LDS member is trying to rip me off

[DellaMarie]

Hello, 

 

 A person from my past resurfaced in 2010 after I had a near fatal car wreck and a mutual friend of ours passed away that same year . He was living in Seattle at the time and still continues to go back monthly for doctors visit, or so he says. Anyway, our mutual friend passed away in December, 2010, and this person, whom I haven't seen since 1988 starts calling me, acting like we're dear old friends, oh didn't we have such a good time in our youth, gee I've missed you , blah blah blah. Meanwhile, I'm in a wheelchair for 8 months already and my doctors don't know if I will ever be able to walk again. So this person INSISTS he has to travel back home to take me to our friend's funeral/memorial , but there's one hitch.... he needs 3,000.00 to do it. Well, I was in a wheelchair, recovering from a traumatic brain injury, fractured skull, half my ribs broken, and a crushed leg. I started a legal action against the company that caused the injuries, but i had spent all my savings taking care of the home, my pets, and my mom's mortgage, and without going back to work , understandably, all my savings were depleted.  Literally, THE DAY BEFORE this person asked me for this money  I had received a presettlement loan towards my bills, so on Christmas Eve, I wire transferred him 3,000.00 . This money , and I told him CLEARLY was to pay for his airfare, hotel while here, the rental car to come get me, the gas and our food. Well, on December 30, 2010, he calls me and says he ran into a jam and had to pay a vet bill and some back rent, would I send him another 1000.00 . Being a kind hearted person who just really wanted to pay my respects to my lost friend ad his family , I reluctantly agreed and on New Year's Eve sent him another 1000.00, for a total of 4,000.00 total. I told him I needed this money back because I didn't want to keep borrowing against the lawsuit settlement at 121% interest !!!! 4,000.00 isn't a small amount of money !!! Well, I kept calling and calling and calling , asking this person about the plane tickets, when is he arriving, etc., and FINALLY, the day before our friend's service, he informs me he's not coming, he used the money to pay back rent and get food and how "grateful" he was for my kind help and, oh by the way, our friend? We had a falling out years ago and I can't stand him.... I'm glad he's dead. I hope he rots in Hell . Yes, he said this to me. I was  shocked and hurt. He tells me he's going to get this money back to me one way or another, he PROMISES. Fast forward to 2013. I hadn't received a dime from him , we were still speaking all during these three years and he then tells me  he needs to have knee surgery immediately , could he borrow 4,000.00, to which he promptly produces 4 checks for 1,000.00 each, prodated. He tells me  I can deposit them at the appropriate times. 3 weeks later, I'm getting ready to deposit the first check and he tells me he's having problems with his bank account and  could I wait ... Well, I'm a goodhearted Christian woman and I always try to think the best of people before I actually see the worst, so, once again, I reluctantly agree to wait .....He made extremely feeble attempts to pay anything back and now   I need surgery on my leg. Here it is , 2014 and this man started cursing me out, telling me I am hated by my community, I'm a whore , oh yes ... I'm psycho, a liar .... he texted all this stuff to me and I have those horrible and shocking texts locked on my cell phone ! You should see what  he replied when I told him he wasn't acting very Mormon-like !!!! And this man is espousing the Mormon Faith all the while he's saying these things to me !!!!!!!!! Well, through drips and drabs, he did manage to pay off a thousand dollars so the debt is down to 7000.00 and I told him I absolutely need this money back for my medical care and he told me  in much more colorful language to go to Hell . After much going back and forth he says, he will pay me the 3,000.00 remaining from the 2013 debt, but the 2010 debt was "a gift" . It was no such thing !!!!! It was payment for a service.... for him to fly home, rent a car, pick me up  and take me to my friend's funeral because I had no other way to get there ( I had moved nearly 3 hours away from where we all used to live) . I desperately need this money back and he's acting in a most unholy manner .He told me very personal things that would and do go against the fiber of the Mormon Faith , and he's behaving as a hypocrite . What can I do ? Would someone please PM me so we can talk privately? I am bewildered and shocked at this complete hypocritical betrayal . Thank you. God Bless You All.

