Temple Worthy?

[moocow]

I might be a little cynical... but how is it possible that ALL of my friends were temple worthy when they got married, except the ones who went off the deep end anyway? I know I'm not the only one who struggles with the Law of Chastity, so do people just get married in the temple to save face? Sorry, that sounds very negative, but it's kind of weird to me how few people I know in my age bracket (high marriage rate) end up getting married civilly. I feel like people are pressured into pretending to be worthy for the temple or something when I know they're not. I know it's none of my business, but it's just annoying.

[FunkyTown]

I might be a little cynical... but how is it possible that ALL of my friends were temple worthy when they got married, except the ones who went off the deep end anyway? I know I'm not the only one who struggles with the Law of Chastity, so do people just get married in the temple to save face? Sorry, that sounds very negative, but it's kind of weird to me how few people I know in my age bracket (high marriage rate) end up getting married civilly. I feel like people are pressured into pretending to be worthy for the temple or something when I know they're not. I know it's none of my business, but it's just annoying.

I'm getting married in the temple this Saturday and I'm temple worthy. And we've been dating for over two years. I have no agenda in telling you this and gain no face for doing so. Obviously, my experience is as anecdotal as yours.

Have you considered that maybe if you know for certain that someone has broken the law of chastity, that they repented of it and are worthy? Sometimes, we project our own weaknesses on to others. Chastity's a doozy of one, and perhaps some do pretend, but it's also possible it's far less than you think

[prophetofdoom]

Their worthiness is between them and the Lord. When someone goes to their Bishop and Stake President to obtain a temple recommend... they are declaring themselves worthy to enter the Lord's house. People can and do lie at times... sometimes the BP or SP catch them in their lies... sometimes not. BUT ultimately we declare ourselves worthy to enter the temple...

For example, are you a full tithe payer? Only you can answer that. The BP and SP are not going to go through your payroll stubs to determine if you are a full tithe payer.

[rameumptom]

Sounds like you need to focus on your own worthiness more, and less on others. You do not know whether they have talked with their bishop, been through repentance process, etc. If they have, then they are worthy of the temple. If they have not, then they will be responsible to God.

As it is, if you know of members who are not worthy to partake of the Sacrament, you should bring it up to the bishop, so he can handle the situation. Then, you leave it in his hands. This is the Lord's matter, not ours, to determine worthiness.

Oh, and my wife and I were worthy to marry in the temple.

[miztrniceguy]

Funky, congrats! which temple?

[Vort]

I might be a little cynical... but how is it possible that ALL of my friends were temple worthy when they got married, except the ones who went off the deep end anyway? I know I'm not the only one who struggles with the Law of Chastity, so do people just get married in the temple to save face? Sorry, that sounds very negative, but it's kind of weird to me how few people I know in my age bracket (high marriage rate) end up getting married civilly. I feel like people are pressured into pretending to be worthy for the temple or something when I know they're not. I know it's none of my business, but it's just annoying.

You might be cynical, yes. On the other hand, I am sure there are many who marry in the temple unworthily. Does "many" mean 5% or 50%? I don't know. I suspect it's toward the smaller end, and perhaps less than 5%, but I could not say. My wife and I were virgins and worthy of the temple at our marriage. I have witnessed the marriages of many siblings and cousins, and I assume all were worthy of that blessing; in many cases, I was quite close to that person and had good reason to believe he or she was worthy.

So I acknowledge the possibility of what you say, that perhaps many marry in the temple unchastely. But I do believe it's a minority. People born and raised in the Church have learned since childhood to value chastity, so it's to be expected that most of them will live by those values.

[Jennarator]

I don't see it as possible that the percentage is very big. I was worthy for both my marriges. (Only the last one we had to marry civily because we are still waiting for the clearences to go thru.)

I also think those that lie will have their own consequences to deal with, and I'm not going to worry about that.

[Backroads]

I think you may be projecting your own situation onto everyone else, moocow.

[Spartan117]

I know a couple that slept together the night before their sealing and went through with it anyway. A year later they confessed to their bishop. I know a bishop who told me that he signed off on the recommend for this young couple, the SP signed off, and in the sealing room he felt prompted so strongly that the couple was not worthy that after the sealing he met with the sealer and temple president to tell them what he felt and what he thought.

The couple in the first instance were disfellowshipped. Nothing happened to the second couple. The temple president told the bishop that unless the sealing was sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, it's meaningless. And sometimes that happens. Everyone is given the chance to confess before walking into the sealing room. He said that all sins will eventually be repented of. The Millennium will serve lots of purposes.

[HiJolly]

I know a couple that slept together the night before their sealing and went through with it anyway. A year later they confessed to their bishop. I know a bishop who told me that he signed off on the recommend for this young couple, the SP signed off, and in the sealing room he felt prompted so strongly that the couple was not worthy that after the sealing he met with the sealer and temple president to tell them what he felt and what he thought.

The couple in the first instance were disfellowshipped. Nothing happened to the second couple. The temple president told the bishop that unless the sealing was sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, it's meaningless. And sometimes that happens. Everyone is given the chance to confess before walking into the sealing room. He said that all sins will eventually be repented of. The Millennium will serve lots of purposes.

A few years ago I was sitting in the endowment room at the very beginning of a session, and had a powerful 'feeling' that a man sitting in front of me "shouldn't be there". It was so strong, I wondered what to do. I *almost* leaned forward, tapped him on the shoulder, and asked him if he was really sure he wanted to be there. But I resisted. I had no stewardship whatsoever, and I knew that if Heavenly Father/the Holy Ghost didn't want that man there, he could inform those in charge and thus get it taken care of.

