Want to learn more!

[jdcofc]

I am a member and Elder of the Community of Christ. (Formerly RLDS) I love this church and the direction that it is moving. I want to learn more about the LDS church and about how our beliefs are different and similar(if any!) As we are going through the next couple of weeks and conducting our World and USA National conferences, I feel that the changes that will possibly be made, will help this church grow into the people God is calling us to become and realize that the mission of Jesus Christ is what matters most. If anyone would be interested in learning more about the CofC and wouldn't mind sharing with me a little bit about the LDS church, that would be great! I want to post the last two sections of the Doctrine and Covenants that really explains the direction we are moving.

Doctrine and Covenants Section 163

Every day since being ordained as prophet-president, I have carried the needs of the church on my heart. Sometimes the weight of concern has seemed almost unbearable. Perhaps this is as it should be, because the heaviness of responsibility has pressed me to seek the mind and will of God as never before. Striving to be open to the guidance of the Spirit, while attempting to lay aside my own preconceived notions, has been a challenging but necessary learning experience. And, as I have sought to perceive God’s will for the church through prayer, study, and listening for the Creator’s voice in the voices of the faith community, I have been blessed by the Spirit in various, sometimes surprising ways.

The words and images that follow have been birthed through much struggle, not because of any lack of inspiration, but because of the limitations of the human vessel entrusted with responsibility for articulating divine encounter. Attempting to communicate in words what is ultimately beyond words always leaves one with a sense of incompleteness. Added to this is the challenge of creating phrases that can be translated into the languages of the international church without loss of essential meanings. Fortunately, we have the promise that one of the primary functions of the Holy Spirit is to bear witness of divine truth beyond the confines of language and culture.

Therefore, it is in deep humility and with heartfelt gratitude to God that I offer the following counsel as a witness of God’s eternal purpose and continuing activity in the life of the church. In so doing, I place these words in the church’s hand, trusting that the Spirit will enable the faith community to hear the call of God today with increasing clarity.

<Mod edit Copyright concerns>

Edited April 22, 2013 by estradling75
Copyright concerns

[NeuroTypical]

Hi cousin! You can find all sorts of stuff out about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at LDS.org.

Anything specific on your mind?

[Suzie]

Hi jdcofc, it's interesting because just the other day I was thinking that it would be nice to have a member of the Community of Christ here. Welcome. :)

[BadWolf]

Anyone want to CliffNote the differences for a relatively new LDS-chick?

BW

[pam]

Hi jdcofc, it's interesting because just the other day I was thinking that it would be nice to have a member of the Community of Christ here. Welcome. :)

Actually we've had an active member in the past. She just hasn't been around much lately.

[skippy740]

Here she is: cofchristcousins Profile » LDS Social Network

You're right, I haven't seen her around lately.

[ZionsRodeVos]

Hi jdcofc,

I read a good portion of that section. One difference I noted is that I did not feel the same way reading that as I have felt reading the Book of Mormon or Doctrine and Covenants we have.

I can't say I know much about the Community of Christ. But wouldn't mind learning some about it.

Our Doctrine and Covenants only goes up to section 138. So that is one difference. I'm guessing that your section 163 is the one that was added when your church's name changed. Would that be correct?

I've heard that the Doctrine and Covenants your church uses has had sections removed from it from time to time as well as sections added. Is that right? And if so then do all the sections get renumbered or do you simply have gaps between section numbers.

[Vort]

Anyone want to CliffNote the differences for a relatively new LDS-chick?

Wikipedia is a good place to start.

The Community of Christ, formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is an offshoot created after Joseph Smith was murdered. Joseph's wife Emma, who did not go West with Brigham Young and the majority of the Saints, was involved in its founding, and her and Joseph's son, Joseph Smith III, was eventually tapped to be the prophet. They referred to the Utah Saints as "Brighamites", since they -- we -- followed Brigham Young and recognized him as the senior apostle and leader of the Church. They created a new Quorum of Twelve and First Presidency, essentially seeking to reproduce the leadership structure of the Church. For a long time, they denied that Joseph Smith had ever practiced polygamy, though I doubt any of them deny that today.

The CoC has evolved away from Joseph Smith's restorationist doctrines and has become more doctrinally pluralistic and religiously conformist to larger Christian sectarian doctrines. Many CoC members now openly reject the Book of Mormon as literal history or divine scripture, and I gather a significant number aren't really comfortable with the whole idea of modern prophets and One True Church. They decided it wasn't fair that men alone held Priesthood authority, so they began ordaining women to their priesthood a generation ago.

There are still some RLDS members who reject recent changes and hold to the traditional doctrines they believe were taught by Joseph Smith. Not sure how they are faring. When I was younger and foolisher (yes, it's true, I have been even more foolish in the past than I am now), I had delusions that many RLDS, seeing the changes in the CoC and the abandonment of some of what used to be considered core doctrines, would decide the "Brighamites" may have been right, after all, and would investigate and then join the LDS Church in droves, so that we would see a wave of our estranged brothers and sisters coming back into the fold. Obviously, my fantasy never materialized.

[NeuroTypical]

A guy in my ward is former RLDS. Nice guy, nice family.