[pam]

I'm going to be brutally honest here.  You made the decision to "loan" this person money.  A lot of money.  Somehow this person heard about your settlement I'm guessing and used you and a past friendship to their advantage.

 

Someone you hadn't heard from in 4 years.  And you just loan money like that?  And wasn't one time enough?

 

I'm sorry you are going through some tough times with medical issues..but at the same time I can't feel much sympathy for the lending of the money.

[DellaMarie]

Seriously? That's the answer. This forum is a joke.No wonder 95% of your members are inactive. Bye.

[skippy740]

There's this little thing called small claims court.  Sue him.  That's what people do.  

 

LDS members are not exempt from the law.

 

However, be prepared to show documentation and agreements.  The burden of proof is on you to show that you are owed this money.

 

BTW, being a "goodhearted Christian woman" and hoping that people "rot in hell" and "glad they're dead"... are contradictory statements.

 

Oh, and using paragraphs would certainly make it easier to read your "wall of text" to get input from other posters.

[pam]

 

 

BTW, being a "goodhearted Christian woman" and hoping that people "rot in hell" and "glad they're dead"... are contradictory statements.

 

I believe that it was the person who borrowed the money that said this.  Not the OP.

[skippy740]

how "grateful" he was for my kind help and, oh by the way, our friend? "We had a falling out years ago and I can't stand him.... I'm glad he's dead. I hope he rots in Hell."  Yes, he said this to me.

 

[...]

 

Here it is , 2014 and this man started cursing me out, telling me I am hated by my community, I'm a whore , oh yes ... I'm psycho, a liar .... he texted all this stuff to me and I have those horrible and shocking texts locked on my cell phone !

 

Then it's definitely ambiguous as to "who said what" per the OP.  The first line - who knows?  The second line (for comparison) shows that he clearly stated these things to her.

 

EDIT:  I understand now and have edited the quoted post.  Paragraphs and quotation marks would've helped for us to understand better.

[jerome1232]

Yeah, the first thing I would do if a member of [insert faith here] owed me a lot of money was post on forums of [same faith here] and complain about it. [/sarcasm]

Color me confused.

[nightcrawler1977]

Troll on troll !

[The Folk Prophet]

You really have 3 options as I see it. 1. Keep trying to convince them to pay you back and maybe get a bit back over time, get treated badly, fight, etc. 2. Sue them as DHK suggested (Good luck) and maybe spend more than you get back. 3. Forget about it and move on.

 

I quote here the Lord's prayer for your consideration:

 

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Give us this day our daily bread.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

[The Folk Prophet]

Seriously? That's the answer. This forum is a joke.No wonder 95% of your members are inactive. Bye.

 

The whole forum is a joke because you don't like one person's answer?

 

What sort of answers did you expect? 

[skippy740]

I keep forgetting to ask in the advice forum:  "Do you want sympathy or advice?"

 

I'm convinced that some of these posters would want to hear something like:  

 

"Oh no!  That's terrible!  You poor thing you!  I can't believe that happened to you from one of OUR members!  Let's form a riot and give him exactly what he deserves!  We'll call his Bishop and he'll make sure he pays up or else!"

 

[jerome1232]

 

"Oh no!  That's terrible!  You poor thing you!  I can't believe that happened to you from one of OUR members!  Let's form a riot and give him exactly what he deserves!  We'll call his Bishop and he'll make sure he pays up or else!"

 

Now you are on track haha.

[AngelMarvel]

Seriously? That's the answer. This forum is a joke.No wonder 95% of your members are inactive. Bye.

This just showed me your character.

 

What's the saying... Fooled me once, shame on you. Fooled me twice...shame on me.

[DellaMarie]

The whole forum is a joke because you don't like one person's answer?

 

What sort of answers did you expect? 

