Facebook & Politics - VENTING!

[Windseeker]

I'm glad I'm not married to Vort, one because I'm a guy, the other because I said "we just need to agree to disagree" to my spouse last night.

Sometimes you just can't agree and at some point you just need to move on.

[Vort]

So all discussion is about changing the mind of the other person and if the mind cannot be changed then it was a meaningless discussion? I don't buy that.

That's also not what I wrote or implied.

To agree to disagree is to say "I now understand your point of view, I don't agree with it, but I respect that you don't agree with my point of view. But it was a good discussion because I believe we both learned something about the issue or each other."

You are seriously saying that, in the majority of cases where the phrase is used, it means, "What a lovely little exchange of opinions we have had!"?

I do not remember ever having used the phrase myself, but I have had it used on me many times, and in almost every case, it seems to have meant what I said it meant.

[Windseeker]

I'm pretty dang opinionanted when it comes to politics but I just don't post or "like" anything political on facebook.

If one of my friends insist on posting allot of political stuff rather then unfriend them, I just stop allowing their stuff to pull up on my facebook feed.

[slamjet]

That's also not what I wrote or implied.

It is how I read it.

You are seriously saying that, in the majority of cases where the phrase is used, it means, "What a lovely little exchange of opinions we have had!"?

Yes, at least on my part, can't say for others. Because to go further than to "agree to disagree" is to "disagree with disagreeing" and out come the fangs and claws.

I do not remember ever having used the phrase myself, but I have had it used on me many times, and in almost every case, it seems to have meant what I said it meant.

Or that's how you took it to mean. I know when I say that it means something quite different than how you take it.

[Windseeker]

disagree to disagree...lol!

[Wingnut]

disagree to disagree...lol!

= agree to agree?

[Vort]

It is how I read it.

Whose fault is that?

Yes, at least on my part, can't say for others. Because to go further than to "agree to disagree" is to "disagree with disagreeing" and out come the fangs and claws.

Or that's how you took it to mean. I know when I say that it means something quite different than how you take it.

Then why discuss opinions at all? Whenever a contrary opinion is expressed, why not just automatically say, "Let's agree to disagree"?

If someone says "Mormons have horns, worship Satan, and sacrifice their daughters to Molech" and you respond, "Uh, I'm a Mormon, and all those things are false", and they say, "You liar! They are all true!", do you just say, "Well, hey, friend, let's just agree to disagree"?

[skippy740]

What is the end goal/objective?

Is it to have someone change their mind right in front of you? No.

It's to have a meaningful dialogue so you BOTH can try to consider points of view that you may not have thought of before.

You may not "win the argument", but you can expound on things in a respectful manner.

But when people get "all worked up in a huff" is when friendships are damaged and no meaningful purpose was achieved.

[Backroads]

If someone says "Mormons have horns, worship Satan, and sacrifice their daughters to Molech" and you respond, "Uh, I'm a Mormon, and all those things are false", and they say, "You liar! They are all true!", do you just say, "Well, hey, friend, let's just agree to disagree"?

That's when you might each have to pull in evidence to back up your claim. Which I believe can be done in a respectful manner.

I get a testimonials of fellow Mormons who never grew horns and were sick the day of the Molech sacrifices.

My friend gets vague reports off internet sites that the site administraror stated as something specific.

Which probably will lead to "agree to disagree", but at least info was exchanged.

[slamjet]

Whose fault is that?

Depends.

Then why discuss opinions at all? Whenever a contrary opinion is expressed, why not just automatically say, "Let's agree to disagree"?

If someone says "Mormons have horns, worship Satan, and sacrifice their daughters to Molech" and you respond, "Uh, I'm a Mormon, and all those things are false", and they say, "You liar! They are all true!", do you just say, "Well, hey, friend, let's just agree to disagree"?

I'm the first person to say that I really don't give a flying leap what another person thinks. But that has pushed a lot of people away and labeled me as being mean, uncaring and not worth anyone's time. So I've had to learn to accept and actually care a little as to what they're thinking. It's called empathy and it's not very easy for me, but I am getting better at it. So when I speak to a person with a different point of view, I'm not going to change his mind, they're not going to change mine, but as a back and forth, I can learn what they're like and how they think and they can learn the same about me. It's called giving the other person due consideration, good decorum, building a re-pour and possibly a friendship.

