Counsel From the Bishop

[Wingnut]

I think Vort and MOE should just kiss and make up.

I think I might have something to say about it...

[Suzie]

Given MOE's current avatar, that could be . . . awkward.

In all honesty and not trying to be funny, when I read Pam's sentence quickly I read it sooo wrong eh specially the very last word. lol

[MarginOfError]

Dude. When both Vort and MOE are in agreement, the thinking has been done.

I think Vort and MOE should just kiss and make up.

Given MOE's current avatar, that could be . . . awkward.

I think I might have something to say about it...

In all honesty and not trying to be funny, when I read Pam's sentence quickly I read it sooo wrong eh specially the very last word. lol

I think this qualifies as the most hysterical string of posts I've ever read here.

[FunkyTown]

You might think it's hilarious, MOE, but I'm pretty sure your wife is:

[Guest]

Hey MoE. Where's the popcorn?

[Vort]

I think Vort and MOE should just kiss and make up.

[MorningStar]

I go to click on this thread and the first thing I see is the Gene Simmons picture. I was thinking, "THAT'S your advice from the bishop?!"

[NightSG]

I go to click on this thread and the first thing I see is the Gene Simmons picture. I was thinking, "THAT'S your advice from the bishop?!"

Sounds like something my bishop might do, actually.

[Wingnut]

Is it just me, or is Vort showing just a little too much tongue in that picture? Mods, are we sure that's really appropriate?

[MorningStar]

Well, briefly as a summary, I have recently been engaged to the love of my life and someone I really cherish. She has an amazing personality, great goals, etc. I knew her before my mission, etc.

Recently though after being engaged, we've been hanging out together quite often which is to be expected. We ended up slipping up and having oral sex while staying out too late at night.

We went to the bishop that I personally know as a great man and has helped me alot, given me counsel with future goals, etc. Great family friend. We talked with him and as a result, we would have to move the date of the marriage back 3 months since our goal was to enter the temple and do so.

The current situation is with my fiance. She does feel that the counsel and time for the actual delay was too extreme. She had know that her sister had done things farther than that and still had simply a month added.

I understand that certain counsel is for certain people and that it can be by the Spirit as well as by the standard protocol. I have spent alot of time trying to let her know that the man is trying to go by the Spirit as well and follow how he feels inside.

How can I better help my fiance know that the counsel he had given to us was for us? or was the counsel too much?

Thanks!

So where the heck are you guys hanging out together that you have the opportunity to have oral sex? Your fiance doesn't sound like she takes the temple seriously and should be glad you don't have to wait a year. Bishops don't have a chart that shows x amount of delay for behavior y. Some people take longer to repent than others.

You will have your whole married life to be alone together and have sex. Go out with each other in public, don't hang out in the car, and make sure you have someone with you.

[annewandering]

Back to the post. Ok. BOTH her and her sister have been in the same boat? Why do you suppose that might be? When you decided to go to the bishop was it your idea or hers? Is her sister still married? What is the family background on sex?

A lot of questions but is it possible that she just doesnt think its a big deal? If so you might want to back up and take a look at this a bit more.

Do you think its a big deal? If so it sounds like you have a big difference on what is right and wrong. Right now that means waiting 3 months but consider this. 18 years from now your daughter or son is getting serious about some one and they are spending a lot of time together. Will they think its a big deal or not? Kids learn attitudes from parent/s.

[NewToBe]

It's not just the sex. It's that in combination with the shortness of the relationship and their mismatched levels of spirituality.

Shortness of the relationship doesn't always relate directly to how things turn out. I have many friends as well as family that have been very happy, as many others that have posted here with marriages lasting 30+ years and still married. Not directly connected. As for spirituality levels, that's always going to be something people will have to work with as they have been led into the church in different situations; being a convert, born into the church, living in different family situations, etc. Opinions as well as beliefs even being mormon for many years have different aspects of things in the church even after being taught the same things. So ofcourse there will be different spirituality levels as well as understanding.

NewToBe, I would like to re-give my earlier advice from your earlier thread, before your latest development:

If anything, your latest post demonstrates a greater liklihood that you're heading into a horrible trainwreck. No really - break the engagement. This is a horrible idea. Wait at least one year.

