have minimal impact on their “stuff” while everyone else helps the needy.

[prisonchaplain]

We do not stand in the world or considered being part of the world per say. We are the Lord servants, whether the world provides a label and call it liberalism, socialism, cultism, or conservatism. It doesn’t matter what label that Babylon gives the church. It only matters what the Lord thinks of His own flock should be our concern.

Amen to all of that. However, what I am hoping for is that the Lord's servants will ID themselves. In this era Babylon would lable any group that supports prop. 8 as conservative, so you do well to reject their assessments. What is your own?

What is a Christian? An individual who surrenders his or her will unto the Lord and serves GOD wholeheartedly. Not just Sunday only but every waking moment in their lives. Their lives are dedicated to build the kingdom unto Savior that the Savior may glorified GOD. Not to build kingdoms or glory unto themselves. They are filled with gratitude and give praises unto the FATHER, through HIS beloved Son. They are filled with a heavenly strain that will shake presence of evil. They are not afraid of the world or its babblings.

When reborn with the Spirit of the Lord, a greater change will overcome the natural self and the individual begins to walk in the same latchet shoes that the Lord will provide. They reside in GOD’s presence and be instructed by the hand the Savior. They are the Lord’s servants.

A label I'd throw out for the above is Holiness. And yes, most consider that branch of Christianity conservative--not politically, but morally.

[Hemidakota]

Amen to all of that. However, what I am hoping for is that the Lord's servants will ID themselves. In this era Babylon would lable any group that supports prop. 8 as conservative, so you do well to reject their assessments. What is your own?

They will label anything that is against their agenda. It will only grow worst from the mid 90s until we reach the state of apathy for this life. I can attest, these are they, who should have been thrown out of heaven prior to this earth. But through the tender mercies of the Lord, your efforts, and others who followed the Savior, help them back from the dominion of Lucifer grip. This is why I do not bother to heed them What remarks did you hear from this group from such laborious act in for those who stand up in the face of great opposition, including those who claimed to be on the Lord side in preserving the true order of ‘family’ and what constitutes a ‘divine marriage’ pattern? Just about everything that could be said. We will not only called far-right conservativism to four-to-five letter words that would be ‘bleep’ out.

This is why PC, I no longer use the different denominations or non-denominations of this world anymore. I change it since that day as using Nephi own vision, spoken in 2nd book of Nephi, where he places people into two global encampment; GOD and Babylon. Even members of church can fall in the encampment of Babylon. Are they true disciples of Christ? We shall see in the end…

A label I'd throw out for the above is Holiness. And yes, most consider that branch of Christianity conservative--not politically, but morally.

Yes! They will label the Christian movement as conservative but that is label of the world. Something that have always bothered me, when you personally witnessed claimed conservative Christians who violate even a simple law of the land to murdering another person. Are they true Disciples of Christ? No. Even I need a daily vigilance in my relentless pursuit [self-analysis] ensuring my own actions are not out of harmony with GOD. So, it is true, we are political when it becomes necessary to preserve our freedom and standing up for both GOD and our founding fathers? Yes!!!

Edited May 25, 2010 by Hemidakota

[Jenamarie]

I think a conservative LDS member would use what’s needed, prepare for tomorrow and always be ready to help, to give where needed. A liberal LDS member would keep as much, use as much because of “entitlement” and then organize and start programs that would have minimal impact on their “stuff” while everyone else helps the needy.

I find this an unfair characterization of liberal LDS members. I consider myself a liberal, and my DH and I pay a full and honest tithe on our GROSS income each month, plus, when my DH was in school, we paid tithing on his GI Bill money, as well as his student loans, giving the money to the Perpetual Education Fund. We also started doubling our Fast Offerings when many in our ward were laid off (we live in a mill town).

We prepare to meet our own needs (via personal savings, food storage, 72-hour kits, etc.) AND share our abundance with the Church because we know it all comes from the Lord, and not everyone has been blessed to be in as comfortable position as we are (not saying we "deserve" or "earned" our comfortable position from our own merits. It is through the Grace of God that we have been blessed, and we try to be good stewards of those blessings).

Man-made labels of "conservative" and "liberal" serve only to divide us and keep us from being a Zion people. There are selfish, "entitled" liberals AND selfish, "entitled" conservatives inside and outside of the church. What matters most is where our hearts lie, and where we stand in our Walk with Christ.

[prisonchaplain]

Labels can clarify and define, or they can divide. In the past 30-years it seems they've done more of the latter. And yet, if we want people to understand us, we need some adjectives. Perhaps if I throw out some of my own, it will help. An encyclopedia defined my church as: Pentecostal, Evangelical, Fundamentalist, and Missionary. While some of those could have negative connotations, I find all of the words useful. From them I can offer explanations that would give people an efficient understanding of my faith.

So, if "conservative" and "liberal" are too political and controversial, perhaps some have other labels they could suggest, that might prove informative?

[Hemidakota]

Neutral?

[WmLee]

I find this an unfair characterization of liberal LDS members.

Man-made labels of "conservative" and "liberal" serve only to divide us and keep us from being a Zion people. There are selfish, "entitled" liberals AND selfish, "entitled" conservatives inside and outside of the church. What matters most is where our hearts lie, and where we stand in our Walk with Christ.

