So no coffee, eh?

[The New Guy]

More questions, sorry. :)

 

I understand that members of the LDS church don't drink coffee, tea, and soda. Is this correct?

 

I for one love my Starbucks and soda too but I am willing to learn the correct path that I should be on.

[Guest]

We drink soda. Some of us more than we ought to. :)

 

Coffee and tea and alcohol are the only drinks expressly forbidden in the Word of Wisdom.

[Just_A_Guy]

Church members believe they are the beneficiaries of a covenant called "the Word of Wisdom", which is spelled out in Section 89 of a book of scripture called the Doctrine and Covenants.  You can read that section, here. 

 

Church leaders have subsequently clarified that the "hot drinks" mentioned in verse 9 refer primarily to tea (made from the tea leaf--doesn't count teas made from other plants or fruits) and coffee.  There are individual Mormons who also abstain from caffeinated sodas, on the rationale that caffeine is habit-forming and that the spirit of the Word of Wisdom is that the body should be kept free of all addictive/habit-forming substances.  Some church leaders have also expressed this opinion.  However, the Church as a whole does not hold that caffeinated beverages are a violation of the Word of Wisdom:  Individual Mormons make that decision for themselves.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[The New Guy]

Once again, thanks for answering my questions! :)

[The Folk Prophet]

Wondering where you got "soda" from? I've never seen or heard anything about soda being an issue in or out of the church. Some people translate (incorrectly) the coffee and tea thing to mean caffeine, and therefore caffeinated sodas. But 7-up/Sprite? Rootbeer? Fresca?

[Leah]

Wondering where you got "soda" from? I've never seen or heard anything about soda being an issue in or out of the church. Some people translate (incorrectly) the coffee and tea thing to mean caffeine, and therefore caffeinated sodas. But 7-up/Sprite? Rootbeer? Fresca?

 I joined the church in 2011.  I have encountered members here in Oregon who act as though drinking soda (we called it 'pop' where I grew up in the midwest) is a major sin and aren't at all shy about expressing their viewpoint.   And if your soda happens to be a Coke or a Pepsi.....off to Outer Darkness you go!

 

I even had a woman tell me - after seeing me drink a Coke - that I would "never" pass my Temple Recommend interviews because of that.  She, of course, was wrong.

 

This particular woman had a number of....interesting...interpretations of things, including tithing.  She stated quite emphatically that if any member says they tithe 10%,they are just flat-out lying.  Kind of made me wonder what she tells the bishop during tithing settlement.

 

All of the above-referenced people certainly consumed their fair of sugar in other forms and weren't the stereotypical Oregonian health-food fanatics in any way, so I never understood their soda-shaming ways.

[blueskye]

More questions, sorry. :)

I understand that members of the LDS church don't drink coffee, tea, and soda. Is this correct?

I for one love my Starbucks and soda too but I am willing to learn the correct path that I should be on.

Growing up LDS, coffee, tea and caffeinated sodas were off limits. We weren't sure cola flavored candy was off limits, so we enjoyed those out of eye sight of parents. Lol. My parents to this day do not drink caffeinated sodas. My mom was very upset when she discovered the Barq's root beer she enjoyed, had caffeine in it. She read all drink labels after that, and my once enjoyed Mello Yello was out. Btw, these are memories that make me smile. Especially the Barq's root beer. Lol. My mom was beside herself that someone would ruin a good root beer with caffeine. Civilization in decline!! Edited July 15, 2015 by blueskye

[Blackmarch]

Wondering where you got "soda" from? I've never seen or heard anything about soda being an issue in or out of the church. Some people translate (incorrectly) the coffee and tea thing to mean caffeine, and therefore caffeinated sodas. But 7-up/Sprite? Rootbeer? Fresca?

it's an issue in some places. I know a person where those noncaffienated items were at the point where it was becoming a word of wisdom problem.

[NeuroTypical]

Yeah, I used to do a lot of arguing online about the supposed commandments against caffeine back in the 90's.  Not so much anymore.  I think the internet helped kill that particular nondoctrinal cultural critter.

[Guest MormonGator]

Since becoming LDS I've found I don't miss the alcohol but I do miss the cigars. 

