Question About Unpaid Clergy

[spamlds]

The biggest problems with the paid clergy have to do with this scripture in 2 Timothy chapter 4:

 

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

I have friends who are pastors and they do not enjoy the freedom to preach according to their knowledge or conscience.  They have a board that they are accountable to that controls their paycheck and their employ.  The pastors get "on the hook" because their congregation provides them with a house (a parsonage), a paycheck, and very often a car.  They get perks like paid vacations and trips that are funded by their congregation's donations. 

 

Then, when the Spirit moves them to call someone to repentance, the next thing they know is that the board is dealing with the complaint from the offended party. It is often the case that a dispute between two parties arises that divides the congregation and he is asked to take sides.  A split can occur and then half the church quits.

 

Then, the group that leaves goes out--having "itching ears"--and they hire a new pastor who won't call them to repentance like the old one.  That lasts until a new dispute occurs.  

 

In the LDS Church, we operate from the position of having delegated keys of authority and men who are called by authority, by prophecy, and the laying on of hands.  No one is hired.  The bishop this week can be the nursery leader next week.  Everyone knows that.  There is no "job security" involved.  Thus, he can preach, counsel, and call to repentance as needed.  Disputes happen from time to time, but the congregation doesn't call the bishop or employ him.  Ward councils run on the principle of unanimity.  If unanimity on any issue can't be achieved, we pretty much can assume that it's not the Lord's will and we look for new solutions to problems.  The system works because nobody depends on an ecclesiastical calling to feed his children or keep a roof over his head.  There's more integrity in the system that way.  Any other system where a preacher can be fired by his congregation inevitably leads to a loss of integrity.

[prisonchaplain]

Spamlds, there are church splits that happen.  Sometimes it is because the pastor has offended a member who is influential in the church.  A call to repentence is but one example.  However, there is an irony--this kind of problem is most common in small congregations--the kind where one to three family can influence the budget (or membership) signficantly.  In bigger, multi-staff churches, a disgruntled member may be able to stir the pot, but can seldom drive out a pastor.

 

All this to say that paying clergy is seldom the cause of church struggles.  Most pastors could do other work for much better pay, if they did not sense a call to the ministry.  There are exceptions, and I would not suggest any radical shift in this direction for LDS.  After all, your bishops are not charged primarily with teaching/preaching or evangelistic speaking, anyway.  Their work is more about administration, orderly operations, and individual counseling (based upon basic scripture and the leading of the Holy Spirit, as I understand it).

 

In the evangelical church world those pastors who compromise their message might do so to gain a larger following.  They will say they are being "positive and encouraging," and that they are "seeker sensitive."  So, the temptation is not about fear of losing a paycheck, but rather the glory of growing a huge congregation.  And yes, many will flock to the kinds of churches that always make them feel better, and never require accountability.

[PolarVortex]

Off topic, but interesting.  Popes are paid, but only after they die.  When Pope John Paul II (now known as Saint John Paul the Great, I guess) passed away, he was given three bags of coins as payment for his services.  The coins were placed in his coffin and buried with him.  It wasn't a lot of money, something like $141, according to Wikipedia.

[Guest]

Off topic, but interesting.  Popes are paid, but only after they die.  When Pope John Paul II (now known as Saint John Paul the Great, I guess) passed away, he was given three bags of coins as payment for his services.  The coins were placed in his coffin and buried with him.  It wasn't a lot of money, something like $141, according to Wikipedia.

 

The coins - one copper, one silver, and one gold coin - are actually minted on each year of the pope's reign.  So, as Pope John Paul the Great reigned close to 27 years (I think), he would have 27 copper coins minted over 27 years in one bag, 27 silver coins in the other bag, and 27 gold coins in the other bag.  But Pope John Paul I was only pope for a month, so he got only 1 coin in each bag.

[PolarVortex]

The coins - one copper, one silver, and one gold coin - are actually minted on each year of the pope's reign.  So, as Pope John Paul the Great reigned close to 27 years (I think), he would have 27 copper coins minted over 27 years in one bag, 27 silver coins in the other bag, and 27 gold coins in the other bag.  But Pope John Paul I was only pope for a month, so he got only 1 coin in each bag.

 

Let's not tell my biggest client about this... he might get some ideas and try to redesign his current compensation structure with me.