I expected an intelligent, thought out reply. I expected people of this man's alleged faith  to give me some insight as to how others within the church you belong to have dealt with this kind of heinous behaviour. I expected to be treated with RESPECT, not ridiculed and scorned. Maybe you all have 4000 extra dollars lying around.... I DO NOT. I have known this man since my teenage years and never thought for two seconds he would pull a [moderator edit] stunt like this on me . He's acting as a thief.And DHK , reread my post...... the man who belongs to your faith said HE  was glad our / my friend was dead .... he wished he would rot in hell. I wouldn't say that about my worst enemy. HE is the one who called me horrible, untrue names ... Again.... I have no room for that kind of talk about people . And, NO ... I'm not  looking for your sympathy. I'm looking for sensible advice when other avenues have failed. And since this man insists on how important his "faith" is to him, I EXPECT him to act like it .... not like a petty crook trying to screw over a person that  helped him to  learn to walk again after his OWN  terrible accident many years ago. A person who remained by his side in friendship  when others chose to walk away , ok? No one gave a [moderator edit] when he had his accident and couldn't walk! We were young and sowing oats. All his " good buddies" were out busy partying and living it up . I'm not saying I sacrificed my entire life for his recovery, far from it, BUT, I WAS the one who single handedly helped him with his physical therapy every day for over a year and a half, no matter what other responsibilities I had; and I had plenty !

   And to the other poster about suing  him; this is no longer a matter for small claims court since it is 6500.00 dollars.

And I agree, yes, shame on me for  trusting a person who spews filth and lies . He is a  stellar representative of your faith , is he not? Someone I would want as an elder in my church ! 

 

   Also for your edification: "running" to a forum is NOT the first thing I did ..... I have tried to talk sense into this miasmic person for months.

Edited June 22, 2014 by beefche
please do not use profanity on this forum.

[Suzie]

DellaMarie, I am very sorry for all the struggles you are going through specially because you lent that money in good faith, it is horrible to read that someone would take advantage like that. Not sure what to advise other than suing him? And even that will cost you big bucks.

 

I understand why you are so angry and upset, I would be very upset as well but I don't think it is fair to judge a whole community of LDS members by saying "He is a stellar representative of your faith, is he not?" because of the actions of said individual.

 

We interact with people on a daily basis who are Catholics, Protestants, Jewish and most of the time, we give little concern about their religion or even link their behavior to their religious beliefs.

 

I know you are hurt which is natural based on the circumstances, but I hope you will understand that not all members of the Church are like that just because you had a horrible experience with one.

[Leah]

I expected an intelligent, thought out reply. I expected people of this man's alleged faith  to give me some insight as to how others within the church you belong to have dealt with this kind of heinous behaviour. I expected to be treated with RESPECT, not ridiculed and scorned. Maybe you all have 4000 extra dollars lying around.... I DO NOT. I have known this man since my teenage years and never thought for two seconds he would pull a [moderator edit] stunt like this on me . He's acting as a thief.And DHK , reread my post...... the man who belongs to your faith said HE  was glad our / my friend was dead .... he wished he would rot in hell. I wouldn't say that about my worst enemy. HE is the one who called me horrible, untrue names ... Again.... I have no room for that kind of talk about people . And, NO ... I'm not  looking for your bloody sympathy. I'm looking for sensible advice when other avenues have failed. And since this man insists on how important his "faith" is to him, I EXPECT him to act like it .... not like a petty crook trying to screw over a person that  helped him to  learn to walk again after his OWN  terrible accident many years ago. A person who remained by his side in friendship  when others chose to walk away , ok? No one gave a [moderator edit] when he had his accident and couldn't walk! We were young and sowing oats. All his " good buddies" were out busy partying and living it up . I'm not saying I sacrificed my entire life for his recovery, far from it, BUT, I WAS the one who single handedly helped him with his physical therapy every day for over a year and a half, no matter what other responsibilities I had; and I had plenty !

   And to the other poster about suing  him; this is no longer a matter for small claims court since it is 6500.00 dollars.

And I agree, yes, shame on me for  trusting a person who spews filth and lies . He is a  stellar representative of your faith , is he not? Someone I would want as an elder in my church ! 

 

   Also for your edification: "running" to a forum is NOT the first thing I did ..... I have tried to talk sense into this miasmic person for months.

Your coming to this forum makes NO sense whatsoever. There is nothing anyone here can do about this (supposed) situation. Did you expect someone here to hunt this person down and get him to cough up the money? The money YOU chose to give him? You could have said no. Heck, you had more than one chance to say no!

