a scenario

[askandanswer]

See below

Edited October 5, 2015 by askandanswer

[askandanswer]

Obviously you have some purpose for asking these questions with these scriptural verses referenced that you're wanting us to get at. What is this purpose? Do you feel you have a personal experience similar to this that you need an answer to? Or a friend that had a similar situation? None of us can determine the outcome of any individual. To try to do so is to have the mind of God, which is not even possible. He is all knowing. We are not. 

 

I'm just not sure what you're getting at here. 

 

It comes down to a question of scriptural interpretation. The scriptures teach that sin makes us unclean and no unclean can dwell in the kingdom of God. They teach that lieing, in the first scenario, or violence and anger, in the second scenario, are types of sin, although perhaps in the first scenario, no lie was told. They teach that we need to repent of our sins in this life and that unrepented sin can keep us from returning to live in the presence of God. So I'm wondering, what happens when a person who has been good all of their life does something we would normally think of as bad, and then dies without repenting of it. Some scriptures seem to suggest that this person, because of his unrepented sin, would not be able to return to God's presence. This sounds somewhat unfair, and inconsistent with our natural sense of justice, but it seems to be what the scriptures are saying. So how do we interpret those scriptures that support the idea violence is sin, sin that is not repented of makes us unclean, and no unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God?.  

[BeccaKirstyn]

I'm by no means a scripture master or even incredibly knowledgable about the gospel (I believe I have a very firm understanding of the doctrines of the gospel but I am young and still have so much to learn), but I think you are forgetting about the place between this life and the next. When we die, we go to a temporary state of "paradise" or "spirit prison" (D&C 138). Repentance is not only for our Earth life. We are capable of repentance in while in this spirit world after we die. You are not "eternally damned" for a sin committed at the point of your death, as you're referring to. I believe, at least from my understanding of the spirit world, that we have the opportunity to repent of those sins, just like every other person does who did not have the gospel in their lives. 

[BeccaKirstyn]

We must always remember, God wants to save ALL of His children. Not just "a few of them" (a quote from the Restoration movie). He wants to provide every way possible for the process of repentance. 

[askandanswer]

I'm frankly sad for you, if you think He would take these small moments, without context or any sort of mercy, and use them as the measure of what a man is. I just don't see any evidence that He operates like that.

Lol, no need to be sad Eowyn, this is not what I think. I often word my posts in such a way as to avoid stating what I think because I don't want my opinion to restrict or overly influence the course of a discussion. I'm not trying to persuade anyone of a particular viewpoint here, I'm simply looking around for further light and knowledge. Additionally, there are many things about which I do not have a firm opinion and having too firm a view on some matters can sometimes inhibit further learning or get in the way of what could be a fruitful discussion. Many things discussed in this forum come down to an answer that is either more likely or less likely, rather than any definite conclusion. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am asking questions, not stating positions. If I get some well thought out responses, with good structure and lots of support, then I will have a better idea of what to think.

 

The evidence that might perhaps lead one to think that God operates in the manner I have suggested is the scriptures I have referred to, although I realise that there are other scriptures that could be used quite effectively to support a counter-argument. So it gets back to a question of scriptural interpretation.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Lol, no need to be sad Eowyn, this is not what I think. I often word my posts in such a way as to avoid stating what I think because I don't want my opinion to restrict or overly influence the course of a discussion.

 

You might want to be more clear about that in the future, because I was also under the impression that that was what you thought and finding out that it isn't your opinion, after the fact is bothersome. 

 

Changing the scenario doesn't change my answer at all.   I also like BeccaKirstyn's response about the Spirit World.  We don't know how things work after this life, but there is clearly some hope otherwise why do temple work for the dead?

[askandanswer]

You might want to be more clear about that in the future, because I was also under the impression that that was what you thought and finding out that it isn't your opinion, after the fact is bothersome. 

 

Changing the scenario doesn't change my answer at all.   I also like BeccaKirstyn's response about the Spirit World.  We don't know how things work after this life, but there is clearly some hope otherwise why do temple work for the dead?

 

I'm sorry Parakeet, I didn't mean to be bothersome. What I think rarely matters because what I think often changes and my viewpoint is just one amongst millions. If I'm trying to argue in favour of a particular view then I will often give an indication of what I think. If I'm seeking additional understanding, I'm more likely to ask questions rather than state positions. 

 

I also like Becca's response but I was also initially concerned about Alma 34: 31 - 33. 

