Current Adminstration

[Finrock]

Story, report, article, and revelation after revelation reveals just how corrupt the President of the United States and his administration are and just how corrupt most politicians in the United States are. We have revelation after revelation of a federal government that is blatantly trampling upon the rights of Americans. I cannot remember nor do I know of an administration that is more corrupt and more anti-liberty than this administration is.

Under this administration there is blatant corruption and disregard for liberty that is seen in some of the scariest government agencies, including, but not limited to:

1. NSA - Spying on Americans

2. State Department - Benghazi cover up

3. IRS - Suppression of free speech rights and the right to organize

4. Obamacare - A bundle of Satanic principles

5. Labor Department - Falsifying jobs report to help Obama win election

6. And many more...

Yet, despite all of these clear examples and indicators of a culture of corruption and anti-liberty amongst the president and his closest supporters, it seems that so many people just keep making excuses for him and keep insisting that the "King" does in fact have his clothes on. What happened to principle over party?

Not only that, I can't tell you how many times I keep hearing this excuse: "Well, the Republicans did it too!" I mean, who cares!? Wrong is wrong.

For someone like me it is exceedingly difficult to understand how people can be so blind or seemingly so apathetic to being lied to and manipulated by their president and leaders.

How can so many people not see that they are losing their country and their freedoms?

-Finrock

EDIT: Please excuse spelling and grammar.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Finrock

[prisonchaplain]

In all sincerity I would counsel that when we doubt or distrust our leaders, we should pray even harder for God to guide them. After all, if they are led by God, it can only bring blessing to us.

[applepansy]

We just did a FHE on the revelations regarding the last days. The end message was to remain faithful, obey the commandments because its only through our obedience to God that we are promised safety.

[Just_A_Guy]

How can so many people not see that they are losing their country and their freedoms?

And,

.

And, sex without consequences.

And, free money from other people once I find out that sex really does have consequences.

And, as long as it's only

, what's it to me? I got mine.

**By the way, only the first link is satire.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Just_A_Guy

[Wingnut]

Satanic principles? Let's not get carried away, now.

[beefche]

Satanic principles? Let's not get carried away, now.

Come on, Wingy. Getting carried away is what we do best.

[yjacket]

Finrock,

I agree. I think it is a multitude of factors and it has been going on for a very long time.

Not only that, I can't tell you how many times I keep hearing this excuse: "Well, the Republicans did it too!" I mean, who cares!? Wrong is wrong.

I agree that wrong is wrong, but it is important to address the fallacy of "my guy is right and your guy is wrong", red team vs. blue team mantra.

For example with ObamaCare, the framework (individual mandate, exchanges, etc) has it's roots in a Heritage Foundation document (I believe written in 1987?). I've looked up the document on the Heritage Foundation's website and read significant portions of it (it isn't too terrible long). The Heritage Foundation came up with this stuff, supposedly one of the most "conservative" groups, you know the group that the Sean Hannity's of the world parrot around as a great "conservative" group.

Ultimately it boils down to power, money, education, and an unwillingness to see. Those who are in power do not care about ideology, they care about how much power they wield and how much money they can get.

A great example out of Atlanta: The Braves are moving to Cobb County, an ultra conservative county from Fulton-ultra liberal. The Cobb County CEO and board offered $350 million for them to move. This was an extremely secret move that no one knew about until last week and is to be passed by the board next week. Only those involved in the actual negotiations knew about the deal, which was hatched last July. Well, come to find out a newly created LLC (created the same time frame that the deal was hatched) over the past 6 months has been buying up land all around the location of the new stadium. Things are sketchy, but there is enough smoke to determine that someone, or somebodies intimately familiar with the details shared that information (or kept it to themselves) and is trying to make out pretty big on the deal. And if it happens at the local level, you can bet the house that it happens at a national level; the players are just a little smarter to not get caught.

A great section out of "The Road to Serfdom" is titled "Why the Worst get on Top"; it would behoove anyone who seriously wants to understand what is going on to read that section. Government rewards those who are power hungry, corrupt, deceiptful. It happens in the private sector, but if that individual doesn't produce a good bottomline they are gone. With no bottom-line, no producing revenue-government becomes a wealth redistribution scheme.

A lack of education severly hampers any chance at changing course. I believe it goes back to public schools and federal mandates. Individuals care more about "Dancing with the Stars" than studying how their system of government works.

