Not wanting kids

[Guest]

This isn't unusual in "the world", but I don't hear of it happening a lot in the Church.

Someone I know is pushing 30, and hasn't had much luck finding a good companion. Now this person has finally met someone who is great- kind, independent, capable, responsible, fun, temple worthy, etc. The only thing is, she/he does not want children.

So. . . as an LDS person who has had a rough go of finding someone, what would you do in that situation?

[Guest]

This isn't unusual in "the world", but I don't hear of it happening a lot in the Church.

Someone I know is pushing 30, and hasn't had much luck finding a good companion. Now this person has finally met someone who is great- kind, independent, capable, responsible, fun, temple worthy, etc. The only thing is, she/he does not want children.

So. . . as an LDS person who has had a rough go of finding someone, what would you do in that situation?

If kids are important to that person, then throw that fish back in the ocean. If that person is fine with not having kids, then there's a keeper.

Pretty simple, really.

[AngelMarvel]

I think it would depend on how determined he/she is about having a child.

I am thinking about my son...who cannot have children, married a woman who already had one child, but wanted another child. (She knew he couldn't have children) The desire for her was so strong of being pregnant, that she ended up divorcing him and marrying someone else and became pregnant right away.

So... I would carefully think about the persons desire before I would jump into the relationship. In my son's situation... she knew he couldn't have children and was okay with it. But, as time went along and her other child started getting a little older, she longed so much for a baby (not adopted, surrogate, etc) and there was nothing he could do to change her mind.

[Guest]

Not so simple, really. Not when you've been lonely for so long, and had your heart broken, then finally find someone who loves you and you love back. . . and then to learn this little factoid after already falling in love. Not really simple at all, I'd say.

[AngelMarvel]

Not so simple, really. Not when you've been lonely for so long, and had your heart broken, then finally find someone who loves you and you love back. . . and then to learn this little factoid after already falling in love. Not really simple at all, I'd say.

I totally agree that it wouldn't be simple to just throw away a relationship...but, also feel that if the other person is 100% set on NOT wanting children, then that would be a big stepping stone in the way. Not that it maybe couldn't be worked out... but...

[estradling75]

That would depend... I would hope they would know by now what is a deal breaker for them.

We have had many come on this forum that state that something about their spouse totally wrecking their marriage. And this 'something' was totally known before hand.

Your friend wants a 'good' marriage (we all do). So your friend needs to figure out if their definition of a good marriage can be a marriage without kids? If it is well and truly yes then they should push on. If it is well and truly no then no matter how much they are in love with person your friend needs to understand they are not a 'good' marriage prospect and pull away.

[Guest]

On a personal level it really baffles me, as a fellow covenanted LDS person. We know that the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth is still in force, so it's not a decision I understand.

[Guest]

Not so simple, really. Not when you've been lonely for so long, and had your heart broken, then finally find someone who loves you and you love back. . . and then to learn this little factoid after already falling in love. Not really simple at all, I'd say.

It really is simple.

The hard part is not whether to stay in the relationship or not. That is really simple.

The hard part is to decide how important having a child is. Once that decision is made, the rest is simple.

A lifetime of being alone is much more preferable than a lifetime of misery. One can be alone and not lonely. But marrying somebody knowing the person does not fill a basic necessity can lead you to loneliness - even when you're married.

[beefche]

As someone who married after a biological age had passed that allowed me to have children, I would say there is a difference between unable to have children and doesn't want children.

While Dravin and I dated, this was the topic of some of our discussions. For me, the fact that we would likely not have children was completely different than if Dravin had said that he didn't WANT children. That would have been a deal breaker for me. Dravin had to decide for himself if the fact I was willing but likely unable to have children would be a deal breaker for him.

I know there are some people in this world who just won't make good parents while in this mortal world. There are various reasons for that, but they do exist. So, I can sort of understand why they wouldn't want children. But, I would hope as a LDS person who has a testimony, that reality would be tempered with the understanding that desires and abilities will be different in the next life.

[applepansy]

Not so simple, really. Not when you've been lonely for so long, and had your heart broken, then finally find someone who loves you and you love back. . . and then to learn this little factoid after already falling in love. Not really simple at all, I'd say.

I agree. This is not simple when love is involved.

She/He needs to consider two things. 1) We have been commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. Its part of the sealing ceremony. 2) Obedience to Heavenly Father and Faith that He knows the person and their heart needs to play a role.

This is a test. As everything in this life is. The person gets to decide.