Or did you expect someone here to pony up the money that is supposedly owed you simply because (according to you) we are members of the same church? Does that somehow make us responsible for what happened to you? Whatever his religion may be, his religion isn't responsible for his actions, HE is. Just like YOU are responsible for your actions.

There is really no logical reason to post this here as there is absolutely nothing anyone here can do about the situation. We can't give you any advice that is different than anything you've already been told. We can't give you some magic solution just because this man is supposedly LDS. His religion isn't the reason he acted the way you say he did.

If your story is accurate, there may or may not be legal recourse for you, and that information needs to come from an attorney in your state, and the religion of any of the parties involved is not relevant to that potential legal recourse.

Or did you come to this forum because you were in the mood to bash Mormons?

Edited June 22, 2014 by DHK
edited out profanity in quoted post

[dahlia]

Last time I looked, there were criminals and charlatans of all faiths - or at least the claim to have a faith. Maybe that's the first indication that they are not what they say they are. Lemme see - I'm a good Mormon, I haven't seen you for years, and the first thing I do is ask you for money to go to a funeral. Why didn't your radar go off then?

 

You probably don't know me, OP, but I was a lawyer in a past life. I can't tell you how many times clients' problems were caused by their own poor choices in life. You let this person use you by giving in the first time. The 'friend' then knew exactly what kind of person s/he was dealing with and had no issue with asking you for more money. And you, having not learned your lesson, provided even more money.

 

What is your purpose in coming here - to say all LDS are liars and cheats? For us to get up a collection for you? Some people enjoy getting used, and then playing the martyr when things go wrong. I'm sorry these things happened to you, but you openend the door.

[skippy740]

Beware of affinity fraud - within or outside your faith or other organizations:

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/affinity-fraud

 

Here's a couple of examples:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47881681

 

http://utahsecuritiesfraud.wordpress.com/tag/ponzi-scheme/

 

 

I am not an attorney, but if you're assuming that just because someone is (supposedly) a member of our church in good standing, and that means that he's supposed to act in a certain way... then you are assuming that his affiliation is a good character check.  I used that word 'assume' on purpose.

 

And somehow, I doubt he was "flaunting his lds credentials" in order to possibly 'con' you out of your money.

 

BTW, I re-read the original post and I have edited my previous response.  Paragraphs and quotation marks would've helped my reading comprehension.  Walls of text are hard to read.

[NeuroTypical]

Hi DellaMarie,

 

I remember how ticked off and betrayed I felt when someone scammed me for thousands of dollars.  I remember getting contacted years later by the next person he had cheated in the same way - she was even more ticked off and felt more betrayed than I had.  

 

Sorry this happened to you.

[DellaMarie]

Beware of affinity fraud - within or outside your faith or other organizations:

 

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/affinity-fraud

 

Here's a couple of examples:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/47881681

 

http://utahsecuritiesfraud.wordpress.com/tag/ponzi-scheme/

 

 

I am not an attorney, but if you're assuming that just because someone is (supposedly) a member of our church in good standing, and that means that he's supposed to act in a certain way... then you are assuming that his affiliation is a good character check.  I used that word 'assume' on purpose.

 

And somehow, I doubt he was "flaunting his lds credentials" in order to possibly 'con' you out of your money.

 

BTW, I re-read the original post and I have edited my previous response.  Paragraphs and quotation marks would've helped my reading comprehension.  Walls of text are hard to read.

Thank you DHK. Sorry about the nonparagraphs. The thing is, he DID use his faith as a bait. It wasn't like we reconnected and two minutes later he was asking for the money .We reconnected a few months earlier, and then our/my friend died. I had no idea he and this man had a falling out years ago. He didn't mention that  in our stroll down Memory Lane  . He INSISTED on coming home to take me to the funeral because I had expressed a sadness at not being able to go due to being in a wheelchair from my car accident, and not having anyone who could come out and get me . It  wasn't just about my dead friend. He said he also wanted to spend time with me. Every time I called , he still hadn't made any arrangements to fly out and  then finally he dropped that hate bomb on me and  told me he had no intention of coming back for our friend and he used the money for his own personal needs! And yes , I was  definitely a fool  to lend to him a second time . You get no defense from me on that . But I DID  believe we were genuine friends still , so forgiveness and understanding are supposed to run deep , especially when he kept promising that all would be repaid.