 

Back to the topic: I am the opposite of Silhouette.  When I first starting to learn about the Church, I assumed everyone was paid, including modest honorariums for the speakers in sacrament meetings.  When I learned the truth, I was quite impressed that the entire Church could function with only the very top boxes of the org chart getting a salary.  I've worked for enough companies where all the boxes get paid, and yet the company lurches endlessly from one crisis to another.

[tweetyt03]

Lol i always thought that's why general authorities were so old...They're retired & got social security & ain't got nothing better to do...lol i guess I'm naive too. I didn't know that. Lol

[tweetyt03]

Duplicate

Edited October 9, 2014 by tweetyt03

[tweetyt03]

Duplicate

Edited October 9, 2014 by tweetyt03

[Backroads]

I respect paid clergy, generally speaking. I admire those who want to make a career of spirituality.

On the OP, I think I asked as a child how much the prophet makes and learned about the stipend.

[spamlds]

I can empathize with the sentiment that having a paid clergy could be a good idea.  I was once a branch president of a small branch of the Church.  Almost all my branch members were elderly and disabled.  It became an almost full-time job--and I already had a regular, secular profession.  Nevertheless, the creation of a professional clergy is prohibited by revelation.  Mormons generally interpret these Bible passages to be a condemnation of having a paid clergy.

 

John 10:13--

 

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

 

 

Titus 1:7

 

7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

 

1 Timothy 3:2-3

 

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

 

1 Timothy 3-8 

 

Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

 

Nephi calls preaching for money priestcraft and soundly condemns the practice.

 

2 Nephi 26--

 

29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

30 Behold, the Lord hath forbidden this thing; wherefore, the Lord God hath given a commandment that all men should have charity, which charity is love. And except they should have charity they were nothing. Wherefore, if they should have charity they would not suffer the laborer in Zion to perish.

31 But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish.

 

In Alma, we read about Nehor, who set up a church with a professional clergy.  This church persecuted the true Church and eventually gained dominance in the city of Ammonihah.  This city was ultimately destroyed for its sins and persecutions of the saints (in Alma chapter 16).

 

Alma 1:3,16--

 

3 And he had gone about among the people, preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God, bearing down against the church; declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular; and they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people.

 

16 Nevertheless, this did not put an end to the spreading of priestcraft through the land; for there were many who loved the vain things of the world, and they went forth preaching false doctrines; and this they did for the sake of riches and honor.

 

We don't consider that all professional pastors of other faiths are engaging in priestcraft.  Most of them are doing the best they can do with the light they have so far received from God.  Hopefully they will receive the message of the Restoration one day and comply fully with the need to receive authority through the proper channels and preach out of charity, not the need to make a living.

 

Members of the Church who promote having a paid clergy are teaching the doctrine of Nehor.  It's always a good idea to search the scriptures to inform our opinions.

[Guest]

I think that we should trend towards paid clergy. If and only if for the need to have trained individuals to lead us. In the Catholic church a priest must go to years and years of schooling before he is qualified to lead a flock. This not only includes theological training but temporal training as well. 

 

Because they haven't had any problems with their clergy?

[bytebear]

It's important to note that full time church leaders still have families that need assistance. Mission presidents, for example will receive living stipends for their spouse and children. But it is still a voluntary position since they do not recelive a salary.  They only receive enough so that their kids don't lose money that would have been used for their college, for example.  It's not fair to the family to remove their only means of payment, and so the stipend is really for them, and not for the leader himself.

 

Let me restate.  All church leaders are volunteers.  The stipend is for those who are not called but who would be adversly affected because the church leader accepted a calling that did not allow him to provide for his family.

Edited October 10, 2014 by bytebear

[mrmarklin]

Many years ago I worked in a mission office and became privy to the amount of the stipend the mission president received.

It was very modest IMO.

[mrmarklin]

Many years ago I worked in a mission office and became privy to the amount of the stipend the mission president received.

It was very modest IMO.

[Guest]

I think that we should trend towards paid clergy. If and only if for the need to have trained individuals to lead us. In the Catholic church a priest must go to years and years of schooling before he is qualified to lead a flock. This not only includes theological training but temporal training as well. 

