Adult son involved in sexual relationship with a minor

[Torn]

We have discovered that my 19 year old son is sexually involved with his 17 year old girlfriend (as well as his 16 year old girlfriend before that) physically and through sexting and both girls also sent him many nude photo's of themselves - which he still has.

We've tried explaining the legal ramifications of this - they are distributing child porn and he is in possession of it. He could care less.

We've talked to him a lot about using protection as both of these girls had have had multiple sexual partners (both are also active LDS - go figure) to avoid pregnancy as well as any STD's they may have picked up. He could care less.

He likes to remind us he has his agency and can do whatever he wants. He gets really upset if we even bring up the subject.

He is in college and while he does have a (academic) scholarship that pays for his housing/tuition, he is financially dependant upon us for his car, cell phone, insurance, living expenses. He works part time in the summer, making enough to buy his books and that's about it. He needs a major dose of tough love - but - never fear, his grandpa will always step in and give him whatever he wants. Currently he is living at home, continuing on with his lifestyle, refusing to attend church. We have given him rules - no girls in his bedroom, etc, but he can always find plenty of friends who will lend him a private space for the night.

The girls parents know she is "wild" but I don't think they know about the pictures. They are good friends, yet I worry what they would do legally if they knew. Although the girl has also distributed nude photos of herself to many other boys. She has encouraged my own daughter to do it as well - which she has not (but she has told us that she has been approached about doing it by this girl).

We are at a complete loss. HELP!

[NeuroTypical]

Sounds like it's time to stop supporting and enabling his lifestyle. Kick him out of the house, change the locks, sieze his cell phone and computer and turn him over to the cops. If grandpa wants to protect him from life's consequenses, grandpa can take the responsibility.

[MorningStar]

Yep. I would tell my son I have my agency too and can turn him in.

[james12]

Stop protecting him. He is making "adult" choices he now needs to face adult consequences. Also, don't excuse yourself based on what others may do. They will do what they will do, but you do the right thing. Tell the parents of the girl, they need to be informed. Give your son consequences as others have stated. It is now beyond telling him not to bring girls to his room. I don't know the whole situation, but he could get a girl pregnant. If he faces consequences with the law he faces consequences with the law. He has clearly been protected for far too long.

[pam]

He might start caring if the consequences were to be having to register as a sex offender. That would not be a good thing.

[annewandering]

Wow he is determined to have his own way and guess what? He can. He is of legal age and obviously is in need of learning consequences for stupid choices. I would boot him with love.

Keep in mind he is a horrible example to his siblings as well. Look whats happened already. One of his friends has tried to corrupt your daughter. He needs to go for their welfare if nothing else.

Edited May 18, 2013 by annewandering

[Just_A_Guy]

Many states have mandatory reporting for child abuse, and a 19-year-old having sex with a 16-year-old may qualify.

You need to talk to a lawyer. Not only might you (depending on your state) be required to go to the police; but you yourself may be committing a crime if you fail to do so.

[selek]

Not only can your son be prosecuted for kiddie porn, the girls can as well.

One of his "conquests" is coaching your daughter to commit a felony?

And you haven't slammed the door in her face!?!?

Your son's "I have my agency" crack is a deliberate slam on your faith and an insult to your values.

He's throwing "scripture" in your face to justify his sin- and he's apparently quite confident that he can bully you into submission, or at least quiesence.

As someone else has pointed out: you may be legally vulnerable for looking the other way.

There is no credible means by which you can deny you are morally guilty for doing so.

He is doing something morally and legally wrong and you are enabling that behavior.

Stop.

Now.

Your son is right that he has the freedom to choose his actions: he does not have the right to endanger you or your family in pursuit of his appetites.

He gets to choose his own actions. The does NOT get to choose the consequences of those choices.

You have other minor children in the house: how do you think CPS would respond if they find out you've been knowingly sheltering (at the very least) a statutory rapist?

You need to act now to limit the "collateral damage" to your family.

[Torn]

We talked to him today about the photos. He admitted he did have photos of his ex-girlfriend but deleted them. He swears that he doesn't have any of the current and never has (but will not let us anywhere near his phone to prove it). It was a friend of my daughters who said she has witnessed the girl sending nude photos to him. He says her phone doesn't send pictures anyway (but she does have an iPod she could use).

And then he pretty much told me to go to hell and that he can and will do anything he wants.

He is currently having a heart to heart with his dad. His dad thinks I'm overreacting and I need to back off. I don't want him to get in ANY legal trouble. He is a brilliant kid with a promising future - who is making some REALLY dumb choices that he doesn't seem to realize is effecting our entire family, nor does he care. Until his first girlfriend came along, he never gave us an ounce of trouble, but once he started sleeping with her, he did a complete 180 (imagine that!!).

And BTW... I HAVE slammed the door in this girls face. She is not welcome in our home and if she doesn't STOP texting my teenage daughter, her number will be blocked.