Finally, there is this pervasive belief that "it" can't happen here. America is the greatest, freest, most awesomest country that has ever existed and it is completly exempt from all that crud that goes on in other countries. We'll never have a monetary collapse, we'll never have a dictator, we'll never have . . . . Unfortunately, from my study of history it can and most likely will happen at some point. And when it does happen people will be begging for a "strong-man" to set things right.

A lot of very bad things have happened before in this country, MK-ULTRA, internment of Japanese, FBI running wild, wage and price controls, FDR stealing the public gold, etc. Yet each and every time, there is an explaination and a reason why it is "necessary".

Things will get worse and then they get better, but the real key to watch for is a monetary collapse. When the US dollar goes splat (could be 5 years, or could be 50 years), that is when things get real. We'll see what kind of a country we've got when that event occurs.

[Lakumi]

if Obamacare is Satanic... then what would you call the free health care Canada has?

[Quin]

I actually believe things are growing immeasurably better over these past many decades.

I look back to the Wild West and shudder. We make the war lords of Afghanistan look restrained.

I look at Tammany Hall and twitch. Corruption, bribery, murder, deceit as the respected way of political business

I look at the Civil Rights era and cringe. Beatings, rapes, lynchings, and blood, and fire.

Our modern presidents and politcs may still have issues.

But it seems like every generation things just keep getting a little better. Until what was acceptable even 50, much less 100, years ago is absolutely unacceptable in the modern world. I am actually looking forward to the next many decades with delight. Fear of the unknown, for sure. But there are so many great possibilities before us.

Q

[bytebear]

Pergatory.

[Vort]

I actually believe things are growing immeasurably better over these past many decades.

I look back to the Wild West and shudder. We make the war lords of Afghanistan look restrained.

I look at Tammany Hall and twitch. Corruption, bribery, murder, deceit as the respected way of political business

I look at the Civil Rights era and cringe. Beatings, rapes, lynchings, and blood, and fire.

Our modern presidents and politcs may still have issues.

But it seems like every generation things just keep getting a little better. Until what was acceptable even 50, much less 100, years ago is absolutely unacceptable in the modern world. I am actually looking forward to the next many decades with delight. Fear of the unknown, for sure. But there are so many great possibilities before us.

To some extent, I agree with this. We live in an era without compare for economic prosperity and personal freedoms. On the whole, things have probably never been better, and have often been very much worse.

My concern is seeing people openly call evil good and good evil. But this may not be a new thing at all; we may be no worse than any other historical group, maybe even better. But the open hypocrisy so widely portrayed and reveled in by those atop the cult of personality makes me yearn for something much better.

[bytebear]

I worry because the usual checks an balances are being remove. The press no longer investigates, but propagandizes. The minority party is losing power to challenge the majority party. And the courts are making decisions based on ideology, and not the rule of law. Obama is unique in that his historic position makes hm more insular to criticism, and he takes full advantage of that fact. But this has been going on for a long time, and both parties are guilty of taking power when they can.

[NightSG]

It's often interesting to see how many historic speeches apply so perfectly today. Reagan's "A Time for Choosing" just needs the numbers updated to be as accurate today as it was half a century ago, and this classic from Daniel Webster is equally valid after nearly two hundred years.

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of power, but they cannot justify it even if we were sure that they existed. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intention, real or pretended.

When bad intentions are boldly avowed the people will promptly take care of themselves. On the other hand they will always be asked why they should resist or question that exercise of power which is so fair in its object, so plausible and patriotic in appearance, and which has the public good alone confessedly in view. Human beings, we may be assured, will generally exercise power when they can get it and they will exercise it most undoubtedly in popular governments under pretences of public safety or high public interest. It may be very possible that good intentions do really sometimes exist when constitutional restraints are disregarded.

There are men in all ages who mean to exercise power usefully, but who mean to exercise it. They mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be kind masters, but they mean to be masters. They think there need be but little restraint upon themselves. Their notion of the public interest is apt to be quite closely connected with their own exercise of authority."

[yjacket]

if Obamacare is Satanic... then what would you call the free health care Canada has?

Nothing is free in this life . . . . somebody pays.

[Lakumi]

Nothing is free in this life . . . . somebody pays.

well yeah our taxes are higher, point is when I crushed my finger and went to the ER, I didn't pay any money at the time.

Yes my taxes are higher then someone in my position down in the US, but I don't mind because I like knowing if I hurt myself and need to go to the ER, money won't be on my mind

[yjacket]

I actually believe things are growing immeasurably better over these past many decades.