 

If our Bishops were as well trained as other paid clergy we would have fewer issues in general. Less turnover, a true commitment to the work not "oh I was called so I guess I better do it". Scripture supports paid clergy so I am a little vague on as to why we do not go this route....

 

Note:  The Catholic Priest is not paid clergy.

[omegaseamaster75]

Note:  The Catholic Priest is not paid clergy.

OK call it remuneration, they still draw a "salary"

 

Old info, but relevant to the conversation, no one becomes a priest because they want to get rich, they do it because they want to serve.

 

 PRIEST REMUNERATION AND BENEFITS PACKAGE 

EFFECTIVE 1 JULY 2009 THROUGH 30 JUNE 2010 

1. The base salary for active Diocesan or religious priests serving in Diocesan 

parishes and institutions is to be $2,095.00 per month ($25,140 per year). 

2. $10.00 per month for each year of ordination is to be added to the base pay 

beginning with the completion of the first year of ordination. Upon completion of 

the 20th year of ordination, $15.00 per month is to be added to the base pay for 

each year of ordination. 

EXAMPLES: 

A newly ordained priest receives the base pay for the first 12 months of active 

ministry. 

Priests completing 1 year through 19 years of ordination: 

(Number of years ordained) X $10.00 per month. 

This means if a priest has been ordained 19 years, multiply the number of years by the 

$10.00 per month. You would multiply 19 times 10, resulting in an addition to the 

base pay of $190.00 per month. 

Priests completing 20 years or greater of ordination: 

(Number of years ordained) X $15.00 per month. 

This means if a priest has been ordained 20 years, multiply the total number of years 

of ordination by the $15.00 per month. You would multiply 20 times 15, resulting in 

an addition to the base pay of $300.00 per month.

3. The traditional Mass stipend ($10.00 per Mass) shall continue to be offered to 

each priest as has been the long standing custom. 

4. Stole fees for weddings, funerals, baptisms, etc., shall be disbursed at the 

discretion of the priests of the parish. 

5. The monthly amount for living costs is $424.00 per month for priests living at a 

parish, but not assigned to the parish. The department or entity where the priest 

is assigned is to pay this amount to the parish where the priest lives. 

6. The entire amount of the annual contribution per priest to the Priests’ Retirement 

Fund is to be paid by the parish or institution to which a priest is assigned. The 

annual contribution for each priest to the Retirement Fund is $10,250 for 2010, 

up from the 2009 contribution of $9,850. Beyond 2010, however, this amount is 

subject to change after annual review by the Priests’ Retirement Board and 

approval by the Bishop. 

MORE INFORMATION PRINTED ON THE REVERSE SIDE OF THIS SHEET 7. The option of each priest to join the health insurance plan of his choice from the 

options provided by the Diocese of Cleveland Employee Benefits Office remains 

in effect. The parish or institution to which the priest is assigned is responsible 

for the cost of medical insurance less any required contributions or co-payments 

by the priest. 

8. $2,000.00 per year is to be available (on a voucher system) for active priests’ 

continuing education allotment. This money should be used solely for the annual 

retreat, professional books and periodicals, tuition payments in conjunction with 

higher educational pursuits, and internet/electronic technology that is used for 

priestly ministry. $2,000.00 per year is available (on a voucher system) to 

retired priests from the parish or institution from which the priest retired. This 

money is to be used solely for the annual retreat, professional books and 

periodicals, tuition payments in conjunction with higher educational pursuits, and 

internet/electronic technology that is used for priestly ministry. If the continuing 

education allotment is given to a priest for reimbursement of an actual cost 

incurred for continuing education, it is generally not taxable income to the priest. 

The continuing education allotment is to be given to any priest (active or retired) 

who submits the appropriate documentation. 

9. Usual offerings for those who provide extra pastoral assistance: 

 1 Weekday Mass $10.00 + stipend 

 1 Mass on Sunday or Holyday $50.00 + stipend 

 2 Masses on a Sunday or Holyday 

 (on the same day) $75.00 + stipend 

 Confessions $25.00 each session 

 Reimbursement should be made for travel beyond 20 miles (one way). 

