Is it actually...

[wyarwehere]

A friend and I were having a discussion tonight, and the topic was math. The questions are, Is Algebra truly math. and, Is Statistics actually math.

My theory, algebra isn't math because letters and numbers just don't go together.

His theory, statistics is numbers being manipulated in a non-math way.

Can those of you who are older and wiser than us offer your opinion?

[pam]

My opinion? Math is evil.

[Jennarator]

I think the oppositemformstats. ,I say stats are words being manipulated mathematically.

[selek]

My thought is that algebra is "math" in the same way that the Atonement is "justice".

Just as the Savior stands in proxy for us, the letters stand in proxy for the numbers needed to make the equation balance.

As the statistics, I side with Twain: "There are lies, damned lies, and stastics."

Each step indicates a greater degree of intended deception.

[wyarwehere]

My opinion? Math is evil.

I think after today I would have to agree with you. What started the subject was that I took college placement exams today, and there were two algebra tests. One was basic algebra, and the other more advanced stuff. Things I saw my senior year of high school. You know, the year where you don't pay attention for about 3/4 of the year. :)

[pam]

I think after today I would have to agree with you. What started the subject was that I took college placement exams today, and there were two algebra tests. One was basic algebra, and the other more advanced stuff. Things I saw my senior year of high school. You know, the year where you don't pay attention for about 3/4 of the year. :)

The last year of math I took was in my 9th grade year of school. That was long time ago.

[classylady]

Making the decision to get my college degree in my 40's, math was my biggest fear. My fear was justified, but yet at the same time, I actually learned to love math. It's like putting pieces of a puzzle together to come to a correct answer.

[bytebear]

I ended up getting a degree in math simply because it was a few extra classes with my regular degree. All I can say is it took higher level calculus (second order differential equations) before it all started making sense.

[kapikui]

A friend and I were having a discussion tonight, and the topic was math. The questions are, Is Algebra truly math. and, Is Statistics actually math.

My theory, algebra isn't math because letters and numbers just don't go together.

His theory, statistics is numbers being manipulated in a non-math way.

Can those of you who are older and wiser than us offer your opinion?

Algebra is NOT math, algebra is the notation FOR math. Algebra is no more math than the alphabet is literature.

Perhaps by saying "letters and numbers just don't go together" you are actually confusing math with arithmetic. Math is far more.

[annewandering]

Numbers = Math The letters in algebra are strictly representative. Any symbol would work instead of letters but letters are easy since we are already familiar with them.

For that matter numbers are only symbols for how many. sighs. I really dont like math very much. If it were all letters maybe it would be more fun. Figure working in a 26 base system. FUN!!!

[Guest]

I've been watching a lot of Dr. Who lately. Apparently in Great Britain (or Wales, as that's where the show is made), they call it "maths" instead of "math". That makes sense to me.

[Vort]

Everything before algebra -- arithmetic, decimals, fractions -- is just protomath. Algebra is the earliest point where "math" actually starts getting mathematical. Geometry is great fun, and trig is just The Most Amazing Thing Evar. And then things get interesting.

[pam]

After reading some of these comments it's no wonder I don't like math or arithmetic or whatever you all want to call it.

[Dravin]

Is Statistics actually math.

Statistics is a mathematical science, but it's not math per se. I'm going to quote Wikipedia here:

Statistics is the study of the collection, organization, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data.

The collection, organisation, analysis, interpretation, and presentation of data uses math, but is not itself math.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Ohhhh! Math is so much more than numbers!

[MarginOfError]

In it's most pure essence, mathematics is about neither number nor letters. It is about logic. It is the science of using established theorems and verified proofs to quantify and express abstract relationships between variables.

Unlike other hard sciences, many of the "truths" of mathematics can be proven and are not open to interpretation.

Algebra can be considered the science of relating variables/functions in their current (steady) state.

Calculus can be considered the science of relating variables/functions in a variable* state.