To throw "agree to disagree" into the pile of useless, belittling cliches is to say that one does not give a flip about anyone else because It's their way or no way. That cannot be good decorum and quite frankly, to me it's the mark of hubris to which I can say, been there, done that, and hasn't gotten me anywhere good.

So if someone does not want to move from the idea that all Mormons have horns, then I'll agree to disagree because for one, this is a battle not worth fighting and for two, opinions and minds are not changes with one conversation.

[Just_A_Guy]

I'm glad I'm not married to Vort, one because I'm a guy, the other because I said "we just need to agree to disagree" to my spouse last night.

But Vort's overall point seems to be that "agree to disagree" means "I bow to the intellectual superiority of your position" or, more simply put, "you're right and I'm wrong".

As the male in a romantic relationship, it is your duty to say precisely that.

[Guest]

If it's my opinion that green is the best color, and Vort's opinion that blue is the best color, and there's little hope of either of us convincing the other to like our color better, does someone lose if we agree to disagree? Does every discussion or argument need to have a winner and a loser?

Back on topic, I am open to civil discourse regarding the election or anything else. Most of my husband's family is strongly on one side of it, most of my family is strongly on the other, and we sit somewhere in the middle. We can handle it. But when people start getting insulting and belligerent, I take them off my feed. I may or may not add them back sometime in 2013.

[annewandering]

Well at least I now know why some people are angry if I say we can agree to disagree.

Sometimes I walk away and say that because the other person is just bullheaded and does not even consider that there can be another opinion than their own.

It might also be that I am just tired of being verbally attacked by an idiot and I dont want to waste more of my time.

Sometimes I might even be wanting to be polite to a person I am not going to agree with and they are not going to agree with me but its been an interesting conversation. :)

Nevertheless I have NEVER said it because I can not defend my opinion. Ever.

[dahlia]

Ok, ok, this is a pretty heated political time but for the life of me, is it too much for people to behave? I have facebook friends who post political views from both sides of the spectrum. Not a problem. I may not agree but it's good to read them because I get to know not only what others think about issues, but I also get to know the poster better. It's actually very cool.

But I just unfriended one because she just kept on posting "are they dumb?" type stuff. The last one was the final straw, it was a rand about how stupid, dumb, ignorant the opposing party is about fiscal issues. Just full of vitriol. I don't need that.

So I unfriended her. We'll see what happens this Sunday in church. But man, now I lost some respect for this person. Is it too much to ask my friends to not subject me to this type of rabid hatred. At the least, it's what I don't want in a friends.

I am FB friends with some people from my PhD program. One is an avowed socialist from Scandinavia, but we listen to each other and tease each other about politics. Others are just so mired in their beliefs that, while I want to maintain the connection, I need to hide them so I don't see their rants everyday. There are some people who were previously mild-mannered, but as the campaign heats up, their rhetoric goes up as well. I may have to hide a few more people before November.

As for me, I feel constrained because I have a big career decision coming down and people who don't know me personally will be judging my work and, I'm sure, googling and FBing me. I have had to hold my tongue for fear that my political beliefs will be used against me. I hate being a coward, but there you are.

It's easier to deal with these people when you don't see their rants everyday. You don't have to unfriend them if you think that will cause problems; just hide them.

I also agree that you aren't going to change anyone's mind with a FB post, so why bother getting into these big conversations? Same goes for talking about Mormonism with atheists, rabid gays, or rabid feminists. It's not worth the energy. As to 'every member a missionary' and wondering if you should spend time trying to convert these folks, I say 'no.' There are too many people who are truly looking for and ready for the Gospel to waste time on people who just want to bash and don't want a conversation. Pearls before swine, and all that...

[annewandering]

I post politics on facebook and find the responses to be very interesting. Dahlia, it is not true that no one is goinkg to change their minds. I have had people pm me and ask more because they dont understand why I feel so strongly on some of the subjects. They tell me thanks for posting so they can learn more about the issues.

I do try not to be hateful but there have been a few occasions when I have lost my temper on an issue. I am not perfect. Still being respectful does go a long way.