[Roseslipper]

hi choosingtheright, i am so sorry for what u and your family are going through. Im sure its not an easy postion that your son has put u and your family in. As a mother it must be very very hard, so a prayer was sent out for you and your family, hoping that you will know what to do. Hugs from afar are sent to you ((((chossingtheright)))) to comfort you.

Have u spoken to the bishop?

[M_T_E]

He is being a rebel, I would simply pull the plug on his financing and if the car was under your name I would repo it from him so he is not as easily enabled to offend like he is now. Pull the chord and he will be forced to think twice. You have more power over him than he thinks. It will serve as an eye opener for him.

[Torn]

hi choosingtheright, i am so sorry for what u and your family are going through. Im sure its not an easy postion that your son has put u and your family in. As a mother it must be very very hard, so a prayer was sent out for you and your family, hoping that you will know what to do. Hugs from afar are sent to you ((((chossingtheright)))) to comfort you.

Have u spoken to the bishop?

Thank you. I have spoken to the bishop - though not for about two weeks since this all this has come about (which has happened in the past 24 hours - he just came home from college yesterday). He is planning on talking to him soon, though my son isn't interested in talking to him.

[Martain]

Alma 42:19

17 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment?

18 Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man.

19 Now, if there was no law given—if a man murdered he should die—would he be afraid he would die if he should murder?

20 And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin.

21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature?

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the claw, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

If you did not feel pain and receive a burn for putting your hand in the fire, would you ever remove it? At the moment he is putting his hand in the fire free of pain and free of any burns. If your son does not feel guilt and receive the consequences for breaking these laws, would he ever stop? Without consequences what is there to impede his even further sliding into the depths of hell?

The impact of hitting roadblocks on the road to hell is painful but good in that it checks an individuals fall and gives them an opportunity to start climbing the other way. You are his mother and you love him dearly but is it in his best interest that you continue to remove such roadblocks from his fall?

Should your son die in these sins, depending on whether he had a fair and just opportunity to repent, he is in danger of permanently cutting himself off from a terrestrial and celestial kingdom. Should such happen he will have to pay the full price of God's justice in hell throughout the millennium to then rise to a telestrial kingdom.

Would you rather have your son pay God's justice in hell for over a 1000 years or would it not be better to let consequences compel him to humility in this life in the hopes that it will bring him to repentance?

Alma 32:13 And now, because ye are compelled to be humble blessed are ye; for a man sometimes, if he is compelled to be humble, seeketh repentance; and now surely, whosoever repenteth shall find mercy; and he that findeth mercy and endureth to the end the same shall be saved.

I would prefer that he humble himself unto repentance and turn away from these sins. I would rather offer mercy than inflict justice and so does God. Yet unless you gain personal revelation that given enough time he will repent on his own, I feel it would be better to let him hit those roadblocks rather than let him fall to even more serious sin.

Either way, this matter is very very serious and I do not see how you can make the right decision without a knowledge greater than your own. You need personal revelation and so I bid you seek it. If you are not worthy yourself to obtain it then do what is necessary to become worthy and then seek it until you receive it for it is not only the temporal salvation of your son that hangs in jeopardy but it is his eternal salvation that is in danger of being lost as well.

My prayer goes out to you. May God bless you with the counsel and guidance needed to make these decisions in accordance with his will.

Sincerely,

Brother M.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Martain

[Echo2002]

I agree with Just A Guy, if you have knowledge of these pictures and you haven't reported it to the police then you could get into trouble along with your son.

I would either turn him in or kick him out of the house.

[mrmarklin]

If there is any chance of child porn being on a computer you own, you need to consult an attorney. This includes "deleted" files. Deleted files are still on the hard drive.

Dealing with child porn is a felony and a federal crime if done on the internet.

If your child is dealing with child porn, you need to report him to the proper authorities.

And why you are tolerating any of this is a total mystery to me!

[John11111]

He needs a hard lesson on consequences im agreed with everyone else he obviously doesnt respect the rules of YOUR HOME so he need to go find his own place. Cut off all his money and take/ sell the car he can get his own or ride the bus.

[mnn727]

If there is any chance of child porn being on a computer you own, you need to consult an attorney. This includes "deleted" files. Deleted files are still on the hard drive.

Format the hard drive

In most states, if the 'adult' is less than 4 years older than the minor, it is not a legal issue if they are having sex. I would check the law in your state before going off the deep end about legalities.

[Vort]

Format the hard drive

Formatting the drive may not help, either. Many "quick format" options just get things ready to use the drive space without actually touching or formatting that space. The best way is to do something like the following:

• Empty the "Trash" or "Recycle Bin" to delete the files.
• Open all browsers you use and delete all caches.
• Overwrite every unused sector of your hard drive. This can be done in one of two ways: [A] Find or write up a little program that opens a file and then writes something to it. Keep writing until the program throws an out-of-disk-space error, then delete that file. Or, create a folder and copy a text file into it (something with actual contents, though it can be very small). Select the entire contents of the folder (which is currently one file), copy and paste to duplicate it. Again, select the entire contents of the folder (now two files), copy and paste to duplicate. Keep repeating this until the OS refuses to duplicate because it's out of file space. Then select and delete everything. You can write up a script to do this.