That's not the first time I've had a revelation where I had no stewardship. It's dang uncomfortable!

HiJolly

[dahlia]

So I acknowledge the possibility of what you say, that perhaps many marry in the temple unchastely.

I'm confused. If a couple was dating and broke the laws of chastity, but repented with the bishop and all of that (I'll assume the bishop would want some time to pass, etc.) couldn't they get a recommend and get married in the temple? Or are you saying that people get temple marriages who have not been chaste and lie about it to get their recommend?

I guess what I'm thinking is that many young people give in to the urges of the flesh. It doesn't mean they don't love each other or that they are bad people. I'd rather see them be able to repent and get a temple marriage, than to lose them to that, and maybe to the church.

And just to make sure - getting 'married in the temple' is the same thing as getting sealed, right? Or are there 2 different ceremonies? Can one be married in the temple but not sealed to one's spouse?

[Guest FixingTheWrongs]

And just to make sure - getting 'married in the temple' is the same thing as getting sealed, right? Or are there 2 different ceremonies? Can one be married in the temple but not sealed to one's spouse?

I believe they only do sealings in the temple. I've never heard of being able to be married in the temple for anything but time and all eternity.

[dahlia]

So what happens to widows/widowers who want to be married in the temple and they are already sealed to their first spouses? Do they have to get married in the chapel/civilly and can't have another temple marriage?

[Vort]

I'm confused. If a couple was dating and broke the laws of chastity, but repented with the bishop and all of that (I'll assume the bishop would want some time to pass, etc.) couldn't they get a recommend and get married in the temple? Or are you saying that people get temple marriages who have not been chaste and lie about it to get their recommend?

Yes, I believe this is the implication, that they may be going through the temple unworthily.

I guess what I'm thinking is that many young people give in to the urges of the flesh. It doesn't mean they don't love each other or that they are bad people. I'd rather see them be able to repent and get a temple marriage, than to lose them to that, and maybe to the church.

Certainly repentence is and should be always an option, but fornicators should never be in the temple. If they are, they are making covenants unworthily, and God will not be mocked. They would be much, much better off marrying civilly and making themselves worthy for the temple than to go through while guilty of fornication.

And just to make sure - getting 'married in the temple' is the same thing as getting sealed, right? Or are there 2 different ceremonies? Can one be married in the temple but not sealed to one's spouse?

Technically, it is possible to marry in the temple for time only. This is occasionally done. But when people say "temple marriage", 999.9 times out of 1000 they mean "temple sealing to a spouse".

[Vort]

So what happens to widows/widowers who want to be married in the temple and they are already sealed to their first spouses? Do they have to get married in the chapel/civilly and can't have another temple marriage?

Men may be sealed to any number of women, but only to one living woman at a time. Women may be sealed to only one man while alive; after they are dead, they may be sealed to any number of men, the assumption being that they (the women) will somehow select which man will be their spouse in the eternities.

[MorningStar]

I do know some people are too embarrassed to postpone their wedding, so they choose to go through unworthily, but I don't think that's the majority. I also know someone who did the right thing and postponed their sealing after the invitations had already gone out.

[Backroads]

Is anyone interested in polling how many/few did get sealed unworthily? I doubt you'll get an accurate answer.

[john doe]

I'm getting married in the temple this Saturday

Congratulations!!!! Hope you have a great day.

[Jennarator]

Is anyone interested in polling how many/few did get sealed unworthily? I doubt you'll get an accurate answer.

I am, however I doubt it will be very accuate, because even though it might be annonimouse (I know I butchered that spelling) people might not admit they were not worthy.....

[applepansy]

Congrats Funky!!!

[Backroads]

I am, however I doubt it will be very accuate, because even though it might be annonimouse (I know I butchered that spelling) people might not admit they were not worthy.....

There is also the difficulty of the grey area... people may not even be sure if they were worthy/unworthy...

[prophetofdoom]

I know a couple that slept together the night before their sealing and went through with it anyway. A year later they confessed to their bishop. I know a bishop who told me that he signed off on the recommend for this young couple, the SP signed off, and in the sealing room he felt prompted so strongly that the couple was not worthy that after the sealing he met with the sealer and temple president to tell them what he felt and what he thought.

The couple in the first instance were disfellowshipped. Nothing happened to the second couple. The temple president told the bishop that unless the sealing was sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, it's meaningless. And sometimes that happens. Everyone is given the chance to confess before walking into the sealing room. He said that all sins will eventually be repented of. The Millennium will serve lots of purposes.

I don't know if I agree with this. There are many instances when Priesthood Ordinances are performed by someone who is later discovered to be unworthy. They don't redo the ordinance... so why would the sealing not count anymore? If the couple repented, does that mean they are not sealed? It doesn't make sense to me.

[pam]

I believe they only do sealings in the temple. I've never heard of being able to be married in the temple for anything but time and all eternity.

I agree with Vort. Couples can get married in the temple for time only. They are worthy to attend the temple but may still be sealed to other people.

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't know if I agree with this. There are many instances when Priesthood Ordinances are performed by someone who is later discovered to be unworthy. They don't redo the ordinance... so why would the sealing not count anymore? If the couple repented, does that mean they are not sealed? It doesn't make sense to me.

My understanding is that, once repentance has occurred, the Holy Spirit of Promise can ratify the ordinance that was done previously.

[MarginOfError]

I agree with Vort. Couples can get married in the temple for time only. They are worthy to attend the temple but may still be sealed to other people.

Just to have three witnesses, I'll confirm this as well. In fact, when my grandmother remarried, she married in the temple, but was no sealed. So I have both policy knowledge and personal anecdotal experience here. YAY ME!

PS I fear today might be an ego day for me.