[jdcofc]

I believe that we have taken some things out of the D&C that you may still use. We do add to the D&C. Section 164 was given to us last. Our World Conference starts on Sunday and then next weekend we will have our USA National Conference. Steve Veazey, our Prophet/President has released a statement that he will give another "Words of Counsel" to the church Sunday night at conference. I don't think it will be submitted to the D&C but I don't now for sure! Section 156 was given to the church through Wallace B. Smith and was the inclusion for women to be ordained to the priesthood. I don't think that it was because people felt that it was "unfair," I think that it was just an overwhelming sense of calling people felt for women. As for the name change, that happened in 2001.

As for our church moving away from the teachings of Joseph Smith, I would say that it varies. It depends on where you are. In the area that I am in here in southern Ohio, it has a rich history in the church. The first RLDS congregation that was started in Ohio is about 30 minutes from here and it was started in 1880. A missionary from that congregation came to this area and planted a congregation in 1912. It started in 1904 but wasn't established as a congregation until 1912. There are now 4 congregations within 20 minutes of each other. Many people in this area still like to follow the more traditional practices of the church and still use the Book or Mormon. We did have people leave and start a Restorationist congregation when women were able to be ordained. I have never understood why they had a problem with that, but I have been blessed by ministry that was provided by women and honestly wish they would open themselves up to experience that.

If I am not mistaken, our priesthood structure is quite different also. We have the Deacons, Teachers, Priests, Elders, Seventy, High Priest, Bishop, Evangelist, Apostles, First Presidency, Prophet/President. The Seventy, High Priest, Bishop, Evangelists are broke down into Quorums. There is a President of Seventy for each quorum. There is a quorum of High Priest, and also a presiding Bishop over the order of Bishopric and a presiding Evangelist over the order of Evangelist. Then there is a Standing High Counsel and the World Church Leadership Counsel. These are counsels to help with issues that are facing the church so that broader discussion can be used to help find solutions to problems and issues that may arise in the church. To be called to the priesthood in our church I think is quite different from the LDS. In our church a pastor is typically the one who senses and initiates a call to the priesthood for the office of Deacon, Teacher, Priest and Elder. The Mission Center president can initiate those calls if he/she feels that there is a call for someone in the pastor's immediate family. It is a little confusing! Pastors that are in the Aaronic PH cannot initiate a call for someone to the office of Elder. Deacons and teachers cannot perform any of the sacraments and Priests can only ordain those that are ordained to the office of Priest, Teacher or Deacon. Priesthood calls are something that is divinely given to those in the proper authority so that they feel a sense of calling for that person and is often needed to be confirmed by at least 3 other people in the congregational/mission center leadership that someone does indeed have a call to the priesthood. After it has been approved, the individual is approached and they have one year to respond with a yes or no to accept the call. Calls to the priesthood in offices other than these have to be initiated by the Mission Center President, quorum presidents or apostles. It doesn't matter what age or your gender, anyone could be called to any office. Typically younger people will be called to the Aaronic Priesthood. Well, lets just say that in the area that I am in, it is kind of uncommon for a younger person to be called to the priesthood. I was called to a priest in 2007 and an elder in 2010 but I was in Chattanooga, TN in a inner city ministry for 5 years. I was 21 when I was called to a priest. Back here in Ohio that is quite uncommon for someone that age to be ordained to the priesthood. We have moved away from our church being the "One true church" but I do feel that there is something special about the CofC. I have experienced many things that allow me to testify to the power of Christ in this church and it keeps getting better.

Edited April 12, 2013 by jdcofc

[Guest]

Another difference that I remember from some of our discussions with cofchristcousin is that the CofC accepts same-sex marriages. Did I get that right?

[jdcofc]

This is actually a very controversial issue right now. In D&C 164 it states that we should convene national conferences to sort through issues that may or may not be acceptable from one nation to another. Our USA National Conference will be next weekend in Independende, MO. The issue being discussed and voted on will be allowing those is a committed homosexual relationship to be ordained, to allow priesthood to perform same sex marriages to be performed in areas where it is legal, and to have comittment ceremonies where marriage isn't possible. Canada and Austrailia have already passed it. There hasn't been revelation about the exact issue yet but I think it will be mentioned in the words of counsel to the church this Sunday by our prophet.

[norah63]

I was raised in the rlds church. Things started to go down hill imo in the eighties. Women in the priesthood. Themes to lead us toward a more liberal way of thinking. Many of the older saints didn't understand when I departed. I feel sad for them, they have no voice in many things, and I realized this when I left. Even in sunday school the Book of Mormon was played down and wanting to be inclusive (what ever that means) was on the agenda.

The collage age thinking from so many progressive thinkers was on the move in all denominations.

Breathing out the same old, hath God said, that was whispered in the garden in the beginning.

I hope it doesn't make inroads into the LDS. It is a sad time for this old world.

[AnthonyB]

jdcofc,

Did it get mentioned in the "counsel to the church"?

[AnthonyB]

Norah,

Curious to hear more about what you believe.....

Is BoM still scripture to you?

Is JS a genuine prophet of God?

Are eternal marriages possible?

