Gospel will fill the world

[carlimac]

Last night my 9 yr. old daughter and I were looking at a map of where the church now exists and where it isn't. This morning I was listening to a General Conference talk about the prophesy that the gospel will fill the earth. So what kind of conditions or circumstances would there need to be for the gospel to go forward in Muslim countries? I see those as more challenging that communist countries.

[MarginOfError]

The kind of things happening in Egypt right now give me hope. of course, they seem to be on the "two steps forward one step back" plan, but they still seem to be facing the right direction.

[garryw]

I cant picture 19 year old American women walking the streets of Iran, trying to teach Christianity. Sounds like suicide.

It will take nothing less than a miracle.

[pam]

Countries like China would have to open up to proselytizing.

[NeuroTypical]

I can admire Christians who risk life and limb to smuggle bibles into closed countries. But the LDS church isn't like that. If we go in, it will be because we've been invited through the open front door, legally, honestly, and transparently.

[Dravin]

I should be noted the gospel can spread to a country without full time missionaries being there. If you have a sufficient number of ex-patriots who become converted and move back home you can establish a nucleus of believers where missionaries aren't allowed. I suppose we need a baseline of just what it means for the Gospel to fill the whole world, is a few thousand believers in each country enough to qualify? Just how literally are we to take the prophesy given the time and context it was said?

Moving on to the question of Middle Eastern Muslim countries, I'd think the first step would be religious freedom. If people can convert and return you can start establishing, theoretically, that nucleus of believers even if missionaries aren't there and even if the Church is not officially recognized and proselyting allowed. One thing to note too, is that the issue of conversion carrying the death penalty, unless I'm mistaken, is something that applies to Muslims not to Christians. If a few hundred Iranian Christian ex-patriots, note I'm not saying this is likely, converted and moved back you could have the gospel in Iran without a change in the legal situation (unless I'm missing something about the legal situation).

[Just_A_Guy]

Is physical presence of believers--or a functioning Church branch--a prerequisite; or is accessibility to the Church's online resources sufficient for the Gospel to be "in" a particular country?

[Wingnut]

Today we have congregations in 189 of the 224 nations and territories of the world.

It's a Miracle - general-conference

That's 84% of the world's nations!

[slamjet]

Satellites and radio covers the whole earth so it may "technically" already have come to pass.

[carlimac]

Satellites and radio covers the whole earth so it may "technically" already have come to pass.

I wonder how much that is monitored though and how much it's really allowed.

[carlimac]

I should be noted the gospel can spread to a country without full time missionaries being there. If you have a sufficient number of ex-patriots who become converted and move back home you can establish a nucleus of believers where missionaries aren't allowed. I suppose we need a baseline of just what it means for the Gospel to fill the whole world, is a few thousand believers in each country enough to qualify? Just how literally are we to take the prophesy given the time and context it was said?

Moving on to the question of Middle Eastern Muslim countries, I'd think the first step would be religious freedom. If people can convert and return you can start establishing, theoretically, that nucleus of believers even if missionaries aren't there and even if the Church is not officially recognized and proselyting allowed. One thing to note too, is that the issue of conversion carrying the death penalty, unless I'm mistaken, is something that applies to Muslims not to Christians. If a few hundred Iranian Christian ex-patriots, note I'm not saying this is likely, converted and moved back you could have the gospel in Iran without a change in the legal situation (unless I'm missing something about the legal situation).

Dubai has a stake now but neighboring countries are still killing, jailing and raping Christians. That doesn't sound like favorable circumstances for someone to be Christian out in the open there. If anything it seems as it Muslims are gaining more power.

I do believe our Heavenly Father is capable of bringing it about at the right time. I just wonder...how it will ever happen.

[Traveler]

Prior to my mission -1965 there were less than 2 million members. It seemed that communism would never open up to missionaries. Part of the Communist ideology stated that religion and belief in G-d was an opiate to the masses. I personally thought there would be a 3rd World War before the communist countries would allow missionaries. In 1989 the Berlin Wall came down and my nephew was called to be one of the first missionaries to go into East Germany for a few months before his mission ended. I was personally very surprised when it all happened - just one month before my nephew was sent there was no indication he would finish his mission there - none.

Another surprise to me personally - the numbers of young women serving missions. I never saw this coming. There has never been a time in the history of the world when missionaries are move involved, more ready. Obviously I am not a credible source because I have not realized how quickly the L-rd can change things. But I am wondering - if the opportunity to serve missions are coming to a climax. When 2 missionaries are killed in Jerusalem (while serving in the military???) -- that chance we all had to warn our friends and family will have passed.

The Traveler.

[carlimac]

Prior to my mission -1965 there were less than 2 million members. It seemed that communism would never open up to missionaries. Part of the Communist ideology stated that religion and belief in G-d was an opiate to the masses. I personally thought there would be a 3rd World War before the communist countries would allow missionaries. In 1989 the Berlin Wall came down and my nephew was called to be one of the first missionaries to go into East Germany for a few months before his mission ended. I was personally very surprised when it all happened - just one month before my nephew was sent there was no indication he would finish his mission there - none.

Another surprise to me personally - the numbers of young women serving missions. I never saw this coming. There has never been a time in the history of the world when missionaries are move involved, more ready. Obviously I am not a credible source because I have not realized how quickly the L-rd can change things. But I am wondering - if the opportunity to serve missions are coming to a climax. When 2 missionaries are killed in Jerusalem (while serving in the military???) -- that chance we all had to warn our friends and family will have passed.