Yes and no, the Wild West really wasn't as bad as it is portrayed-too much Hollywood. I wouldn't go so far as comparing it to warlords in Afghanistan.

I think we confuse the massive amount of increase in the standard of living with things.

There has been a massive increase in civil liberties as it relates to other people, but a substantial decrease in personal liberties as it relates to property. But the increase in civil liberties is more related to forcing others to accept one's world-view rather than having others leave one alone.

On a world-wide stage, the modern age has brought us Hitler, Stalin, Pinnochet, Mao, etc. The world has never known so many autocratic governments at the same time.

There were a lot worse times in the US's history, the civil war and the great depression are two that were the worst for loss of liberty and trending towards an autocratic government.

Unfortunately, there is not a good understanding of principles by individuals in this country. People vote with the heart, from soundbites, from vague promises rather than on principles . . . . they generally don't even know what their principles are. If it sounds good, do it. With mass media, the populace can and is swayed to and fro and this is a very bad thing because there-in lies the danger.

Autocratic governments always have the soft support of the majority of the people.

[yjacket]

well yeah our taxes are higher, point is when I crushed my finger and went to the ER, I didn't pay any money at the time.

Yes my taxes are higher then someone in my position down in the US, but I don't mind because I like knowing if I hurt myself and need to go to the ER, money won't be on my mind

My point exactly you still paid and everyone else paid and costs overall end up being higher with higher incidents.

And because the cost isn't directly associated with the incident, individuals are less likely to be prudent in their actions, which will inevitable cause more incidents.

If you live 100 miles from an ER, accidents will still happen but you'll be a heck of a lot more careful, because one knows 100 miles is a long way to go.

[Lakumi]

My point exactly you still paid and everyone else paid and costs overall end up being higher with higher incidents.

And because the cost isn't directly associated with the incident, individuals are less likely to be prudent in their actions, which will inevitable cause more incidents.

If you live 100 miles from an ER, accidents will still happen but you'll be a heck of a lot more careful, because one knows 100 miles is a long way to go.

I have never heard of anything like that, and Canada has had free health care for decades, and it's not like we're the only country that does this. Find me something, anything that supports that weak argument and I might believe it.

I have no idea what a mile is (isn't it like double a KM) if it is, I don't think there is anywhere in this country that is so far from a hospital... maybe some remote places in the territories...

Mind you Canada has a little over 33 million people, easier to manage that methinks.

Our health care system, while not perfect, is something we as a country stand behind. We abhor the American model, and that is something that will keep me from ever considering the US as a place to live (amongst all the other things I don't like about your country).

[yjacket]

It is through logic, reasoning and understanding human nature. A mile is 1.6 km.

[Guest]

if Obamacare is Satanic... then what would you call the free health care Canada has?

Lakumi... Canada has government provided Health CARE. America has government mandated Health INSURANCE.

Know the difference my young padawan... :)

[Guest]

I wouldn't call the state of American Government evil. Far from it.

It is merely that you are experiencing a massive culture and identity shift. Personally, I don't like this new culture/identity. But there are others that do.

America lives in TERROR. Yes, you do. All the major laws that has been implemented lately are all based on FEAR.

You are too scared to fly an airplane that might be used to blow up a building... even though only 3,000+ people have ever gotten themselves blown up in the sky as opposed to the billions of people that are flying on airplanes. So you sacrifice your dignity for perceived safety.

You are too scared to get sick and not be able to pay for it. So you sacrificed individual accountability and responsibility for perceived security of insurance.

You are too scared to send your kids to school or the theater and get blown up... so you give up your right to arms for perceived security.

I'm not saying this is wrong. Personally, I'm seeing this as a shift to a culture of wooses. A shift from John Wayne and Clint Eastwood to... Justin Beiber. So, it's not surprising that you got a ginormous guy like Jonathan Martin flying the coop instead of standing up to the locker room bully. The US government can only make laws as long as the people allow it...

Edited November 22, 2013 by anatess

[Finrock]

Good Morning Wingnut. I hope you're doing well! :)

Satanic principles? Let's not get carried away, now.

That Obamacare is a bundle of satanic principles is barely hyperbole.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

Good Morning Quin. I hope you are well today! :)

I actually believe things are growing immeasurably better over these past many decades.

I look back to the Wild West and shudder. We make the war lords of Afghanistan look restrained.