10. All other expenses incurred by a priest (for example, car payments, car 

maintenance, auto insurance, personal property insurance, renters insurance, 

fuel for automobile, clothing and other personal items, recreation, Federal tax, 

State tax, and local tax liabilities, family and personal financial obligations, etc.) 

are the responsibility of the individual priest. The parish must not pay or 

reimburse the priest for car payments, lease payments, automobile insurance, 

mileage, or any other personal expense. The parish is not permitted to withhold 

or match Social Security or Medicare tax for any cleric. Diocesan clergy are dual 

status taxpayers. The individual priest is responsible for 100% of his Social 

Security payments. It is a violation of current tax law for the parish to pay or 

reimburse any Social Security expenses. 

 

11.POLICY: There will be an annual adjustment (up or down) to the base salary and 

housing allowance in accordance with the transportation, recreation, other goods 

and services and housing categories of the local Consumer Price Index, All Urban 

Consumers. This shall be computed by the Finance Office and communicated by 

the Chancery after approval by the Bishop. 

[omegaseamaster75]

Because they haven't had any problems with their clergy?

We haven't had any problems with ours? Bad people come in all shapes forms sizes and religions, yes even ours.

[mordorbund]

Members of the Church who promote having a paid clergy are teaching the doctrine of Nehor.  It's always a good idea to search the scriptures to inform our opinions.

 

Or they are teaching the doctrine of Joseph Smith, as cited above. It is indeed a good idea to search the scriptures to inform our opinions.

[Guest]

 

OK call it remuneration, they still draw a "salary"

 

Old info, but relevant to the conversation, no one becomes a priest because they want to get rich, they do it because they want to serve.

 

 PRIEST REMUNERATION AND BENEFITS PACKAGE 

EFFECTIVE 1 JULY 2009 THROUGH 30 JUNE 2010 

1. The base salary for active Diocesan or religious priests serving in Diocesan 

parishes and institutions is to be $2,095.00 per month ($25,140 per year). 

2. $10.00 per month for each year of ordination is to be added to the base pay 

beginning with the completion of the first year of ordination. Upon completion of 

the 20th year of ordination, $15.00 per month is to be added to the base pay for 

each year of ordination. 

EXAMPLES: 

A newly ordained priest receives the base pay for the first 12 months of active 

ministry. 

Priests completing 1 year through 19 years of ordination: 

(Number of years ordained) X $10.00 per month. 

This means if a priest has been ordained 19 years, multiply the number of years by the 

$10.00 per month. You would multiply 19 times 10, resulting in an addition to the 

base pay of $190.00 per month. 

Priests completing 20 years or greater of ordination: 

(Number of years ordained) X $15.00 per month. 

This means if a priest has been ordained 20 years, multiply the total number of years 

of ordination by the $15.00 per month. You would multiply 20 times 15, resulting in 

an addition to the base pay of $300.00 per month.

3. The traditional Mass stipend ($10.00 per Mass) shall continue to be offered to 

each priest as has been the long standing custom. 

4. Stole fees for weddings, funerals, baptisms, etc., shall be disbursed at the 

discretion of the priests of the parish. 

5. The monthly amount for living costs is $424.00 per month for priests living at a 

parish, but not assigned to the parish. The department or entity where the priest 

is assigned is to pay this amount to the parish where the priest lives. 

6. The entire amount of the annual contribution per priest to the Priests’ Retirement 

Fund is to be paid by the parish or institution to which a priest is assigned. The 

annual contribution for each priest to the Retirement Fund is $10,250 for 2010, 

up from the 2009 contribution of $9,850. Beyond 2010, however, this amount is 

subject to change after annual review by the Priests’ Retirement Board and 

approval by the Bishop. 

MORE INFORMATION PRINTED ON THE REVERSE SIDE OF THIS SHEET 7. The option of each priest to join the health insurance plan of his choice from the 

options provided by the Diocese of Cleveland Employee Benefits Office remains 

in effect. The parish or institution to which the priest is assigned is responsible 

for the cost of medical insurance less any required contributions or co-payments 

by the priest. 

8. $2,000.00 per year is to be available (on a voucher system) for active priests’ 

continuing education allotment. This money should be used solely for the annual 

retreat, professional books and periodicals, tuition payments in conjunction with 

higher educational pursuits, and internet/electronic technology that is used for 

priestly ministry. $2,000.00 per year is available (on a voucher system) to 

retired priests from the parish or institution from which the priest retired. This 

money is to be used solely for the annual retreat, professional books and 

periodicals, tuition payments in conjunction with higher educational pursuits, and 

internet/electronic technology that is used for priestly ministry. If the continuing 

education allotment is given to a priest for reimbursement of an actual cost 

incurred for continuing education, it is generally not taxable income to the priest. 