Another thought I have is. What is the person who doesn't want children willing to do to prevent pregnancy? Anything short of surgery isn't 100% effective birth control. What will this person do if pregnancy occurs despite other birth control methods. (There are cases of pregnancy after vasectomy and tubal ligation). Something to think about.... because Heavenly Father sends babies when he wants them to come regardless of what we do or don't do to prevent it.

[Guest]

Beefche, great, great, great post.

[The Folk Prophet]

The desire to have no kids is indicative, IMO, of deeper issues that would be highly concerning to me. And, frankly, to blow off any commandment based on the natural man is problematic. There may be "good" reasons that he/she does not want kids. If they are, indeed, "good", then consideration is in order. If they are, as I suspect, purely based in selfishness, I would run in the other direction as far as marriage goes. Intentionally marrying someone who you know is motivated by selfish desires is asking for trouble.

[Lakumi]

On a personal level it really baffles me, as a fellow covenanted LDS person. We know that the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth is still in force, so it's not a decision I understand.

Well, though I am not LDS I can give you my opinion about the whole not wanting children, at least from my point of view and a few things I have heard from friends...

The idea of fatherhood to me, scares me more then anything. I feel I could never measure up and be a good parent, being absent minded and function really in my own world.

I have a cat, and have reminders up when to feed her, and when to clean the litter, other then that, the cat is very self reliant.

A child I would have to be involved with 100%, something I can barely do for myself.

Some people just shouldn't have children, and some know that but coming out and saying "yeah I am a broken nut" isn't pleasant sounding.

And some just don't like children, its not like a pet you can give away should it not work out, its a huge decision some people just can't do.

And I think it is better for someone to realize that, then horribly struggle through parenting, something they didn't want, because they felt they had to... Wouldn't make for a good parent-child relationship methinks.

[skippy740]

I am not dating anyone right now. However, that doesn't mean that I don't think about what "could happen" in the future.

Right now, I already have 3 kids with their mother (my ex-wife). Having more kids is just not on the radar for me right now. Again, I'm not dating anyone, so these thoughts aren't affecting any real relationships currently.

I would not be opposed to dating someone who already has children... but for more children, right now... is just not in my plans at the moment.

If my future spouse has no children of her own, and wants them... then I probably would support her in fulfilling her desires... but I don't know if I would marry such a person.

Lots to think about.

[beefche]

The desire to have no kids is indicative, IMO, of deeper issues that would be highly concerning to me. And, frankly, to blow off any commandment based on the natural man is problematic. There may be "good" reasons that he/she does not want kids. If they are, indeed, "good", then consideration is in order. If they are, as I suspect, purely based in selfishness, I would run in the other direction as far as marriage goes. Intentionally marrying someone who you know is motivated by selfish desires is asking for trouble.

I agree that not wanting kids is indicative of deeper issues. For example, I know people who have some psychological issues that make them such that they know they would not do well having children. I applaud them for recognizing this and not bringing a child into that situation. But you can imagine the issues and how that would affect a spouse. So, yes, having such issues means you have to consider if this is something you can deal with as a spouse.

[beefche]

I also wanted to add something about being in love with someone and then trying to decide on deal breakers.

There's no question that once you love someone, making the decision to break things off is a difficult action. But, love does NOT conquer all. Love does not negate real issues that could damage a relationship or even a person.

So, while being in love can blind you to things and make things more difficult to decide, it shouldn't be a pass to avoid making real decisions--even if those decisions are difficult.

This man/woman who loves the person who doesn't want to have kids needs to look deep and decide that if this is going to make their marriage/relationship impossible, then it is much, MUCH easier to break it off now than it is to break it off after a few years of marriage.

I've been alone for the majority of my adult life. Living without a spouse/significant other for more than 20 years can be a lonely, depressing place. But, you can be happy as a single person in this church. I made my determination on the type of man to marry and the place to marry and when that didn't happen in the time frame that "normal" people marry, I made the best of my life. And I was happy. Seeing some of my friends--even ones married in the temple--and go through some of the stuff they went through made me appreciate my goals and standards. You can't avoid all negatives in a marriage--but you should be aware of the ones that you cannot abide and stick to your standards.

BTW, now that I am married to a man worth waiting for, I can say that I am even more appreciative that I didn't give up my standards. As happy as I was as a single member of this church, being married has given me a deeper sense of happiness and joy. It was worth all those years of loneliness to have such a good marriage.

Edited March 7, 2014 by beefche

[notquiteperfect]

This isn't unusual in "the world", but I don't hear of it happening a lot in the Church.

Someone I know is pushing 30, and hasn't had much luck finding a good companion. Now this person has finally met someone who is great- kind, independent, capable, responsible, fun, temple worthy, etc. The only thing is, she/he does not want children.