[Wingnut]

As for me, I feel constrained because I have a big career decision coming down and people who don't know me personally will be judging my work and, I'm sure, googling and FBing me. I have had to hold my tongue for fear that my political beliefs will be used against me. I hate being a coward, but there you are.

Doesn't sound cowardly to me. In your situation, it sounds prudent.

[Hala401]

I get the emails as well as the posts on FB.

I really do not like or respect one of the candidates, Hubby & Heavenly Father know my real feelings - no one else ever will!

BUT there are a couple of ladies from Church who I now have to sit down and ask them to please not send me any more emails regarding this particular person. Like you Slamjet- I don't want the vitriol, rabid hatred In. My. Face. from emails.

Hubby reads aloud to me about political goings on in the US - and I get the gut wrenching, terrified feeling that we are soon to be over run with Satan's minions and will be annihilated - painfully - in the next decade or less.

I am not fearful of death, I am terrified of pain! I have asked Hubby to not read it aloud to me anymore. I want to be ignorant of it. I Do Not Like this horrible, sick, feeling of total despair that I get.

{sigh ~ time to listen to & get lost in: Bach, Beethoven and Ella Fitzgerald! ~ sigh}

Reluctantly, I am for the wrong side. I cancelled both FB accounts because of it. And, you know what, I still live. It just makes me sad that people do not sit down and do solid research into the issues.

[Blackmarch]

Facebook? What's that?

Yeah, one of the reasons I don't go in it is because I don't want to experience the disappointment when some relative or acquaintance that I thought was oh, so cool, posts things that are just plain dumb.

ugh FB... a pox on that company forever.

[EarlJibbs]

Aahhhh....The joy of being a troll on FB. When I get on, I rarely reply to anything. I mainly like to see what is going on in everone elses lives. It's kind of like people watching in a crowded food court. You get to snicker, without anyone punching you in the face.

I do post things every once in a while. But things that would be useful to all of my virtual "friends" about keeping up with me. Nothing more.

[talisyn]

If you are interested in how to get a political discussion really heated...

A Template For Every Awful Facebook Discussion You've Ever Witnessed

Brilliant!

I post political stuff all the time, but I like to think what I post is well-thought out and ripe for a good discussion. Unfortunately others in my family feel that everything someone says that reflects poorly on their whatever of choice is a personal attack on them.

[annewandering]

Brilliant!

I post political stuff all the time, but I like to think what I post is well-thought out and ripe for a good discussion. Unfortunately others in my family feel that everything someone says that reflects poorly on their whatever of choice is a personal attack on them.

Remember when one of my brothers made an account so he could send me a IM yelling at me for being evil and stupid for not being in his preferred category? He pretty much said I was going to hades for it. I thought it was worth copy and pasting on my wall to demonstrate the rabitity of fanatics. Not sure he appreciated it but oh well. I dont like being screamed at either.

One of my kids unfriended me and at least one other limited what posts they see from me. lol.

Talisyn, I know I am less radical than you are, :), but people do get annoyed dont they.

[classylady]

I don't post political stuff on fb. I don't reply to any of my fb friends political posts. I rarely even read their political posts. So, that means I'm doing a lot of scrolling down through all the fb posts.

I love fb. But, I have a few pet peeves: inane sayings that everyone feels they have to share, some random photo with click like and my dad will quit drugs, photos of people with disabilities and click like if you think they're beautiful, etc. I prefer posts that tell me what's actually going on in a friends life.

Edited September 21, 2012 by classylady

[Vort]

If only I had clicked "Like", maybe the doctors would have saved that child from leukemia.

[annewandering]

I really hate photos of dying kids wanting votes or something. It is beyond my understanding why they would be posted in the first place and why they are shared in the second place. I have photos of my son who died. It would shock me to see them posted all over the internet. Yesterday there was one of a childs face as he took his last breath. That is just sick.

I would rather be inundated with tons of the political opposition or just about anything.

Oh and the "I love my son/daughter/mother/father etc and if you really do love yours then you will click like and share or we know you really hate them".

arg.

[beefche]

I agree, anne. I absolutely HATE those horrible pics of people or animals in such a state.

But, the ones that annoy me are the ones that say, "I'm trying to see how many really read my posts...." Weeellll, you just earned yourself a "hiding" from me....