Bini Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I've been doing some reading on historical anomalies to outright bizarre phenomena around the world that has yet to be explained. It's fascinating to me. But what I wanted to bring up are the Ark of The Covenant and The Holy Grail. How real are they? I haven't done any extensive research on either but it sounds like there are existing historical documents of individuals encountering or witnessing them. Does the LDS church recognise the ATC and THG as having been real tangible things? I recall the ATC mentioned at church before, about the man that tried to stabilise it, but upon touching it he perished. My last question is if they exist, where are they now and will they ever resurface as important signs of the second coming? Any and all speculation or theories welcomed. But if there is an official statement from the Church on either, that would probably be of more interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 They would be with the golden plates, I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The Ark of the Covenant is locked up in a government storage facility. It was moved there for safe keeping after Indiana Jones rescued it from the Nazis.The Holy Grail remains under guard of one of three brothers. I won't describe the details, but, again, Indiana Jones can fill you in.Realistically, the Ark of the Covenant is probably lost in some tomb somewhere that we haven't dug up, or it was destroyed when the Kingdom of Judah fell.I have no formal knowledge of the matter, but I am not convinced that anything such as the Holy Grail every existed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The Ark of the Covenant is created/used and disappears in the Old Testament... While all the mythology around it might not be true it, the Ark is generally accepted as existing at some point (and might still exist)There is no real scriptural support for The Holy Grail that I am aware of... which leaves it in the realm of just mythology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 I know the Ethiopian Orthodox church claims to have the Ark and the Covenant and heavily guarded. No idea how true that is. Take it with a grain of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarginOfError Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Also, for what it's worth, my understanding is that the model of the Ark used in Raider of the Lost Ark is actually a fairly good representation of what the Ark may have looked like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Also, for what it's worth, my understanding is that the model of the Ark used in Raider of the Lost Ark is actually a fairly good representation of what the Ark may have looked like.I read the Old Testament two years ago (took me over a year). It was my second or maybe third time reading it, but my first time really reading it closely. I read very carefully about the ark of the covenant, and to my astonishment I realized that it was a portable throne! Jehovah was considered to sit among them! Shouldn't be surprising, since that is what God says to them, but I never understood the literal nature of that statement, or at least that it was treated literally by the Hebrews.When I made this realization, I did what any middle-aged 21st-century American man would do. I Googled "ark of the covenant throne". Sure enough, this is not a new idea.So this is where the movie got it wrong (IMO). The wings of the cherubim that meet over the top are along one edge so that they form a backrest of sorts, leaving the middle open for Jehovah to sit upon the mercy seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 Like this, perhaps:Other than that, I agree with MoE that the Raiders representation was otherwise quite faithful to the description in the OT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 To answer your question specifically, Bini: The ark of the covenant was a real, physical thing, built explicitly on instruction from God. The Hebrews carried it around with them as they wandered in Sinai, and it was placed in the Holy of Holies (innermost court) in Solomon's Temple. No one knows where it is now, but most assume it was destroyed long ago, perhaps melted down for its gold content.The so-called "holy grail" is an invention of early Christianity. At the Last Supper, Jesus gave his apostles bread and wine; we recognize this as a sacrament of sorts. It is assumed that Jesus must have used some sort of cup, since he probably didn't scoop wine out with his hands to drink it or just pour it from the wineskin directly down his throat. This cup, then, is what the Christians of the centuries after Christ started calling "the holy grail".In the early Christian Church, especially after the widespread apostasy that the apostles fought valiantly against while they lived, actual physical objects were considered tangible proof of Jesus' divinity, and were held to have special magical powers that would cure you of diseased and such things. (Note in the Indiana Jones version that the water poured out of the "holy grail" was sufficient to heal a gunshot wound.) There are all sorts of such supposed magical "holy objects": Pieces of "the true cross", bone fragments said to be from various apostles, the shroud that covered Christ after his crucifixion, and so forth. You could spend years (or decades) touring Italy just to see all the "holy objects" found in cathedrals all over the place, from large cities to very small towns.So the "holy grail" as such is