 

31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.

 

 32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

 

 33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

 

This seems to suggest that there might be some difficulties with the idea of post-life repentance as Becca suggested, and that here and now seem to be the time when repentance needs to be done. However, I read a little further and found verse 34:

 

 34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

 

This verse seems to suggest that it is the spirit which possesses our bodies at the time of death which will make the difference in the next life, rather than individual acts which may or may not be sinful, depending on the context. The man in my scenario seems to have been possessed of a goodly spirit throughout his life, and that is the spirit that, according to Alma, will make the difference in the next life. So now I have an understanding that I think I can at least partially rely on in answer to the question of what will happen to the man in the scenario.

 

However, I'm still sort of stuck on the question of how we should understand the various scriptures that I have referred to. For example, it seems plain that in this case, the anger and violence shown by this man after the car accident are indeed contrary to Christ's teachings, but he still gets to heaven because of the goodly nature of the spirit that possessed his body at the time of his death, and his chances of exhaltation are not ruled out because of a few small unrepented acts. So in what circumstances do these various teachings apply, and what are the exceptions? And how do we know, when reading the scriptures on a particular teaching, when that teaching will apply, and when it will not? 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

 

I'm sorry Parakeet, I didn't mean to be bothersome. What I think rarely matters because what I think often changes and my viewpoint is just one amongst millions. If I'm trying to argue in favour of a particular view then I will often give an indication of what I think. If I'm seeking additional understanding, I'm more likely to ask questions rather than state positions. . . .

in what circumstances do these various teachings apply, and what are the exceptions? And how do we know, when reading the scriptures on a particular teaching, when that teaching will apply, and when it will not? 

 

 

Thanks for clarifying.  That does make sense.  It's a reasonable thing to do.  When I said "bothersome" (isn't that an old word, LOL) I was searching for a word to mean mild.  :)  Now that I understand better, I'm no longer bothered by your approach.

 

I've pondered about your last two questions as well.  For example, in one place in the scriptures having many wives is acceptable and in another it is an abomination.  We often hear quoted the scripture " . . . of you it is required to forgive all men."  but there is also D&C 98:44 But if he trespass against thee the fourth time thou shalt not forgive him, but shalt bring these testimonies before the Lord; "

 

So what are we to do?  I think first of all we should take care never to try and use a scripture to excuse bad behavior.  For example in the scriptures I shared, if one uses the second to excuse not forgiving, without also taking the matter to the Lord, but just using it to nurse old wounds...then that is a warning sign.  Second I think we need should rely on the Holy Ghost to guide us in knowing which scripture applies to our current situation.  Finally, we also have the words of our living prophet and other leaders to guide us.  For example, for the Saints of Brigham Young's day polygamy was acceptable, for us it is not.  When I made my comments earlier about grace I was thinking of the clarification we were given on this topic by Elder Uchtorf in the April conference.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I just came across this quote and thought of this discussion:

 

Neal A. Maxwell said, “Cluster your scriptures together. Your scriptures of the Church need each other, they help each other. Cluster the scriptures topically as if they were a bunch of grapes from which you can squeeze all the juice and distill all the meaning.”

 

Maybe the answer to your questions

 

So in what circumstances do these various teachings apply, and what are the exceptions? And how do we know, when reading the scriptures on a particular teaching, when that teaching will apply, and when it will not? 

 

 

Could be answered by clustering i.e cross referencing with other scriptures and words of our Leaders. 

[Blackmarch]

Consider the following scenario:

 

A young man completes an honourable mission. A year or two later he is married in the temple. Some time later, after having served as an Elders Quorum President, he is called as a bishop. A short time after being released as bishop he is called as a Stake President. Shortly after retiring from work, he and his wife go on a mission. Not long after they finish their mission, they become temple workers. Finally, he is called to his last calling, as stake Patriarach. One day, while he and his wife are preparing to go to a mission reunion, she turns to him and says “do I look good in this dress”? She doesn’t but as he has said a thousand times throughout their marriage, he says she looks beautiful. On the way to the reunion, he is killed in a car crash.

 

Consider the following scriptures:

 (Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 9:34)

34  Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.

