Who gets paid?

[Hala401]

So, last night my non LDS roomate expressed surprise that being a paid preacher is called Priest craft, and not done by the LDS. "That is um commendable", she said, expressing her surprise.

Then I mentioned that I did not think that almost any LDS were paid, but did not know. So, I do not even know if this is a permissible subject, but who is paid in the LDS Church? Surely, at some upper level those who work must be paid because they work all day long? Right? Or not?

My roomate, an agnostic, is quite surprised at the change in my life, how nice LDS folk are, and what she has seen of the church.

Hala

[MarginOfError]

So, last night my non LDS roomate expressed surprise that being a paid preacher is called Priest craft, and not done by the LDS. "That is um commendable", she said, expressing her surprise.

Then I mentioned that I did not think that almost any LDS were paid, but did not know. So, I do not even know if this is a permissible subject, but who is paid in the LDS Church? Surely, at some upper level those who work must be paid because they work all day long? Right? Or not?

My roomate, an agnostic, is quite surprised at the change in my life, how nice LDS folk are, and what she has seen of the church.

Hala

If you don't mind my nit picking, I am hesitant to call all paid ministry "priestcraft." For instance, my understanding is that prisonchaplain is a paid minister, but I wouldn't call his work priestcraft. I think it is important to include intent when we talk about priestcraft. prisonchaplain does what he does becuase he believes it is important and that he can make a difference. Someone practicing priestcraft would be, in my opinion, someone feigning faith or exploiting other people's faith in order to turn a profit. That is, priestcraft puts profit before faith.

My understanding is that the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve, and First Quorum of the Seventy receive no compensation for their service to the Church (although they may receive some travel stipends, like a per diem when on the road, but I can't confirm this). Members of the Second Quorum of the Seventy are not financially independent and may receive a small living allowance (I have heard this anecdotally and could be incorrect). Other Seventies are called from their local areas and do not receive compensation other than gas reimbursement when traveling long distances. Gas reimbursement may also be available to stake presidents or other stake leaders when approved.

The Church also employs administrative staff. The people that membership most often interact with are the Facilities Management staff. The FM staff has responsibility over buildings and other properties. They usually maintain buildings in several stakes. The Church also employs secretaries for a number of leaders, programmers, web designers, etc. These are considered administrative employees. Ministerial staff are usually unpaid.

One could argue that Church Educational System employees are ministerial (they teach seminary and institute), but these people are teachers and have no ministerial stewardship over those they teach.

[NeuroTypical]

What MOE said. There isn't really any official statement about who gets paid or gets a living allowance or whatnot. I recorded this tidbit from many years ago on another message board, from a guy named Trencher7:

Some GA's receive a salary to make ends meet. My father, who was just released last conference, did not get any salary. When he was called one of the questions he was asked was if he was self sufficient. He answered in the affirmative. He only was reimbursed for travel and given a church owned car for use while he served. The church also covered monthly rent when he was overseas (unless the home was owned by the church).

[Backroads]

I worked with a teacher who's husband was a guard for President Hinckley. He didn't make too much, but he did have a job worth bragging about.

[estradling75]

Hala401... I believe your understanding of Priest Craft is slightly off..

Please take a moment to read Alma 1 

Particularly verses 3 & 7 which describe how Priest Craft plays out.

The difference is not in if they get paid, the difference is in motivation... Why do they preach?... If they do it to become popular, if they do it to become rich... Then it is Priest Craft.

If they do it out of love of Christ and their fellow man then it is not, no matter how much money they might get paid, because a laborer is worthy of his hire.

Because Priest Craft comes down to motivation it can sometime be very hard to see unless it reaches some extreme cases.

I do know that local leaders (stake level down) are not paid. Beyond that I am not sure who might get some kind of allowance from the Church for their effort in leading.

The Church also runs several business and hires people to do various jobs, those people get paid. That can make things kind of murky figuring out if it is a Church Job versus a Church Calling.

[Hala401]

This is about what I suspected, and of course I approve. She was thinking of certain Mega Church folk who make a gajillion dollars being showboats.

I know one day that my bubbling infatuation with the LDS church could be quenched, and have been warned about that, but you'd have to understand what it was like in the depths I once experienced, so perhaps not, I pray.

Hala

[Vort]

So, last night my non LDS roomate expressed surprise that being a paid preacher is called Priest craft, and not done by the LDS. "That is um commendable", she said, expressing her surprise.

Then I mentioned that I did not think that almost any LDS were paid, but did not know. So, I do not even know if this is a permissible subject, but who is paid in the LDS Church? Surely, at some upper level those who work must be paid because they work all day long? Right? Or not?

My roomate, an agnostic, is quite surprised at the change in my life, how nice LDS folk are, and what she has seen of the church.

Hala

Paid ministry itself is not priestcraft; rather, "priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion." (2 Nephi 26:29)

My understanding is that General Authorities, mission presidents, and others who are called to work at Church business full-time are allowed a living stipend. It's quite modest, and those who don't need it often don't take it, but it is available, and many would consider it as "paid ministry". (Note that regular missionaries, young and old, receive no payment of any sort except airfare to and from their areas of service. The living check the younger missionaries receive for living expenses is from "Church equalization", a fund into which they or their parents pay the monthly amount of around $400.)

