The Gay Appreciation Thread

[Suzie]

No, they don't claim to officially represent the church. .

Thanks. That's what I thought.

[Bini]

No, they don't claim to officially represent the church.

I think the point is that anyone or any group that stands up and explicitly says "I'm a Mormon and we __________" will certainly represent the church in some way and to some people. It comes down to what you mean by represent I guess.

It's a fine line.

I know that for some LDS, working at Starbucks or a venue that sells liquor, poorly represents the Church. I can only speak for myself and can say that I'm able to separate the two. I also wanted to add, I don't think there's anything wrong with stating: "I'm Mormon and I love my gay brothers and sisters." I think it's important for people to know that Mormons love their gay brothers and sisters just like their heterosexual brothers and sisters - we see them equally as human beings.

[bay2boy]

No, they don't claim to officially represent the church.

I think the point is that anyone or any group that stands up and explicitly says "I'm a Mormon and we __________" will certainly represent the church in some way and to some people. It comes down to what you mean by represent I guess.

Yes that's what I mean. I don't mean they are officially representing the church but when you hold up a large banner that says "Mormons building bridges" or something of the like, you are representing your faith in some fashion. Why do you need to label yourself as a Mormon? Why can't you just walk in the parade and offer your support as a human. The "Mormon Church" does not support that lifestyle. Period. In a sense, its almost a slap in the face of the LGBT community marching in their pride parade. You are saying, "We love you. We want you to stop doing what you're doing so you can return to the fold because we know that will make you happy. In the meantime, to show our love, we're going to march in your PRIDE parade, key word "Pride". We have no pride in their lifestyle or at least any member of the church should not express pride in that lifestyle. There are other ways of showing you love them.

We love porn stars too but we're not going to go to the adult convention in Vegas and hold up banners saying "Mormons Building Bridges".

Edited January 28, 2014 by bay2boy

[Guest]

We love porn stars too but we're not going to go to the adult convention in Vegas and hold up banners saying "Mormons Building Bridges".

It's pretty simple. All porn stars are engaging in the sin of pornography - hence all are engaged in the sin of pornography. Not all homosexuals are engaging in same-gender sexual relationships - hence, not all homosexuals are engaged in the sin.

If nothing else, we need to be clearer that we believe that a homosexual is not automatically a fornicator.

[Jamie123]

While heteroxexual women like, seek out the company of and generally appreciate gay men (Anatess is a case in point) heterosexual men are suspicious of them (points at Vort). The "gay best friend" phenomenon is well known nowadays (especally after it became the basis of the sitcom Will and Grace) but I first noticed it at least 20 years ago. I've seen many, many examples of it amongst people I know.

P.S. Yes Vort - I know you can point to scriptures which say that homosexual activity is a sin. And maybe it is. But I still thing there's something in the heterosexual male psyche which is slightly fearful of gays, quite apart from any scriptural considerations.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Jamie123

[Vort]

While heteroxexual women like, seek out the company of and generally appreciate gay men (Anatess is a case in point) heterosexual men are suspicious of them (points at Vort). The "gay best friend" phenomenon is well known nowadays (especally after it became the basis of the sitcom Will and Grace) but I first noticed it at least 20 years ago. I've seen many, many examples of it amongst people I know.

P.S. Yes Vort - I know you can point to scriptures which say that homosexual activity is a sin. And maybe it is. But I still thing there's something in the heterosexual male psyche which is slightly fearful of gays, quite apart from any scriptural considerations.

Jamie, as much as I enjoy your comments in general, you are mistaken here. What I have written does not stem from fear. It stems from an understanding of right and wrong and a desire not to confuse the two.

[Guest]

While heteroxexual women like, seek out the company of and generally appreciate gay men (Anatess is a case in point).

I wouldn't call it "seek out". It's more like - "do not try to avoid".

[Vort]

It's pretty simple. All porn stars are engaging in the sin of pornography - hence all are engaged in the sin of pornography. Not all homosexuals are engaging in same-gender sexual relationships - hence, not all homosexuals are engaged in the sin.

If nothing else, we need to be clearer that we believe that a homosexual is not automatically a fornicator.

Anatess, this is utterly beside the point. Not once (that I remember) have you pointed out some homosexual friend from the past and said, "He has never lived the homosexual lifestyle, but hey, we all knew he was gay, and he was a great guy." Your examples, and those of others, have been of PRACTICING homosexuals. That's how you KNEW they were gay. So your "Gay Appreciation Thread" has had nothing at all to do with those with SSA who nevertheless maintained their sexual integrity and lived the law of chastity.

Why not? Well, for one thing, we probably wouldn't call them "gay" if they shunned homosexual relations and lived the law of chastity. So your distinctions are superfluous.

[Guest]

Anatess, this is utterly beside the point. Not once (that I remember) have you pointed out some homosexual friend from the past and said, "He has never lived the homosexual lifestyle, but hey, we all knew he was gay, and he was a great guy." Your examples, and those of others, have been of PRACTICING homosexuals. That's how you KNEW they were gay. So your "Gay Appreciation Thread" has had nothing at all to do with those with SSA who nevertheless maintained their sexual integrity and lived the law of chastity.

Why not? Well, for one thing, we probably wouldn't call them "gay" if they shunned homosexual relations and lived the law of chastity. So your distinctions are superfluous.

And this is why I shouldn't go back to this thread... because it just makes me mad.