[The Folk Prophet]

it's an issue in some places. I know a person where those noncaffienated items were at the point where it was becoming a word of wisdom problem.

 

Spirit of the law word of wisdom problems are different, of course, than the strict letter of the law. The fact that some take in too much sugar, for example, steps on the toes of the spirit of the word of wisdom. But doing so does not violate the letter of the law, nor does it keep one out of the temple.

 

Which leads one to wonder -- does violation of the spirit of the law of the word of wisdom jeopardize one's potential salvation? Particularly if one is not doing so rebelliously, but merely by human weakness (as in overeating and never exercising and the like). My inclination would be to say it does not, and that the spirit of the law is for our mortal well being more than our eternal -- excepting of course the bleeding of the related lack of self control into other more weighty matters.

Edited July 15, 2015 by The Folk Prophet

[Blackmarch]

Spirit of the law word of wisdom problems are different, of course, than the strict letter of the law. The fact that some take in too much sugar, for example, steps on the toes of the spirit of the word of wisdom. But doing so does not violate the letter of the law, nor does it keep one out of the temple.

 

Which leads one to wonder -- does violation of the spirit of the law of the word of wisdom jeopardize one's potential salvation? Particularly if one is not doing so rebelliously, but merely by human weakness (as in overeating and never exercising and the like). My inclination would be to say it does not, and that the spirit of the law is for our mortal well being more than our eternal -- excepting of course the bleeding of the related lack of self control into other more weighty matters.

As with any sin- it can (in this case any addiction) as in it has the potential to, if a person comes to love something more than God then that will stop their progression. In relation to salvation.

however in relation to mortality the more immediate issue is that not keeping the word of wisdom affects our ability to be able to have the spirit, as well as degrade our physical preparedness to do physical work for the Lord.

IN this person case it occured on teh mission and was getting to a point where it would have adversely affected his ability to do the lord's work. (more of the latter issue than related to salvation in the eternities one).

the last few verses in section 89 are really the foundation for the word of wisdom- anything that comes between us and being able to recieve those covenants and blessings is against the word of wisdom.

[Catlick]

I've been struggling with the no coffee doctrine myself. I ended up ordering some "herbal coffee" from Amazon called Teechino, and it is so good! It is nutty, with a rich flavor that goes great with milk. It's made with chicory and other herbs and has no caffeine. I was enjoying it when I realized that the only thing missing was the caffeine, and that is was still a "hot drink," and did I just skirt the law? Is herbal tea and fake coffee just a loophole for folks like me who need a substitute if we're going to give up the real thing? What essentially happens is that I have a new hot drink to enjoy in the morning. The fact that its not technically coffee seems arbitrary.

 

That is what causes my confusion. The original WoW mentions "hot drinks," which I consider pretty vague. Does that mean that iced coffee or iced tea is fine? Was it referring to caffeine, or to the rowdy crowds' particular tastes that got tobacco and alcohol banned in the Church in the first place? How essential is not drinking coffee to my salvation? It seems so trivial, and I struggle with it.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Catlick

[pam]

Hot drinks has been defined as coffee and tea.  And no.  Ice tea and ice coffees are not okay.

[ztodd]

Hey ya'll, just popping in after a couple years :) ... I don't know anything about herbal coffee- didn't know it existed- but we like herbal tea.  There should be nothing wrong with an herbal tea.

[The Folk Prophet]

I've been struggling with the no coffee doctrine myself. I ended up ordering some "herbal coffee" from Amazon called Teechino, and it is so good! It is nutty, with a rich flavor that goes great with milk. It's made with chicory and other herbs and has no caffeine. I was enjoying it when I realized that the only thing missing was the caffeine, and that is was still a "hot drink," and did I just skirt the law? Is herbal tea and fake coffee just a loophole for folks like me who need a substitute if we're going to give up the real thing? What essentially happens is that I have a new hot drink to enjoy in the morning. The fact that its not technically coffee seems arbitrary.

 

That is what causes my confusion. The original WoW mentions "hot drinks," which I consider pretty vague. Does that mean that iced coffee or iced tea is fine? Was it referring to caffeine, or to the rowdy crowds' particular tastes that got tobacco and alcohol banned in the Church in the first place? How essential is not drinking coffee to my salvation? It seems so trivial, and I struggle with it.