largely a figment of early (apostate) Christian imagination, while the ark of the covenant was a very real thing. Neither was or is magical, and in my opinion neither likely exists today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The Ark of the Covenant is locked up in a government storage facility. It was moved there for safe keeping after Indiana Jones rescued it from the Nazis.The Holy Grail remains under guard of one of three brothers. I won't describe the details, but, again, Indiana Jones can fill you in.Realistically, the Ark of the Covenant is probably lost in some tomb somewhere that we haven't dug up, or it was destroyed when the Kingdom of Judah fell.I have no formal knowledge of the matter, but I am not convinced that anything such as the Holy Grail every existed.I always thought Indiana Jones was more documentary than fiction...until Crystal Skull. That's when I realized I'd been duped.Heheh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 The ark of the covenant was a symbolic artifact - first of the ancient Tabernacle constructed by Moses which was in essence a portable temple. Later when Solomon built the temple the ark of the covenant was permanently dedicated to that temple. Part of the symbolism of the Ark of the Covenant is what is called the "mercy seat" - likely depicting the final judgment of man. Also present are two Cherubim - one at the right hand of G-d and the other at the left hand. (It is from this symbolism that Satan has come to be know as the "left hand" or "anointed" - also meaning messiah of G-d). It is of interest to note that in the garden of Eden epoch that it is the Cherubim that are given "fire" and "sword" to "keep" the way to the tree of life.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2014 Report Share Posted January 21, 2014 So the "holy grail" as such is largely a figment of early (apostate) Christian imagination, while the ark of the covenant was a very real thing. Neither was or is magical, and in my opinion neither likely exists today.No no no. The Holy Grail is Mary Magdalene and she rests beneath the glass pyramid of the Louvre in France. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmarklin Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) If one believes in the Bible, the Ark certainly existed. Nobody knows where it is or if it even exists anymore. I think it may exist, because these types of things tend to be carefully preserved due to value and religious significance.Looted art is still being recovered from WW2 that was thought lost. Recently a very valuable drawing that was stolen many years ago turned up at a flea market.The Grail was the first sacrament cup, and was probably lost because the Apostles were unlikely to put any great significance to what was certainly an ordinary household object. May even have belonged to the owner of the room where they ate the Last Supper. It's likely lost IMHO.In the Indiana Jones movie, the cup was portrayed as being made of metal. How many of us have drink from a metal cup?? Likely it was pottery of some sort an is now in the "trash bin" of history. Edited January 22, 2014 by mrmarklin Additional Information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think it may exist, because these types of things tend to be carefully preserved due to value and religious significance.Not that I'm disagreeing, but we do have the orig. Nauvoo temple tornado as a contrasting point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakumi Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think it would be safe to say, that the ark is being examined by top men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I've spent two days reading this stuff and it's so fascinating. I remember a thread a while back on the Shroud of Turin but don't remember what the general conclusion was here on the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think it would be safe to say, that the ark is being examined by top men.Who?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted January 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 I know the Ethiopian Orthodox church claims to have the Ark and the Covenant and heavily guarded. No idea how true that is. Take it with a grain of salt. Taking with a grain of salt but if the ATC has been located and is heavily guarded by x, I'm just wondering how x gets the rights of it, when it's like a major piece of religious artefact? I'm sure there are many religious organisations out there that would want their hands on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Who?!Top. Men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Who?!"Top" men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Something has truly been lost when we seek a sacred symbol more than what it was intended to symbolize.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippy740 Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 Indeed. We don't need the 'ark of the covenant' when we have the scriptures. We don't need 'the Holy Grail' when we have the sacrament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 But I want to see the golden plates, dagnabit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Folk Prophet Posted January 22, 2014 Report Share Posted January 22, 2014 But I want to see the golden plates, dagnabit!That should TOTALLY be the next MacGuffin.INDIANA JONES AND THE GOLDEN PLATESI would so watch that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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