The label isn't set to divide but to define who we are. I consider “libera” those people who want to “spread the wealth” and take away from others while sharing little from their catch. When I write of “conservative” I consider a far right while moving far left when writing of “liberal”. There is a lot of room in between and we all land someplace in there.

[prisonchaplain]

In the realm of Christian faith here are some definitions I would offer (cause, imho, the conservative/liberal discussion seems stuck in politics):

Conservative: biblical literalist (mostly), believer in miracles, in the literal second-coming, practicing rigorous moral standards (e.g. the WoW), focussing more on one's distinctives than on commonalities with others, and of course, showing hesitance to change.

Liberal: Taking scriptures as loose moral guides and parables, rather than literal accounts of supernatural miracles, a general drive to get along with others and focus on similarities, an eagerness to learn and adopt new ways.

Pretty well accepted examples:

Conservatives: Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God, most Evangelicals, all Fundamentalists, Wisconsin and Missouri Synod Lutherans.

Liberals: United Church of Christ, Lutheran Church of America, Episcopaleans. urban Methodists and Presbyterians--and of course the Metropolitan Community Church.

IMHO, LDS are conservative in more ways than liberal (moral code, music and education), but are somewhat liberal in how scripture is interpreted and in the openness and respect offered to other faiths.

Hope this helps ...

[carlimac]

I know many who call themselves Christian who would say liberal=bad and conservative=good. So to use those labels will most likely make some people defensive or at least confused - those who think of themselves good through and through but having some qualities you've described in the liberal category.

Aren't you fudging a little on the Bilical literalist when you put "mostly" in parenthesis? Are there some stories or events in the Bible that conservative Christians DON'T take literally? I always thought they took everything completely the way they read it in the bible.

Anyway, I don't think your definitions of conservative or liberal labels are going to serve anyone but you. It seems to be a question that is attempting to trap or make someone look foolish or inconsistent.

LDS are what they are, niether one or the other in my mind. But the doctrines and admonitions are good. If good = conservative in your mind, then so be it. ;-)

[Elgama]

I'm conservative with my own beliefs but liberal with other peoples. Basically I see myself as a follower of Christ end of.

[Justice]

IMHO, LDS are conservative in more ways than liberal (moral code, music and education), but are somewhat liberal in how scripture is interpreted and in the openness and respect offered to other faiths.

Hope this helps ...

Only liberal if that interpretation goes against your own, otherwise, it's conservative. :)

[anim82r]

We do not stand in the world or considered being part of the world per say. We are the Lord servants, whether the world provides a label and call it liberalism, socialism, cultism, or conservatism. It doesn’t matter what label that Babylon gives the church. It only matters what the Lord thinks of His own flock should be our concern.

What is a Christian? An individual who surrenders his or her will unto the Lord and serves GOD wholeheartedly. Not just Sunday only but every waking moment in their lives. Their lives are dedicated to build the kingdom unto Savior that the Savior may glorified GOD. Not to build kingdoms or glory unto themselves. They are filled with gratitude and give praises unto the FATHER, through HIS beloved Son. They are filled with a heavenly strain that will shake presence of evil. They are not afraid of the world or its babblings.

When reborn with the Spirit of the Lord, a greater change will overcome the natural self and the individual begins to walk in the same latchet shoes that the Lord will provide. They reside in GOD’s presence and be instructed by the hand the Savior. They are the Lord’s servants.

Hem, this is an amazing answer, Why do you always get to say it first before I do?

Correct me if I'm wrong but was it Elder M. Russel Ballard who said that being a Christian is not about belonging to a certain Christian sect but rather anyone who possess Christ-like attributes? And I think it was explained further that being Christian is following the light of Christ within one's self. That Latter-Day Saints define this light for others as Conscience? So far I did not find any definition of the word conscience associated with evil doings. That since we Latter-Day Saints believe that everyone born into this world have with them the light of Christ (Conscience), anyone who acts according to its dictates is a Christian, whether he be a Buddhist, a Shaman, Methodist, Lutheran, or Latter-Day Saint.

Someone I talked to once expressed, "These people (reffering to passers-by) consider themselves Christians. They go to Church Every Sunday or whichever day they considered Sabbath. They give a few offering or contributions to their respective Christian religion. But out here their unmindful, selfish, uncaring, and uncharitable. They argue, they fight they take advantage of other people's weaknesses, they take things that don't belong to them, etc. Pastors fights pastors, ministers fight ministers. Preachers preach against other preachers. If Christians have grown into such as these people are then God is not a Christian. Because I don't think God possess such attributes. I Believe He is a God of Love, full of charity, slow to anger and quick to help. He is patient, kind and understanding. He possesses all the virtues found in the discourse of Paul about Charity, and perhaps even more."

So I think the question really is not whether we're conservative or liberal. In fact I've never encountered that issue in any of our Sunday school lessons or Priesthood and Relief Society lessons. I am only aware that in each and every lesson we had in the Church during Sundays, Family Home Evenings, Home Teachings and Visiting Teachings, we've only focused on developing Christ-like attributes and applying them in our lives and sharing them to others. That, I strongly believe, is being Christian.