By creating a file or files that take up all of the hard disk space, you have overwritten every unused part of the drive. In most cases, this is probably enough to destroy the previous contents of the disk. If you have a program to do this, you probably want to run it three or four times with different random write values just to make sure that the information is randomized and obscured.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Vort

[Just_A_Guy]

Err . . . we're not talking about how to destroy evidence, are we?

Tread carefully.

[Vort]

Err . . . we're not talking about how to destroy evidence, are we?

Tread carefully.

Evidence of what? If it is illegal to have pornography on one's hard drive, then destroying any trace of said pornography is a good thing. Right?

[Dravin]

Evidence of what? If it is illegal to have pornography on one's hard drive, then destroying any trace of said pornography is a good thing. Right?

Evidence of the crime of possessing child pornography. If the state wanted to press charges for the possession of child pornography the files on the computer are evidence of that crime. They can no longer use the images as evidence of the crime because they've been destroyed. If you think of something physical, like flushing cocaine down a toilet* then it's easier to see the issue. If your son was a drug dealer and you found cocaine in his bedroom and you flushed it you've just destroyed evidence of drug possession. And if they think you did it to protect him they most certainly won't be happy.

*Sewage treatment plants aren't designed to remove pharmaceuticals, never flush drugs down the toilet.

[Smeagums]

delete

Edited May 20, 2013 by Smeagums

[Vort]

Evidence of the crime of possessing child pornography. If the state wanted to press charges for the possession of child pornography the files on the computer are evidence of that crime.

If the state files charges, THEN it's destruction of evidence. Until then, it's hard disk hygiene.

I am deeply disturbed by this whole idea. Consider the following ideas that seem to be in support of what you have written:

• It is a crime to have electronic copies of images of child pornography on your hard disk. That is, THE MERE FACT THAT SUCH FILES EXIST ON YOUR HARD DISK constitutes criminal activity.
• Viruses and other users are capable of putting images of child pornography on your hard disk without your knowledge. For that matter, if you buy a used computer or hard drive, it might already have such images stored on it.
• According to you and JAG, merely cleaning out and "bleaching" your hard drive might itself constitute destruction of "evidence", even if no charges have been filed.

Bottom line: You have exactly zero recourse to charges of possession of pornography. If those files exist on your hard disk -- for any reason -- you are powerless to remove them. And the mere fact of their existence means you're guilty until you can prove your innocence.

My hard disk is mine. It belongs to me. I can take it out and beat it. I can stomp on it. I can light it on fire (as long as I do not violate fire codes). I can write to it. I can erase it. I can do anything to it that I darn well please, because it belongs to me. The state cannot stop me from blanking my hard drive.

Even if someone or something else has loaded dirty images onto it.

Even if **I, myself,** accidentally loaded dirty images onto it.

(And, yes, even if I loaded those images on purpose and now regret it.)

Is this what we believe "repentance" to mean? You are not allowed to clean up your own filth?

I agree, destruction of evidence is a bad thing, if there are charges pending and you're seeking to avoid detection. But that is not at all what is being talked about.

If you have any reason to suspect vile images exist on your hard drive, you should bleach your hard drive as I have described above. I do not believe it is illegal -- if it is, then we live in a police state and deserve our captivity. And it is certainly not immoral, unless you are actively destroying evidence with charges pending. But in that case, it's almost certain that the authorities will already have confiscated your hard disk at the time of your arrest, so that's probably a moot point.

[Vort]

I have never actually investigated this topic; I did not even realize that "bleaching" was the accepted term for what I described, though it's the obvious term to describe it. But doing some quick Googling demonstrates that this is a well-known area of concern, with widely used solutions. For example:

Hard Disk Scrubber - Secure Delete Utility

I might try using this. It can't hurt, and given some of the filth that I have occasionally come across while innocently surfing, it might just help.

[Dravin]

If the state files charges, THEN it's destruction of evidence. Until then, it's hard disk hygiene.

Because state law varies I'm going to use Utah Code as a point of reference and I fully realize that other state's statutes may be written differently. Charges don't have to be filed before it is considered a problem, it is sufficient that:

(2) A person is guilty of tampering with evidence if, believing that an official proceeding or investigation is pending or about to be instituted, or with the intent to prevent an official proceeding or investigation or to prevent the production of any thing or item which reasonably would be anticipated to be evidence in the official proceeding or investigation, the person knowingly or intentionally:

Note I am not discussing what the law should be, or how any moral imperatives may supersede the law, just what the law is.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Dravin