[prisonchaplain]

It's my understanding (as an evangelical) that I would be more comfortable theologically with the CoC, but culturally and politically with the CoJCoLDS. True?

[norah63]

Only as the Holy Spirit teaches is any Scripture accepted by anyone.

When I read the Book of Mormon for the first time in my early years, it was just like bible to me.'Truth plain and simple. Having already read the bible through, I didn't find any problems reading any other scripture. Jesus has always helped me with the 'fear not' part of His plan.

As for prophets, there have been many, and still it is the way Christ has His church.

Apostles and prophets, teachers, ect... I have even seen a few on the tv, each must discern.

As for me, when I married it was, what God has joined togeather let not man put asunder. If I am blessed with my dear husband of fifty years through all eternity, it will be a joy. Love never fails.

[cofchristcousin]

Hi everyone! I've been lurking for a few weeks since few people have emailed recently. It's nice to be missed lol. I finally recovered my password so I can post with you all. :) I know the original poster irl somewhat.

Community of Christ decided to consider gay marriages and ordinations in countries where it is an issue. Australia and Canada, and now the USA conferences have recommended removing the restrictions, policies will be formally changes in about a year. The special conferences required 2/3 of the delegates to approve, rather than a simple majority. The USA approval was by about 75 % and Australia and Canada were in threads and 90s. That being said, I think it's not quite so high in many congregations. I know many who are struggling.

To answer prisonchaplins question, most congregations are mixed theologically and politically. There might be evangelical saints next to very liberal, next to someone very focused on Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. A blessing and a challenge lol

[pam]

Welcome back Stacey. I'm glad to see you posting again. :)

[cofchristcousin]

Anthony, the words of counsel to the world church did not specifically mention gay marriage and ordinations. Here is part of the text that is relevant, nonetheless.

greater than initially assumed.

Following the approval of Doctrine and Covenants 164, I continued to prayerfully explore certain principles in it. A particular focus was paragraph 5, where the following words appear, approved by the World Conference as authoritative for our life together:

It is imperative to understand that when you are truly baptized into Christ you become part of a new creation. By taking on the life and mind of Christ, you increasingly view yourself and others from a changed perspective. Former ways of defining people by economic status, social class, sex, gender, or ethnicity no longer are primary. Through the gospel of Christ, a new community of tolerance, reconciliation, unity in diversity, and love is being born as a visible sign of the coming reign of God.

As indicated in the preface to Section 164, study of Galatians 3:27–29 was foundational to this counsel. Following the approval of Section 164, I persisted in asking God about the meaning and implications of paragraph 5 and Galatians 3:27–29. I sought additional understanding of the spiritual condition that would allow us to see ourselves and others from the changed perspective emphasized in Section 164:5. My journey continued as I was encouraged to study John 17.

John 17 conveys the prayer of Jesus for his disciples as he approaches death on the cross. As I reflected on this text, the Spirit urged me to invite the church to go much deeper in its understanding of the oneness with and among his disciples, who Jesus prayed for. Catching sight of the possible future, I marveled at the blessings that could be enjoyed by the church as we respond. I was left with two questions: “Are we willing to continue to become such a community for Christ and the cause of Zion?” And, “What will it take for us to truly be a community of oneness, mutuality, and revelation of divine love through Christ?”

The following words arose as the Spirit’s voice to the church in response to that experience and those questions:

More fully accept and embody your oneness and equality in Jesus Christ, who dwells in oneness with God.

Oneness and equality in Christ are realized through the waters of baptism, confirmed by the Holy Spirit, and sustained through the sacrament of Communion. Embrace the full meaning of these sacraments and be spiritually joined in Christ as never before.

However, be aware, it is not right to profess oneness and equality in Christ through sacramental covenants and then to deny that equality by attitude, word, or action. Such behavior wounds Christ’s body and denies what is eternally resolved in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

You do not fully understand many interrelated processes of human creation. Through its wonderful complexity, creation produces both diversity and order. Be not consumed with concern about variety in human types and characteristics as you see them. Be passionately concerned about how God is revealing divine nature through sacred communities of love, oneness, and equality that embody God’s revelation in Jesus Christ.

Oneness and equality in Christ do not mean uniformity. They mean unity in diversity and relating in Christ-like love to the circumstances of others as if they were one’s own. They also mean full opportunity for people to experience human worth and related rights, including expressing God-given giftedness through the church community.

Regarding priesthood, God calls whoever God calls from among committed disciples, according to their gifts, to serve and reach all humankind. Priesthood policies and procedures provide a clear way for disciples to respond to calling. They also define the difference between a sense of call as potential and the need to align one’s life with principles of moral behavior and relationships that promote the well-being of the church community.

041413wordsofCounsel

[Magen_Avot]

While on my mission I and 5 other Elders went to an RLDS meeting and listened to Apostle C. Eugene Austin speak in Ontario, Canada. It was interesting and I'm glad I went.

I also had a husband/wife investigator come to church. They were late because they first went to the RLDS church in town. Despite the anxiety that engenders, it brought opportunity to answer more questions, as you might imagine.

[pam]

Since the OP is no longer with us, I'm going to close.