 (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 82:7)

7  And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 1:31)

31  For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;

(Old Testament | Ezekiel 18:24)

4 ¶ But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live?  All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

Having stated an untruth to his wife shortly before he died, something that he has done repeatedly throughout his life, and not having repented of it, what will be the fate of this humble, obedient servant of God in the next life? Was it a sin to tell his wife something that he knew was not true in the hope that she would believe it? Did he lie? Will God overlook it? Can he repent in the next life of things done here? Is it the case, as D&C 82 suggests that that by repeating an action that may be sinful that he has done repeatedly throughout his life, that his formers sin shall return, and as Ezekiel suggests, will all his righteousness not be mentioned? What will happen to this man?

He'd better repent before his wife gets there.

[Guest]

I didn't read all the responses.  I did read both the first scenario of the OP and the last scenario about punching some guy on the face...

 

Okay, here goes.

 

If you're Catholic - you're in trouble.  Because, in Catholicism, repentance ends at death.  That's why, Last Rites are very important... the chance of repentance before drawing your last breath.

 

But you're LDS.  Death is not the end.  Repentance and acceptance of Christ's Atonement with the desire to align one's will to God's continues into the Spirit World.  So yes, even those who have not had the opportunity to repent in mortality and abide by the ordinances of the gospel will have the chance after death.  Life goes on.

[omegaseamaster75]

Sounds like you guys are making a big deal about nothing. I know how I would have handled it.

 

Same scenario except it is me and Mrs Omega.

 

 

Mrs. Omega: Do I look fat in this dress?

 

Omegaseamaster75: You've looked fatter in other dresses.

 

We die in car crash, all is well because I didn't lie.

[theSQUIDSTER]

askandanswer,

I think you're overthinking this.

If repentance and forgiveness were only about taking all the right steps and completing a checklist before we die then we'd ALL most certainly be doomed.

Do we even KNOW all the sins we commit? How many people have we hurt without even knowing it? Are we responsible for such things? Is anyone? What about when we hurt ourselves? Knowingly or unknowingly, do we even have that right? I think that if the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance then ALL sin has to be considered.. Even the sin that none of us sees. It ALL matters!

So what happens to each of us when we leave this life with all that sin that we couldn't see..?

The answer is so simple that even a child can understand it:

Our Lord and Savior has already paid for ALL of it... Every last nano-smidgen off sin! It's up to Him what happens to each of us.

Does He have the right to forgive our sins?

Edited October 5, 2015 by theSQUIDSTER

[askandanswer]

 

But you're LDS.  Death is not the end.  Repentance and acceptance of Christ's Atonement with the desire to align one's will to God's continues into the Spirit World.  So yes, even those who have not had the opportunity to repent in mortality and abide by the ordinances of the gospel will have the chance after death.  Life goes on.

Certainly it is the case that those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel in this life will have the opportunity to hear and accept it in the next life. But I'm having a bit of trouble remembering those scriptures which support the idea that those who accepted the gospel in this life can still repent of their sins in the next life. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Then answer you are looking for is 1 Peter 4:8

 

"And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins."

[BeccaKirstyn]

The whole purpose of us being on Earth is the all encompassing love that our Father in Heaven has for us. He placed his Beloved Son here to be crucified and bleed from every pore so that we may be forgiven of our sins and one day return to His presence. Why would the "end all be all" of repentance be the end of our physical life? I am no scripture master so I would have to do my own researching to find a scripture to back up my statement, but I cannot and will not believe that this loving Father in Heaven will not allow those who know of the gospel truths to repent in the life here after. He is justice, but he provided us mercy. I believe that mercy started in the pre-existence, and follows us into our next life. 

[BeccaKirstyn]

We know we are still able to sin after we die, because we still have our agency in paradise and prison. We are not in a state of perfection. The atonement was made so that sin could be forgiven, so repentance must be available to us in the spirit world. 


In D&C 138 it talks much about repentance in the spirit world: 

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead.

 58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,

 59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.

I can't imagine that verse 58 is only reserved to those who haven't heard the fruits of the gospel. The whole point is that they hear the gospel, repent of their ways, and accept it's truths. And then their work is done for them here on Earth. We continually go through this same cycle as members. We sin, remember the truths of the gospel as if they were re-taught to us, we repent of our sins, and accept our baptismal promise again. 

[askandanswer]

Thank you Becca, this is helpful.

[The Folk Prophet]

but I cannot and will not believe 

 

As soon as someone drops this phrase I can't help but wonder...  but what if you're wrong? Are you so determined in your own philosophies, understanding, and mortal views of how it all works that you would cast off your own salvation rather than accept a different view?