The Traveler.

I just feel it's a very different situation with the Muslim faith being the law of the land as opposed to communism which is more of a political stance.

I'm not sure what you're talking about in reference to the missionaries in Jerusalem. (the part I bolded)

[Dravin]

I'm not sure what you're talking about in reference to the missionaries in Jerusalem. (the part I bolded)

Best guess? Revelation 11.

[LittleWyvern]

I can admire Christians who risk life and limb to smuggle bibles into closed countries. But the LDS church isn't like that. If we go in, it will be because we've been invited through the open front door, legally, honestly, and transparently.

Exactly this. If we're going to be invited, I think two things have to happen:

• More religious freedom. Like MoE said, events in Egypt should give us hope, but we still have a long way to go in countries like the UAE, Yemen, etc.
• Both Muslims and Mormons need to be much more comfortable with co-existing. There's a lot of work to do on both sides of this, but I think we're slowly but surely building bridges. The fact that there's an honest-to-goodness mosque in Salt Lake City and another in the works in Orem(!), and there are some congregations in Muslim countries (one of my fellow missionaries in my mission was from Jordan) makes me happy.

EDIT: For anybody who's curious where the Church has official presence, here's a map:

Dark blue means official presence and a temple, light blue means official presence but no temple, and gray means no official presence. This map dates from 2011, though, so it may be slightly out of date.

Edited August 7, 2013 by LittleWyvern

[slamjet]

I wonder how much that is monitored though and how much it's really allowed.

Yea, meh, just throwing it out there to try to sound intelligent I guess it didn't work.

[mrmarklin]

Daniel Ch 2

31 “Your Majesty, in your vision you saw standing before you a giant statue, bright and shining, and terrifying to look at. 32 Its head was made of the finest gold; its chest and arms were made of silver; its waist and hips of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, and its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 While you were looking at it, a great stone broke loose from a cliff without anyone touching it, struck the iron and clay feet of the statue, and shattered them. 35 At once the iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold crumbled and became like the dust on a threshing place in summer. The wind carried it all away, leaving not a trace. But the stone grew to be a mountain that covered the whole earth.

We must remember that not only the gospel will fill the whole earth, but the other kingdoms will be swept away.

We have made a lot of progress:

Since 1830, all the monarchies of Europe (the most powerful group of nations in the world) have fallen or are now constitutional. Communism is largely defunct, slavery has been abolished, at least officially, everywhere and Israel has a homeland.

The major populations in the world where there is no significant LDS presence are China, India and the muslim countries. This is over 1/2 the population of the world and they are largely ignorant of Christ. We need to be patient. To get as far as we have in a little less than 200 years we have fought the American Civil War (the biggest war in history up to that time), WWI and WWII among the biggies. I too was surprised by the fall of the Iron Curtain, never thinking to see it in my lifetime. But God works in various ways.

Economic liberalism, awesome communications, and a basic hunger for freedom are working in God's favor. Men are no longer ignorant of what goes on around their immediate area, and when they see how the West lives and the freedom we have, people want it. In China the USA is called the "golden mountain". There's a good reason for it.

[Adonais]

I believe that Freedom to Worship how you want is a very important principle to adhere to; I couldn't be an atheist if this were not so in the United States. That being said, it will be a very good day when we see Mormons and people of other faiths walking the streets in just about any country in the world, especially those governed right now by Islam. Are you guys sure the Great and Abominable Church spoken of in The Book of Mormon was the Catholic Church, and not the Muslim Faith?

[skippy740]

That's old news. It is not the Catholic Church. Bruce R. McConkie was just 'postulating' his own opinion in that first edition of "Mormon Doctrine".

[pam]

I believe that Freedom to Worship how you want is a very important principle to adhere to; I couldn't be an atheist if this were not so in the United States. That being said, it will be a very good day when we see Mormons and people of other faiths walking the streets in just about any country in the world, especially those governed right now by Islam. Are you guys sure the Great and Abominable Church spoken of in The Book of Mormon was the Catholic Church, and not the Muslim Faith?

As Skippy mentioned. We don't believe the Catholic church is the great and abominable church.

[Adonais]

I guess I should've mentioned that my last comment was meant to poke fun at the old belief, rather than sustain it. (Perhaps the ":P" at the end there is easy to overlook.) I remember back in my missionary days that even though some of the members considered Bruce's word to be binding, our Mission President was quick to overturn that notion by explaining how the "Great and Abominable Church" was simply a way to label the wicked men and their false dogmas.

[skippy740]

As a newer poster, we're still 'getting to know you'... and I thought that comparing it to the Muslim faith was not so good either as we don't bash any other faiths here. We can compare, contrast and make observations, but we don't tear down anyone else.

[Adonais]

Fair enough. I'm seeing where you draw the line here.

[ElectofGod]

My conjecture is,

The 13 month war which precedes the final apocalypse war, will cleans this country from all evil to build up Zion again if we will allow it. Than missionary work will be unrestrained and war will continue in other nations until as joseph said "they will continue to be chastened until they repent" through that great war. I think 2/3 of all men die. Perhaps even Zion (translated) members will be able to be that "nothing less than a miracle" to preach repentance in the worst streets. Missionary work will continue after the New Jerusalem is built, which is built after much war (civil war at the least) and chaos in America.

The way I read the news now a days I am afraid we will be in war anyday now. I sure hope I am wrong.