The continuing education allotment is to be given to any priest (active or retired) 

who submits the appropriate documentation. 

9. Usual offerings for those who provide extra pastoral assistance: 

 1 Weekday Mass $10.00 + stipend 

 1 Mass on Sunday or Holyday $50.00 + stipend 

 2 Masses on a Sunday or Holyday 

 (on the same day) $75.00 + stipend 

 Confessions $25.00 each session 

 Reimbursement should be made for travel beyond 20 miles (one way). 

10. All other expenses incurred by a priest (for example, car payments, car 

maintenance, auto insurance, personal property insurance, renters insurance, 

fuel for automobile, clothing and other personal items, recreation, Federal tax, 

State tax, and local tax liabilities, family and personal financial obligations, etc.) 

are the responsibility of the individual priest. The parish must not pay or 

reimburse the priest for car payments, lease payments, automobile insurance, 

mileage, or any other personal expense. The parish is not permitted to withhold 

or match Social Security or Medicare tax for any cleric. Diocesan clergy are dual 

status taxpayers. The individual priest is responsible for 100% of his Social 

Security payments. It is a violation of current tax law for the parish to pay or 

reimburse any Social Security expenses. 

 

11.POLICY: There will be an annual adjustment (up or down) to the base salary and 

housing allowance in accordance with the transportation, recreation, other goods 

and services and housing categories of the local Consumer Price Index, All Urban 

Consumers. This shall be computed by the Finance Office and communicated by 

the Chancery after approval by the Bishop. 

 

 

If you consider President Monson and the Apostles and your full-time missionaries as paid clergy because they get a stipend, then Catholic Priests are paid clergy.  What you posted here as salary is synonymous to what you call stipend in the LDS Church.  The basic difference is that, LDS clergy have secular lives (they have the opportunity to gain resources prior to them being called to be full-time clergy) whereas Catholic Priests are called to full-time services the minute they get ordained until they die - which, in most cases, are people who have never set foot in the secular workforce before ordination.  But even if they have money (such as inheritance, etc.) before they get ordained, the ordination requires them to pledge the vow of poverty which means that they release their claim on any treasures they held before ordination.  So that, ALL Catholic Priests do not have a dime to their name when they start full-time priesthood service and are fully supported by the congregation for their temporal sustenance.

 

But, there is a basic difference between what we are talking about as a paid clergy to Pres. Monson and the Catholic Priests who receive a stipend/salary from the congregation for their temporal sustenance (the way the Levites were set up and the way that Jesus' 12 Apostles supported themselves).

 

Paid clergy is payment for services rendered.  What Pres. Monson and the Catholic Priests get is not payment for services rendered.  It is for their temporal sustenance so that they can concentrate on service instead of taking time out of service to provide for their basic necessities.  The Vatican controls what they can spend that money on.

Edited October 10, 2014 by anatess

[omegaseamaster75]

If you consider President Monson and the Apostles and your full-time missionaries as paid clergy because they get a stipend, then Catholic Priests are paid clergy.  What you posted here as salary is synonymous to what you call stipend in the LDS Church.  The basic difference is that, LDS clergy have secular lives (they have the opportunity to gain resources prior to them being called to be full-time clergy) whereas Catholic Priests are called to full-time services the minute they get ordained until they die - which, in most cases, are people who have never set foot in the secular workforce before ordination.  But even if they have money (such as inheritance, etc.) before they get ordained, the ordination requires them to pledge the vow of poverty which means that they release their claim on any treasures they held before ordination.  So that, ALL Catholic Priests do not have a dime to their name when they start full-time priesthood service and are fully supported by the congregation.

 

But, there is a basic difference between what we are talking about as a paid clergy to Pres. Monson and the Catholic Priests who receive a stipend/salary from the congregation for their temporal sustenance (the way the Levites were set up and the way the Jesus' 12 Apostles supported themselves).

 

Paid clergy is payment for services rendered.  What Pres. Monson and the Catholic Priests get is not payment for services rendered.  It is for their temporal sustenance so that they can concentrate on service instead of taking time out of service to provide for their basic necessities.