 

We know we are still able to sin after we die, because we still have our agency in paradise and prison. 

 

I'll grant that this is an interesting idea. However, I've never seen any theory or scripture that implies one, having been righteous and having done all required of them in this life, might still fall after this life. Nor have I read anywhere that teaches that those who have opportunity in this life but denied it will still have opportunity in the next life.

 

We are not in a state of perfection. 

 

And yet, this is true, and we will grow and learn line upon line until we reach perfection. So...  Well, interesting.

 

I can't imagine that verse 58 is only reserved to those who haven't heard the fruits of the gospel. 

 

Why not, when this is as likely it's meaning as anything?

 

59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.

 

This verse seems to imply that regardless of post mortal said repentance, they will still be sent to the Telestial or Terrestrial kingdoms if their works so indicate. Which might well mean that repentance may be required for all who go to any kingdom of glory, but post mortal repentance does not qualify one for the inheritance of the Celestial, (unless one didn't have the opportunity in this life, of course).

 

As to other scriptures, are we to cast off Alma 12:24

 

"And we see that death comes upon mankind, yea, the death which has been spoken of by Amulek, which is the temporal death; nevertheless there was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead."

 

And Alma 34:32-35

 

"32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.

 

"33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

 

"34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

 

"35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked."

 

And Helaman 13:38

 

"But behold, your days of probation are past; ye have procrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure; yea, for ye have sought all the days of your lives for that which ye could not obtain; and ye have sought for happiness in doing iniquity, which thing is contrary to the nature of that righteousness which is in our great and Eternal Head."

 

And D&C 45:2

 

"And again I say, hearken unto my voice, lest death shall overtake you; in an hour when ye think not the summer shall be past, and the harvest ended, and your souls not saved."

 

So whereas I admit that your thinking has some interest behind it, the scriptures, overall, seem to teach fairly clearly that if we do not repent in this life if we have the opportunity and knowledge to do so, then it is too late.

[Vort]

I've never seen any theory or scripture that implies one, having been righteous and having done all required of them in this life, might still fall after this life.

 

Elder McConkie was known to use the phrase "safely dead" in reference to this topic. I don't think he originated the expression.

[BeccaKirstyn]

I'm not skilled in how to do multiple quotes from one post so I'll just copy and paste each thing I'm replying to.

"As soon as someone drops this phrase I can't help but wonder...  but what if you're wrong? Are you so determined in your own philosophies, understanding, and mortal views of how it all works that you would cast off your own salvation rather than accept a different view?"

 

I would not call it my own philosophies. I'm grounding my testimony in the scriptures and revelations I've received. Would I call it my testimony? Yes. Can my testimony be changed? Well of course. That's how I continue to progress. For now, I believe that we all have the ability to repent in the next life. Can that change? Yes, just like any part of my testimony can change. 

 

"I'll grant that this is an interesting idea. However, I've never seen any theory or scripture that implies one, having been righteous and having done all required of them in this life, might still fall after this life. Nor have I read anywhere that teaches that those who have opportunity in this life but denied it will still have opportunity in the next life."

 

Which is why I did not support my thought with a scripture. It's just a theoretical thought that I've come upon due to our understanding of our ability to have agency in the pre-existence. I think that's the whole point of this discussion--finding scriptural references for such a thought/idea. 

 

"Why not, when this is as likely it's meaning as anything?"

 

Well then I'll pose to you, why can't it mean something beyond what it's surface structure says? I think it can go both ways. 

 

"This verse seems to imply that regardless of post mortal said repentance, they will still be sent to the Telestial or Terrestrial kingdoms if their works so indicate. Which might well mean that repentance may be required for all who go to any kingdom of glory, but post mortal repentance does not qualify one for the inheritance of the Celestial, (unless one didn't have the opportunity in this life, of course)."

 

I wasn't implying that post mortal repentance qualifies you for Celestial glory. No one knows or can make that decision for any one of us, except God. I'm simply talking about the idea posed by OP about repentance in the life hereafter. 

 

As for the scriptures you posted, the OP was specifically asking about a scenario in which someone dies in the state of sin in which they didn't have the opportunity to repent for. So that's why I referred to the scriptures that I did. We know that this life is the time to repent and we should NOT procrastinate repentance. 

[SGoodman]

This scenario is based, in my opinion, on a misunderstanding of the purpose of obedience to the commandments.