So. . . as an LDS person who has had a rough go of finding someone, what would you do in that situation?

I think the person needs to find out why they don't want kids. I also think there's room to work with it. Years ago, my therapist told me her husband didn't want kids but she did and so she told him he wouldn't have to do a thing (she changed *every* diaper, was always the one to get up in the night, etc). He loves his kids and can't imagine life without them but there had to be an understanding of how much would be expected. They have three.

[Bini]

Not so simple, really. Not when you've been lonely for so long, and had your heart broken, then finally find someone who loves you and you love back. . . and then to learn this little factoid after already falling in love. Not really simple at all, I'd say.

It is simple, actually, but often times we complicate things.

I agree with Anatess, and I don't see this as a "small factoid", rather, it's a pretty big red flag if this person WANTS children and their bf/gf does not. You either accept that fact - or you don't.

[The Folk Prophet]

my therapist told me her husband didn't want kids but she did and so she told him he wouldn't have to do a thing (she changed *every* diaper, was always the one to get up in the night, etc).

What a lucky girl.

Anyhow, sure, it may work for now (depends on what one considers a "working" marriage). But I question this attitude in anyone. A refusal to sacrifice but a willingness to accept the reward. I'll take the good but all the bad goes to my wife? This is problematic and will undoubtedly lead to major problems unless this guy grows up.

[Roseslipper]

To each their own!!!!

p.s. I thought neither of them wanted children...If thats the case then thats it. But they need to think even though they are both trying to not have children, it still can happen if their both healthly and have a sexual realtonship. It does happen they need to talk about this.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Roseslipper
added the ps

[The Folk Prophet]

To each their own!!!!

A nice summary of agency.

[Backroads]

Of course, this girl could marry someone else who does support her in her desire for children and they could trytrytry and never get pregnant.

But the argument of "what if you can't have children anyway" does not apply here. What Ifs are useless.

I agree it's a tough decision, but I also agree it's a simple decision. She shouldn't be marrying him and then wind up feeling bitter about the lack of children. There's been dozens of similar "Dear Abby" letters where a spouse marries hoping for an eventual change of heart and mind on the children issue. It never seems to work out.

I also don't get the vast majority of people who don't want kids.

[classylady]

I think it's important to find out the reason why the person does not want children. If it's for selfish reasons (children are too much work, too expensive, will ruin my body, I won't be able to travel, etc.), then that's a definite "red flag". If they are selfish in this area, they are most likely selfish in other areas.

I have a niece that married a man who did not want children because of a serious medical condition that he has, and does not want it passed on to children. She agreed with him. They've been married for over 10 years now, and they are sticking to that decision. They have opted not to adopt. I know my niece would have enjoyed having children.

It's also important to talk to a prospective spouse about the number of children you want prior to getting married. I dated a man who didn't want more than two. He was adamant about it. I wanted more than two. I was adamant about that. We broke off our relationship. Neither one of us was willing to compromise on it.

[Suzie]

This isn't unusual in "the world", but I don't hear of it happening a lot in the Church.

Someone I know is pushing 30, and hasn't had much luck finding a good companion. Now this person has finally met someone who is great- kind, independent, capable, responsible, fun, temple worthy, etc. The only thing is, she/he does not want children.

So. . . as an LDS person who has had a rough go of finding someone, what would you do in that situation?

Besides analyzing why he doesn't want children, I would also analyze whether or not (if I decide to marry him) I would be able to cope with my reality and not end up resenting him in the end because he doesn't want children. It will not be fair to him because he made his wishes know clearly beforehand.

By the way, I have a problem when wives or husbands try to force their partners to have more children when the other person doesn't want any more. It creates a whole bunch of issues.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Suzie

[Lakumi]

Of course, this girl could marry someone else who does support her in her desire for children and they could trytrytry and never get pregnant.

But the argument of "what if you can't have children anyway" does not apply here. What Ifs are useless.

I agree it's a tough decision, but I also agree it's a simple decision. She shouldn't be marrying him and then wind up feeling bitter about the lack of children. There's been dozens of similar "Dear Abby" letters where a spouse marries hoping for an eventual change of heart and mind on the children issue. It never seems to work out.

I also don't get the vast majority of people who don't want kids.

I've heard a lot of reasons, costs, not wanting a change in lifestyle, not liking children, feeling you'd be bad at it...

I never considered it selfish not to want to have children, its a life altering decision and I've met a lot of people treat it like it was like getting a pet.

Why is it selfish of me, or anyone, for wanting to live their life? Why should I devote my life to someone else just because I can.

It feels like no matter what I do, I am always somehow lesser and failing or selfish.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Lakumi