Statistics can be the science of relating variables/functions in the face of uncertainty and incomplete information

These sciences have very little to do with numbers. In fact, as a person with degrees in mathematics and statistics, I very rarely look at numbers at all.

As a statistician by trade, I have to rant on the statement that "statistics is numbers being manipulated in a non-math way." Everything I do as a statistician is based on a theorem with an established mathematical proof. Whether those methods satisfy the assumptions of that theorem is an entirely different question. Sometimes I use a method because it satisfies the assumptions, and sometimes I use a method knowing that it doesn't but I don't have a very good alternative method available. Sometimes I use a mix of inappropriate methods to try and create partial information on a hypothesis from different angles.

Statistical research is not about generating answers. It's about helping your data tell a story. The "lies, damned lies, and statistics" comes into play when people try to use methodologies to tell their own story instead of letting the data tell its story.

But that isn't a matter of statistics being math...that's a matter of whether people are using the math appropriately or inappropriately.

*In the sense of changing conditions, not in the sense of a variable in a formula

[Anddenex]

x = unknown number; number = symbol for how many

"x" occupies a space for a unknown number; symbol for how many

Algebra = Math, or as Vort shared protomath

Yep, feel free to call me a genius.

[Wingnut]

[skippy740]

I have a little experience with Algebra & Statistics.

It is my opinion that both are a type of 'comparative measurement' using numbers.

Think about it: All those algebraic questions are all in the world of theory. If you were working with actual items, the answer is right in front of you. I'm in an Algebra class right now, and so far, there is no problem that I've been given that would ever be used 'in the real world'.

Statistics is about the probability of an outcome with given parameters. They are measured against each other. Again, comparative measurement.

But I admit that I'm not the most scholastically minded person, nor do I hold a college degree at this time.

[bytor2112]

The last year of math I took was in my 9th grade year of school. That was long time ago.

So long ago...it was probably called Arithmetic.

[Dravin]

I have a little experience with Algebra & Statistics.

It is my opinion that both are a type of 'comparative measurement' using numbers.

Think about it: All those algebraic questions are all in the world of theory. If you were working with actual items, the answer is right in front of you. I'm in an Algebra class right now, and so far, there is no problem that I've been given that would ever be used 'in the real world'.

Haven't covered Distance = Rate*Time problems yet? People solve those all the time, they just don't think of it as algebra.

[Vort]

Mathematics is the single, unique aspect of our world in which we can imagine we have achieved perfection. There is comfort in the honesty of knowing there is an actual, black-or-white answer, and there is a feeling of triumph in being able to find that answer. Mathphiles love math because, at its core, it is an almost religious experience.

[Traveler]

Everything before algebra -- arithmetic, decimals, fractions -- is just protomath. Algebra is the earliest point where "math" actually starts getting mathematical. Geometry is great fun, and trig is just The Most Amazing Thing Evar. And then things get interesting.

At least there is one person in the forum with a mathematical IQ. Algebra is definitely included in math theory. Going beyond number theory (from integer to real numbers) one will logically arrive at ring theory of which Algebra theory expands commutative ring theory. Algebriac geometry is a natural example of a commutative ring.

Many concepts of modern religion come directly from Algebra - for example infinity. Algebra opens up and expands our modern understanding of the universe and G-d. Religion as we in modern times understand it would not exist without the basic theoretical understandings of rings and algebra. But like so many things in "Science" those of religion reference and rely on and do not understand why.

The Traveler

[Saldrin]

Math is a four letter word. be careful in its usage

[Dravin]

Mathematics is the single, unique aspect of our world in which we can imagine we have achieved perfection. There is comfort in the honesty of knowing there is an actual, black-or-white answer, and there is a feeling of triumph in being able to find that answer. Mathphiles love math because, at its core, it is an almost religious experience.

I also think those who like math are more inclined to see the underlying math in problems or solutions, such as the aforementioned"Dirt" problems.