Prison Chaplain, there are no labels. I don't think we can and should label Heavenly Father and His teachings. His is Sacred and Divine. Labeling it is putting Him and His teachings down to earthly state. I said that because we LDS believe that the doctrine and teachings we have came directly from Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ via revelation. Having said that, should it not be given a thought that since Latter-Day Saint Prophets receive instructions from God on a regular basis the more we ought to be called Christians so long as we perform from the heart what we are instructed with?:)

[prisonchaplain]

Aren't you fudging a little on the Bilical literalist when you put "mostly" in parenthesis? Are there some stories or events in the Bible that conservative Christians DON'T take literally? I always thought they took everything completely the way they read it in the bible.

Well, God doesn't have wings, the world is not flat (with corners), and the earth might be 10s of thousands of years old, or even much more. The seven days of creation may have been periods, not literal, 24-hour days. We don't believe the body and blood of Christ at the Last Supper were literal, and when Jesus said to Peter "upon this rock I build my church," we believe it was upon Peter's confession of faith that Jesus is the Christ, that the church was built, not upon Peter himself. And, of course, we believe we are made in the moral and emotional image of God, but not the physical image. So, I fudge with the word "mostly," because we default to a literal interpretation, but do not totally reject see allegory and even hyperbole in the writings.

Anyway, I don't think your definitions of conservative or liberal labels are going to serve anyone but you. It seems to be a question that is attempting to trap or make someone look foolish or inconsistent.

I could understand that assessment if I were here as a representative of some Anti-LDS group, or if I had a history here of antagonistic postings. But, I'm not and I don't, so not sure why anyone would smell a trap.

LDS are what they are, niether one or the other in my mind. But the doctrines and admonitions are good. If good = conservative in your mind, then so be it. ;-)

IMHO, LDS cannot be pidgeon-holed as liberal or conservative. I've already said that. My intention is to vision-cast a bit. So much energy goes in to the "We ARE Christians!" discussions, that it seemed forward-thinking to ask, "OK...if so, what kind?"

[prisonchaplain]

Only liberal if that interpretation goes against your own, otherwise, it's conservative. :)

You may be right. Perhaps I'm jaded by all the strings in which some posters seek to moderate the Bible's appeal, probably in an attempt to raise the value of the BoM. Translations are questioned, alleged inconsistencies are highlighted, etc. To us who reckon the Bible to be the only scripture we've got, such postings sound very much like the kind we hear from liberal denominations and scholars.

[carlimac]

"IMHO, LDS cannot be pidgeon-holed as liberal or conservative. I've already said that. My intention is to vision-cast a bit. So much energy goes in to the "We ARE Christians!" discussions, that it seemed forward-thinking to ask, "OK...if so, what kind?"

We believe in Christ, we follow His teachings, we try to emmulate His compassion and care for humankind, we believe in His atonement and His ability to make up for our weaknesses. What other kind of Christian can or should there be anyway? Diligent or lazy? True to beliefs or hypocrite? Somehow "liberal" or "conservative" are adjectives that just don't seem to jive with Christianity anyway. They are terms used for politics - right or left, or quantitative - as in how much mustard you put in your potato salad. For me, they don't work with being Christian. Either you are or you are not.

[john doe]

I haven't read the thread, but my answer is that since we believe Christ is our head and He communicates with our Prophets, that we are the working towards being the kinds of Christians that He would want us to be. Liberal and Conservative Christians are labels that He would reject, He is who He is, and we should be working to being the kinds of disciples He would want us to be.

[carlimac]

I could understand that assessment if I were here as a representative of some Anti-LDS group, or if I had a history here of antagonistic postings. But, I'm not and I don't, so not sure why anyone would smell a trap

Sorry. I haven't been around long enough to know you. I have to admit to getting jumpy and defensive about this topic. Or at the very least, confounded by the mere question. I would bet that most LDS members take a much more simplistic approach to the term "Christian" than other Christians do. We believe in Jesus Christ as our savior so we are Christians and that's about it. If we believed in Buddha, we'd be Buddhists. If we believed Scooby Doo were our savior and founder of our church, we'd be Scooby Dooians.

Maybe it's just me that's simple minded. But Being A Christian doesn't have to be all that complicated.

[Moksha]

What matters most is where our hearts lie, and where we stand in our Walk with Christ.

Well said.

[prisonchaplain]

Christ would not take sides in theological debates or discussions? Maybe he would. To be over-simple, the Pharisees of his day were more conservative. They believed in angels and evils and the afterlife. The supposedly more sophisticated Sadduccees did not believe in them. They saw Judaism as more of a moral civilizing force. Jesus definitely took sides with the Pharisees on those issues.

Within the LDS faith, you have some who will refuse any caffeine or soda, including chocolate. Others are apparently okay with decaf coffee, herbal teas, etc. Some, who have access, go to Temple multiple times a week. Others, only rarely. And yet, when it comes to simple devotion to God and to their Ward, both might be rigorously faithful. Would it be unfair to label these two in some way? Must label always connot division and judgment?