 

The current "letter of the law" only includes coffee and tea -- not herbal drinks of other sorts (unless they're "mind altering" in some way).

 

As to the spirit of the law, I suppose it would come down to why one is using said drinks. I suppose there may be a case to be made against using herbal coffee as a morning sub for coffee....maybe... But there's also a case to be made against using words like dang, heck, gosh, frick, and the like... I say "dang it" all the time though. Hmm.

 

I dunno though. I don't know much about herbal coffee. Sounds pretty innocent.

 

I guess the same could be asked about using non-alcoholic beer.

 

Incidentally -- just to be clear -- caffeine is not the point of no coffee (at least not fully -- may play a part of course), as decaff is still well within the no-no bounds of the WoW.

[hagoth]

...I dunno though. I don't know much about herbal coffee. Sounds pretty innocent...

 

Perhaps. I would suggest a closer look at the flavor ingredients.

 

New Guy, for what it's worth, have you given Pero and Postum a try? According to wikipedia: "Postum was popular with members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and part of Mormon culture for many years because they abstain from coffee." Our family drank Pero and Postum when I was a kid. I have no idea whether they taste anything like coffee, but I liked them.

 

If you can't find and try them in your local store, you can order them online, even at Amazon.

 

That said, the flavor thing may be no bigger an issue than coffee-flavored ice cream. If so, this whole thing would be entirely up to your discretion.

Edited July 19, 2015 by hagoth

[Backroads]

My husband learned on his mission an odd fake coffee: use burned tortillas. It's not half-bad.

[cdowis]

When I joined the church many years ago, I went to a youth activity at the bowling alley.  I remember how I sat down and ordered a Coke.

"Oh, no, Coke has caffeine and we can't drink that", my friend told me.

So we both ordered a Dr. Pepper.

 

Years later I found out that Dr. Pepper had more caffeine than a Coca Cola.

[Vort]

My husband learned on his mission an odd fake coffee: use burned tortillas. It's not half-bad.

 

Doesn't soud half-bad. Sounds more like all bad.

[Guest MormonGator]

I agree it doesn't sound very appealing to me either, but I'm adventurous. I'll be the guinea pig and give it a shot. 

[Guest]

I agree it doesn't sound very appealing to me either, but I'm adventurous. I'll be the guinea pig and give it a shot. 

 

There's rice coffee in the Philippines advertised as "The Perfect Blend for healthy and aromatic coffee. It made from specially chosen hybrid rice locally grown in the municipality of Banna.  Roasted to golden brown,  then powdered to bring you that instant healthy coffee in your cup you enjoy without fuss, Natural-Caffeine-free.. No preservative."

 

[Guest MormonGator]

There's rice coffee in the Philippines advertised as "The Perfect Blend for healthy and aromatic coffee. It made from specially chosen hybrid rice locally grown in the municipality of Banna.  Roasted to golden brown,  then powdered to bring you that instant healthy coffee in your cup you enjoy without fuss, Natural-Caffeine-free.. No preservative."

 

 Wow! Thank you for sharing that. I know of a few converts who miss the morning coffee.

 

I don't miss the coffee, I miss the tea. And cigars. Don't get me wrong, I don't drink tea or smoke cigars anymore, but I do miss them. 

[Just_A_Guy]

When I was a missionary in Brazil I developed a habit of drinking "cevada"--a coffee-substitute made from ground, roasted barley.  I'd mix in some powdered milk and just a hint of cinnamon . . .

 

Of course, having been raised a Mormon, I have no idea how it compares to coffee.  But it smelled awfully similar.

[Guest]

We have a traditional drink in my island called Sikwate that even toddlers drink.  It is usually served with puto (sweet sticky rice) and mangoes.  Sikwate is made using tableya and tableya is also used to make champurado which is a rice porridge that we eat for breakfast.  Tableya is roasted cocoa beans molded into a tablet.

 

Sikwate and champurado are so rich though that it tastes bitter just like coffee.  So when I got baptized LDS, I asked my husband if sikwate is considered hot drink like coffee.  He said no, so I still enjoy the sikwate and champurado that my mom makes for me.  It's hard to get that taste just right so I haven't successfully made both myself.

Edited July 21, 2015 by anatess