In the Philippines, sex talk is taboo. This is a country where artificial birth control products are treated like porn magazines. So when somebody says, Michael Jackson invited children into his home for bedtime stories we don't conclude, "Having sex!", we say, "How cool is that!". Just like when somebody says, "I'm gay", people don't automatically conclude, "Having sex!". You don't become a contestant on Miss Gay because you had homo-sex. You become a contestant on Miss Gay because you are gay - you are a man who like to be a woman - you like to walk/talk/dress up like a woman and yes, get attracted to men. Having any sex gets you disqualified from the contest just like having sex gets you disqualified from the regular Miss <insert city here> contest.

I mentioned SO MANY gay people who are not practicing homosexuals - the Miss Gay competitors, the gay priests and nuns in school...

But no.... Vort can't seem to get it into his head that you don't have to have sex to know you're gay just like you don't have to have sex to know you're not.

But yes, I started this thread without needing to separate the wheat from the tares. I see a group of people singled out, I went to balance it. End of story.

And... about that comparison of homosexuals with pedophiles... that's an explosive comparison. A more balanced comparison is hetero-couples living together as husband and wife without being married. Or hetero people breaking the LOC which - if you notice - are all over the Advice forum. There are a GAZILLION of those and they don't ever get gay threaded everywhere on lds.net.

Okay, I'm done with this thread.

Edited January 28, 2014 by anatess

[Traveler]

Anatess, this is utterly beside the point. Not once (that I remember) have you pointed out some homosexual friend from the past and said, "He has never lived the homosexual lifestyle, but hey, we all knew he was gay, and he was a great guy." Your examples, and those of others, have been of PRACTICING homosexuals. That's how you KNEW they were gay. So your "Gay Appreciation Thread" has had nothing at all to do with those with SSA who nevertheless maintained their sexual integrity and lived the law of chastity.

Why not? Well, for one thing, we probably wouldn't call them "gay" if they shunned homosexual relations and lived the law of chastity. So your distinctions are superfluous.

I will second your point Vort. And also say I have many friends that are gay and many friends with other struggles. There is good in every person if we look for it as well as evil if we wish to highlight that. However, I also see no more reason to support or enable gay sex anymore than supporting or enabling adultery or child abuse (teenage sexuality which is a popular theme in entertainment for teens - aka "Grease").

The Traveler

[Just_A_Guy]

While we are discussing pedophiles, perhaps the suicide note of a congressional aide who committed suicide last week will be of interest.

Now, I don't know what Vort or anyone else is thinking when they use the term "pedophilia" in discussions about homosexuality. But this is what I think of--this guy, and people like him who I've worked with, who are otherwise "regular people" are repulsed and horrified with themselves and spend a lifetime trying to get their urges under control, with a minimum of outside sympathy or support.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[Vort]

And this is why I shouldn't go back to this thread... because it just makes me mad.

It's not your fault you're mad. It's the thread's. Or mine.

You become a contestant on Miss Gay because you are gay - you are a man who like to be a woman - you like to walk/talk/dress up like a woman

That is not what "gay" means.

But no.... Vort can't seem to get it into his head that you don't have to have sex to know you're gay just like you don't have to have sex to know you're not.

Translation: Vort doesn't agree with me, the big meanie!

And... about that comparison of homosexuals with pedophiles... that's an explosive comparison. A more balanced comparison is hetero-couples living together as husband and wife without being married. Or hetero people breaking the LOC which - if you notice - are all over the Advice forum. There are a GAZILLION of those and they don't ever get gay threaded everywhere on lds.net.

Where is your "Fornicators' Appreciation Thread"? Given the condemnation heaped upon fornicators by the forum, I would have thought you would jump at the chance to show how open and tolerant we are toward those who sin in that manner.

[Vort]

While we are discussing pedophiles, perhaps the suicide note of a congressional aide who committed suicide last week will be of interest.

Now, I don't know what Vort or anyone else is thinking when they use the term "pedophilia" in discussions about homosexuality. But this is what I think of--this guy, and people like him who I've worked with, who are otherwise "regular people" are repulsed and horrified with themselves and spend a lifetime trying to get their urges under control, with a minimum of outside sympathy or support.

Actually, this is almost exactly what I had in mind. It irritates me to think that the same people who make such a great show of their "tolerance" toward those who suffer from (or even embrace) the sexual deviancy of homosexuality will simultaneously show their horror and utter disgust toward those who suffer from the sexual deviancy of pedophilia. That such hypocrisy exists within the Church makes me sick to my stomach.

[Guest]

That is not what "gay" means.

In what planet?

Oh yeah, you conveniently end the sentence before the comma as you quote it...

Edited January 28, 2014 by anatess

[Just_A_Guy]

In what planet?

As I understand the usage in American English, a male who dresses up like a female is not necessarily "gay". He may be transsexual or something similar; while still being attracted to women.

[Guest]

As I understand the usage in American English, a male who dresses up like a female is not necessarily "gay". He may be transsexual or something similar; while still being attracted to women.

Like I said, conveniently ended the quote before the comma.

But when you sign up as a contestant for Miss Gay, you're going to sign up because YOU'RE GAY... Uh, DUH!

But gay people who don't walk/talk/dress up like women don't sign up for those. Because... you have to wear evening gown!

Edited January 28, 2014 by anatess

[The Folk Prophet]

While we are discussing pedophiles, perhaps the suicide note of a congressional aide who committed suicide last week will be of interest.

Now, I don't know what Vort or anyone else is thinking when they use the term "pedophilia" in discussions about homosexuality. But this is what I think of--this guy, and people like him who I've worked with, who are otherwise "regular people" are repulsed and horrified with themselves and spend a lifetime trying to get their urges under control, with a minimum of outside sympathy or support.

This was heartbreaking to read.

[pam]

This thread can just continue to go round and round as all threads having to do with this subject do.

I think it's time to close.