[Dravin]

Someone practicing priestcraft would be, in my opinion, someone feigning faith or exploiting other people's faith in order to turn a profit.

I would also add fame as another motivator that falls under priestcraft.

[Hala401]

Thank you all. I am quite unaccustomed to people responding to my ignorance with such kindness. Thank you.

[beefche]

You know, it's a wonder the Lord's work goes on as well as it does. Consider that the day to day stuff is taken care of by bishops and the leaders at the ward level. Every single one of them are human prone to make mistakes, with bias, weaknesses, strengths, etc. They have jobs outside of church. But they spend alot of time (relative to each individual) to do the Lord's work. Remarkable considering all that and more.

[Just_A_Guy]

Back when the Church was more heavily involved in business activities, general authorities often sat on the boards of directors of various church-owned business entities. While they may not have been paid for being an apostle per se, as a member of the board of directors that individual may have received a decent living for their service to the entity itself. The Church has scaled back its business involvement over the past few decades, but as it doesn't formally publish its financial reports it's hard to know whether this still continues and, if so, to what extent.

Also, it's worth noting that while bishops and stake presidents are not paid now, this was not the case in pioneer Utah. Back then bishops and stake presidents might easily serve for a couple of decades, and it was more of a full-time job than it is nowadays.

I like the way the Church runs its ministry nowadays; but as Mormons it's important not to get too self-righteous about our current lack of a paid clergy at the congregational level. A paid clergy has a lot of pitfalls, but it isn't inherently wrong.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[rameumptom]

Priest craft is not that a preacher gets paid.

In Alma 1 and 35 and Helaman 2, we learn that Priestcraft is: preachers or leaders that seek to get gain. Their main focus is not in moving the Lord and his work forward, but to enrich themselves, saying flattering things to their listeners so they gain even more riches. They teach selfishness, pride, and that a person can do anything and God will still love them and save them. Many will set themselves up as a form of savior (economic, emotional, political, intellectual and/or religious).

Your average preacher is not involved in priestcraft. Most of them are sincere in serving God.

[Blackmarch]

So, last night my non LDS roomate expressed surprise that being a paid preacher is called Priest craft, and not done by the LDS. "That is um commendable", she said, expressing her surprise.

Then I mentioned that I did not think that almost any LDS were paid, but did not know. So, I do not even know if this is a permissible subject, but who is paid in the LDS Church? Surely, at some upper level those who work must be paid because they work all day long? Right? Or not?

My roomate, an agnostic, is quite surprised at the change in my life, how nice LDS folk are, and what she has seen of the church.

Hala

priestcraft is the using of religion to get money or get rich.

Edit: what ram said.

while the church will reimburse certain things done on its behalf such as getting food for an activity or for paying for a church business trip, otherwise no it doesn't pay the ministry.

If memory serves me right, when apostles become apostles they essentially give everything of theirs to the church or gives it up... so everything they do or use could be construed as the church responsibilty.

[Dixielee]

I know one day that my bubbling infatuation with the LDS church could be quenched, and have been warned about that, but you'd have to understand what it was like in the depths I once experienced, so perhaps not, I pray.

Hala

This is my first post here, although I have been lurking awhile. I was taken by your comment. I am also a convert to the church, 21 years ago, and I still feel like a puppy! I am so enthusiastic about the gospel, the church in general and all of my callings. Many times I think I need to reign in my enthusiasm! I am the music director in my ward and have to be careful not to jump and shout with some of the hymns! I guess my Baptist roots are showing.

I DO understand where you are coming from and I also pray that you never forget that "new car" feel!

[HEthePrimate]

I get paid for doing custodial work for the Church. Most people don't think of that as a ministerial job, but if 'cleanliness is next to godliness,' hey, I'll consider it sacred work! And believe me, if I didn't perform the Sacred Rite of Cleaning the Toilets and Exorcising the Bacteria Demons on a regular basis, people would most definitely notice!

[Traveler]

So, last night my non LDS roomate expressed surprise that being a paid preacher is called Priest craft, and not done by the LDS. "That is um commendable", she said, expressing her surprise.

Then I mentioned that I did not think that almost any LDS were paid, but did not know. So, I do not even know if this is a permissible subject, but who is paid in the LDS Church? Surely, at some upper level those who work must be paid because they work all day long? Right? Or not?

My roomate, an agnostic, is quite surprised at the change in my life, how nice LDS folk are, and what she has seen of the church.

Hala

Everyone in the church is paid - in fact overpaid. However, we also need to understand that G-d pays in eternal currency and not with that which has no value beyond this life.

The Traveler

[Blackmarch]

Everyone in the church is paid - in fact overpaid. However, we also need to understand that G-d pays in eternal currency and not with that which has no value beyond this life.

The Traveler

touche

[Zeno_X]

Regarding the OP, I thought the Apostles got allowances from non-tithing church business revenue or something?

[beefche]

Regarding the OP, I thought the Apostles got allowances from non-tithing church business revenue or something?

I've not heard that. Do you have a source for that?

[Zeno_X]

I think I just heard it in a religion class a couple months ago at BYU. Goes to show how (a) bad my memory is, or (b) how much we can apply [Citation Needed] (Wikipedia joke) to our teachers (and ourselves).