 

   He talked constantly about the church in those months prior .. so YES... I did expect him to behave in a morally upright fashion. To that poster who asked if I came here to bash Mormons..... where in any of these lines have you seen anything even resembling that ? That's absurd. You seem to be implying I believe this man did this because he's Mormon.... I'm saying this man did this and is hiding behind a veil, claiming to act as a Man of God when he's being a hypocrite ! If he was Catholic, Jewish or worshipped Star Trek Klingons  would make no difference ..... using a love of God, espousing it constantly and then bilking people is not cool. I have always been a Spiritual person, there was no secret to that EVER in my life. He used my Love For God and manipulated an injured person. 

 

Going to read those links now.  And thank you  Suzie and NeuroTypical . 

 

Thank you for those articles DHK. They are very enlightening, indeed. Of  course, this isn't a ponzi scheme, but the spirit of the articles completely relates on a microcosmic level what has  happened to me . I believe I have been given good information from you  and will now think, pray and meditate upon the situation  in a brighter light. Thank you everyone for your contribution to my query and may God Bless You and keep you safe always. Take care. ~~ Della Marie

[Palerider]

I am very careful about doing business with members....why....several are close friends .....makes me uneasy....unfortunately the way some members act on Sunday is not the way they behave the rest of the week.

[DellaMarie]

    This is very true palerider. My heart is broken . Even though many years had passed since not seeing this person we always enjoyed what I thought to be a true and bonafide  friendship. This was certainly the last thing I expected .

     

     Although I am not Mormon, I have read sacred texts belonging to the church and the importance of honesty and forthrightness has always been such a dominant theme and decree. I admire that , so when my friend offered to  assist in paying our  respects to whom I thought was our mutual friend for decades , I really had no reason to  doubt any insincerity. After the revelation of the falling out , I chose to forgive his feelings towards our friend because I had no direct knowledge of what happened and there was only one side to tell now. 

 

    Two years transpired , and all the time he would mention this money and how he was going to pay it back and not to worry . Then, he came to me with a story of medical need,and myself being in the same position, my heart went out to him. It was completely foolish of me to trust him. He certainly is a " Sunday only Worshipper" .

 

    I can't live my life like that . I make mistakes like any human, but my faith and belief are unwavering and I completely believe the Golden Rule is of paramount importance.  I would never do this to another person, especially one who has undergone such suffering from an accident. When he had his accident, I never even asked him about the money he received. Didn't ask for a penny, never knew when the matter settled. It was none of my business and even though I had helped him tremendously, I never felt entitled to ask for anything from him. 

  

   The fact that he can do this to  a  friend who has gone through hell and  back  because of this near fatal accident appalls me and I seriously wonder how much he actually ever cared for me . Well, I won't be bothering any of you kindfolk again. I  received valuable insight and I'm on my way now . Feel free to close this thread as I consider my questions answered. Thanks.

[Palerider]

I also know living here in the Bible Belt these same type of issues exist in other Churches in our area with their membership. I also am quite sure all churches of all faiths have this issue as well.

[Backroads]

Now I feel extremely petty about my washer/dryer issue.

 

I'm very sorry this happened to you.  As for him being a hypocrite, there's not much you can do--that's his issue and even finding his bishop and telling him would pretty much be tattling.  As it stands, I'd say his religion is neither here nor there on this behavior. It's lousy behavior.

 

If you're up for going the legal route, do that. Otherwise, I say cut your losses and cut him out of your life.

[Maureen]

DellaMarie, here's my advice:

 

1) Find yourself a time machine, go back to the past, and when he asks to borrow money, say NO. (But since that is unlikely)

 

2) If he is a church attending member, then find out what ward he attends and send his Bishop a letter, listing what he has done. This may get him disciplined, but not sure if it will get your money back.

 

3) Learn from this terrible experience, and don't be so gullible in the future.

 

M.