I look at Tammany Hall and twitch. Corruption, bribery, murder, deceit as the respected way of political business

I look at the Civil Rights era and cringe. Beatings, rapes, lynchings, and blood, and fire.

Our modern presidents and politcs may still have issues.

But it seems like every generation things just keep getting a little better. Until what was acceptable even 50, much less 100, years ago is absolutely unacceptable in the modern world. I am actually looking forward to the next many decades with delight. Fear of the unknown, for sure. But there are so many great possibilities before us.

Q

We must perceive the world very differently. Having material wealth and being comfortable is not a valid measure of goodness or righteousness. Love of God and of all men is the measure of goodness. The false modern definition of "love" doesn't apply. Our society talks a lot about tolerance, love, etc. but it is all empty. The "tolerance" in our society is a tolerance of wickedness and the "love" in our society is a love of worldly things and pleasures.

As a nation God is far from our hearts. We have eliminated Him from virtually every aspect of public life all the while thinking that this is some sort of virtue. We pat ourselves in the back for being progressive and so much more sophisticated and enlightened than ages past. It is a delusion. It is literally madness.

-Finrock

[Quin]

Yes and no, the Wild West really wasn't as bad as it is portrayed-too much Hollywood. I wouldn't go so far as comparing it to warlords in Afghanistan./QUOTE]

(Yay! tangent time)

- Genocide

- Company Towns

- HOW many wars and border skirmishes? French/ Spanish/ Indian/ Union/ Union+Confederate

- Vigilante Justice / Mob Justice

- Orphan Trains/ Slavery / Indentured servitude up to the Civil War

- etc.

Heck. There's even church history of bounties/Mormon hunting/ driven out of Missouri, etc. Even though its a drop in the bucket of what was going on in the background, it's still pretty indicative of the era when one group of people can be marked for death/rape/pillage and the local govt. says "Sure! Great idea!" and joins in.

Movies are pretty tame. 1:1 gunfights are nuthin'.

LOL... Actually, most of the people I know who operate in Afghanistan CALL it the Wild West. I just always think they're stretching a smidge. I mean, the Soviets, the Taliban, US... We've all washed up against those mountains in waves. The Wild West out here had 3 nations at the same time washing over it, plus countless hoards and groups flooding in and fighting amongst themselves. Even stretching, it's probably the best parallel I could think of.

[Quin]

Good Morning Quin. I hope you are well today! :)

We must perceive the world very differently. Having material wealth and being comfortable is not a valid measure of goodness or righteousness. Love of God and of all men is the measure of goodness. The false modern definition of "love" doesn't apply. Our society talks a lot about tolerance, love, etc. but it is all empty. The "tolerance" in our society is a tolerance of wickedness and the "love" in our society is a love of worldly things and pleasures.

As a nation God is far from our hearts. We have eliminated Him from virtually every aspect of public life all the while thinking that this is some sort of virtue. We pat ourselves in the back for being progressive and so much more sophisticated and enlightened than ages past. It is a delusion. It is literally madness.

-Finrock

I agree. We probably have very different definitions.

But I disagree that God is far from our hearts, and eliminated from virtually all aspects of public life.

I have the right to live & love God as I choose.

To raise my children as I choose.

As does Every Other Citizen in this nation.

That's huge.

Mind bendingly huge.

The individual's CHOICE... Instead of the dictates of a government.

I've lived in the Middle East

I love Islam.

It's a beautiful religion.

State sponsored religion is bad enough.

The perversion of Islam which has permeated so many countries is even worse.

But it's natural (look at history) that its the perversions of religion which come to political power.

I'll take a nation that allows its citizens to make their own spiritual choices above a "godly nation" any second of any day.

Similarly... Living in that nation that allows us each our religious choices... I find God to be a HUGE part of public life. Mine. My friend's. my family. My neighbors.

I live between a catholic school & a Jewish school & several homeschoolers & homeschool Co-op & a public school & 2 private schools. No one can tell me religion is banned from schools. Government schools are not allowed to sanctify any religion over any other. Huzzah! That's a GREAT thing.

Unless you want your children banned from following their own religion, and forced to follow someone else's? Which I doubt. But I can guarantee that if this nation fell down the rabbit hole and got a state sponsored religion... It wouldn't be LDS.

I live within walking distance to a Synagogue, Cathedral, Mosque, and roughly 20 churches of various denominations. (Including my own).

I.

Love.

This.

This isn't wickedness.

This is freedom.

State Sponsored Agency.

Rock on.

Q