I agree 100%, my belief is that our leaders should get the essential training to LEAD and GUIDE then if they want to dedicate their lives to the church we provide a living wage similar to the stipend system used for Pres. Monson.

 

I am not saying that our bishops/stake presidents are bad or that they do not call qualified people, however very often it is amateur hour, not their fault but a consequence of not being able to dedicate the time necessary to the calling.

[Guest]

We haven't had any problems with ours? Bad people come in all shapes forms sizes and religions, yes even ours.

 

Right, and my point was that being paid or not paid doesn't seem to be relevant. 

[Guest]

I agree 100%, my belief is that our leaders should get the essential training to LEAD and GUIDE then if they want to dedicate their lives to the church we provide a living wage similar to the stipend system used for Pres. Monson.

 

I am not saying that our bishops/stake presidents are bad or that they do not call qualified people, however very often it is amateur hour, not their fault but a consequence of not being able to dedicate the time necessary to the calling.

 

I understand what you're saying but the set-up is very different in the LDS Church as to that of the Catholic Church which makes the Catholic system of living wage - or any other living wage systems - problematic to the LDS Church.  In the LDS Church, clergy are encouraged to have families.  In the Catholic Church, Priests are required to make the vow of celibacy so that even if they got ordained after they already have families, they have to cut off financial support to those families at ordination.  In the LDS Church, not only is the living wage needed to sustain the clergy, it has to sustain the family as well.  And this is where the problem lies... because, the system of sustenance is only applicable to the priest who holds the calling, and not his family.  For example - a Bishop who has to send 3 kids to college would require more wage than a Bishop who is not supporting a kid, so dedicating their lives to the Church would involve their families.

Edited October 10, 2014 by anatess

[prisonchaplain]

I can empathize with the sentiment that having a paid clergy could be a good idea.  I was once a branch president of a small branch of the Church.  Almost all my branch members were elderly and disabled.  It became an almost full-time job--and I already had a regular, secular profession.  Nevertheless, the creation of a professional clergy is prohibited by revelation.  Mormons generally interpret these Bible passages to be a condemnation of having a paid clergy.

 

John 10:13--

 

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

 

 

Titus 1:7

 

7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

 

1 Timothy 3:2-3

 

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

 

1 Timothy 3-8 

 

Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

 

We don't consider that all professional pastors of other faiths are engaging in priestcraft.  Most of them are doing the best they can do with the light they have so far received from God.  Hopefully they will receive the message of the Restoration one day and comply fully with the need to receive authority through the proper channels and preach out of charity, not the need to make a living.

 

Members of the Church who promote having a paid clergy are teaching the doctrine of Nehor.  It's always a good idea to search the scriptures to inform our opinions.

 

I only left in the passage from the Bible, since I can comment on them more intelligently.  Suffice to say that if I believed that modern prophets had revealed that church leaders were not to be salaried, then I would find comfort and confirmation in the quoted passages.  They would seem to reveal the wisdom behind the revelation. 

 

As an evangelical pastor, I look to those passages as very wise caution, that I keep the main thing the main thing (Christ and his kingdom).  Additionally, if I sense God calling me to a position with less or no pay, will I obey that calling?  The correct answer is yes.  That had better be my answer!  God is my supply.

 

And again, back to those verses.  If there were a revelation that came today from the Church's prophets that, for example, bishops should start to receive stipends, my guess is that the above verses would not be seen as having to contradict the revelation.

 

On the other hand, those who want to prevent that from ever happening might consider starting a bishops' advocacy group that lobbies at conventions, and talks to the secular media about their issues. 

[prisonchaplain]

Because they haven't had any problems with their clergy?

 

I get this--but it isn't fair.  Catholic clergy pay is very modest, in part because they are celibate.  The priest I work with turns his salary over to his order, and is given a modest stipend.  You've surely heard of the vow of poverty that many order priests take?  The highly publicized problems the Catholic church is facing are probably not proportionally higher than for other faiths--it's just that they've got over a billion members, and so lots of priests.

[omegaseamaster75]

Right, and my point was that being paid or not paid doesn't seem to be relevant. 

Not when it comes to bad behavior it doesn't, but the level of preparedness shows.