I would actually prefer if you would stick to help answer the question I was really asking. I appreciate your opinion, but I would prefer if you kept it. Thanks

To be frank, I understand it's obvious that we wait the time. I am trying to understand how clergical help works w/ the repentance part. Even being on a mission doesn't necessarily give someone that understanding. We've come to terms with it as we are trying to do things right and are looking seriously and with true intent trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. We are going through the repentance part right now and both agreed in the end that it was important to follow the counsel.

Thanks for your responses, but I think alot of you didn't even answer the sought question.

[Vort]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[Soulsearcher]

Agreed. There's no such thing as "slipping and having oral sex."

To quote The West Wing: "I don't understand. Did you trip?"

I was waiting to hear that one from you lol

[Backroads]

NewToBe, if it were just the shortness of relationship, I wouldn't bat an eye. But from your posts I'm getting a vibe of several things-that-wouldn't-be-a-big-deal-on-their-own combining for problems.

By all means, obey the bishop's council, but you both need to be internalizing this. Just don't go through the motions so you can check off the temple marriage box.

[Connie]

How can I better help my fiance know that the counsel he had given to us was for us? or was the counsel too much?

Thanks!

No the counsel was not too much. Some things you might try to help yourself and your fiancee are studying and talking about the gospel together. Study the gospel principles of faith, repentance, the atonement, the law of chastity, the importance of worthiness and the temple, obedience, etc. Talk about these things together and strive to never be alone. Always do your talking together in a public place, a restaurant, a library, the lobby of the institute building, a park, somewhere lots of people are likely to be.

Hope that helps.

[Just_A_Guy]

I am trying to understand how clergical help works w/ the repentance part. Even being on a mission doesn't necessarily give someone that understanding.

Bishops can occasionally provide great insight, but more fundamentally: they're judges in Israel. They're supposed to gauge whether the repentance has been genuine, and whether the offender is now genuinely willing to do things the Lord's way rather than persist in the old habit of making up one's own rules.

The best-kept repentance secret in the Church is the addiction recovery program, and even though your problem isn't addiction per se I'd heartily encourage you to read the manual.

And incidentally: I entirely agree with Andenex. As males who have received the Endowment we are held to a higher standard, and if the only Church penalty for oral sex is three months' informal probation we should consider ourselves darned lucky. People get excommunicated for that kind of thing.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Just_A_Guy

[Wingnut]

And incidentally: I entirely agree with Andenex. As males who have received the Endowment we are held to a higher standard, and if the only Church penalty for oral sex is three months' informal probation we should consider ourselves darned lucky. People get excommunicated for that kind of thing.

Good point. Isn't that the kind of thing that an endowed Priesthood holder would lose his temple recommend over?

[RipFoster]

Some of the responses are a little extreme here. A friend of mine and I got speeding tickets in the same town, same amount of miles over limit, not to far apart from each other. Judge gave him a warning, me a $100 fine. Is it telling of a much deeper problem if I question why I got fined and he didn't? Should I stop driving until I mature a little?

I don't think the marriage is doomed for failure just because of a mistake or because she was a little disappointed with the council. Continue to work together and with the bishop and move on.

[RipFoster]

Good point. Isn't that the kind of thing that an endowed Priesthood holder would lose his temple recommend over?

could, sure. Would? Depends on many factors, most importantly the bishop's call

[Guest]

I don't think the marriage is doomed for failure just because of a mistake or because she was a little disappointed with the council. Continue to work together and with the bishop and move on.

Unfortunately, this is not the only issue that NewToBe divulged on this relationship. I think his other thread is linked on this thread somewhere.

[Wingnut]

In addition to Anatess's comment, it's not like this was a "little mistake" or 10 MPH over the limit. This was oral sex. The OP is 3 months home from his mission.

[Backroads]

I don't think the marriage is doomed for failure just because of a mistake or because she was a little disappointed with the council. Continue to work together and with the bishop and move on.

No, I don't think any of us can give a sure call on whether or not this relationship is forever doomed or if these two will one day be happily celebrating their 50th wedding anniversary with 200 descendants about. But it seems there are, at the very least, things worth taking a closer look at.

Look, we've had plenty of people on this forum ask similar questions--in very different circumstances.

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