We don't obey the commandments, including the commandment to repent, in order to qualify for heaven. Other than the Sons of Perdition, we are all bound for heaven.

We don't obey the commandments in order to "qualify" for a higher kingdom in heaven. We will end up in the kingdom we are best suited for.

We obey the commandments because that is the mechanism for the change that Jesus promised us.

Ezekiel 36:26

Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

2 Cor 5:17

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Following the principles of the Gospel and obeying the commandments is how these changes come about.

I always wanted to be a pianist (not really, this is just an example). To become a pianist I need to obey certain principles, primary among them is I need to practice the piano. Every hour of practice brings me closer to being a pianist.

I was, long ago, a very angry young man. If I want to be loving and kind it isn't enough just to repent of having yelled at my kids on Thursday morning. It takes practice. In my case it took years, but I'm not that same angry guy.

Take those examples and stretch them to cover every aspect of becoming godly and divine.

So this scenario is based on the idea that there was a sin that needed repenting of in order to "qualify" for ....whatever. Did this particular sin define this individual? Was he one to act in haste, thoughtlessly? If he was, then repenting of this single instance wouldn't have altered who he was. If he was not, then this single misstep was out of character for him.

God will be judging us on who we have become and occurrences like this scenario will only serve as examples and anecdotes relating to that, rather than as barriers to entry to be checked off one by one.

[The Folk Prophet]

I'm not skilled in how to do multiple quotes from one post so I'll just copy and paste each thing I'm replying to.

 

If it's multiple quotes from the same post, just click quote, erase what you don't want. Then when you want to quote more, put the cursor where you want it in your reply (probably at the end), click quote again, and delete what you don't want.

 

I would not call it my own philosophies. I'm grounding my testimony in the scriptures and revelations I've received. Would I call it my testimony? Yes. Can my testimony be changed? Well of course. That's how I continue to progress. For now, I believe that we all have the ability to repent in the next life. Can that change? Yes, just like any part of my testimony can change. 

 

It's just that the phrase I quoted implies an unwillingness to ever change. So perhaps it was simply stated, or I read it, differently than you intended. I get that.

 

Which is why I did not support my thought with a scripture. It's just a theoretical thought that I've come upon due to our understanding of our ability to have agency in the pre-existence. 

 

But applying the realities of the pre-existence to the realities of the post-existence doesn't necessarily follow.

 

Well then I'll pose to you, why can't it mean something beyond what it's surface structure says? I think it can go both ways. 

 

Huh? I do not know what you are referring to specifically. Please clarify. What is "it"? What is "something"? What surface structure do you mean?

 

I wasn't implying that post mortal repentance qualifies you for Celestial glory. No one knows or can make that decision for any one of us, except God. I'm simply talking about the idea posed by OP about repentance in the life hereafter. 

 

It strikes me that the OP was asking about the state of said person related to Celestial glory. As he made efforts to describe one who lived a life to qualify for Celestial glory, but then at the very end of his life made a mistake just before death, the obvious question, as I read it, is whether he thereby forfeits Celestial glory.

 

I don't believe that such a thing would, by default, cause the loss of Celestial glory. But I don't believe it is because one who is procrastinates repentance in this life will have the opportunity to do so in the next. The scriptures are pretty clear on this.

 

As for the scriptures you posted, the OP was specifically asking about a scenario in which someone dies in the state of sin in which they didn't have the opportunity to repent for. So that's why I referred to the scriptures that I did. We know that this life is the time to repent and we should NOT procrastinate repentance. 

 

I don't know that I have the specific answer to the OP (nor, do I think, anyone does), but I don't think D&C 138 is relative. It is, in my opinion, very clearly talking about those who have not had the opportunity to repent in this life.

 

I don't entirely disagree with the fact that repentance is unavailable in the next life. And I do think that a man who dies in a mistake but who is otherwise striving to do as he must will be able to repent and continue on to exaltation. But I think that relates to the fact that we will be judged on our intentions - the state of our hearts -- more than the specifics. Take for example someone who is repenting, but hasn't yet fully achieved it completely...but they're honestly humbling themselves and trying their very best...but then they die. Same thing, right? Are they doomed?

 

I am not trying to contend that such a case would bring eternal damnation. What I am contending against, which I believe your post implied very strongly, is that those who have procrastinated the day of their repentance, upon changing their minds after death, will still have the opportunity to repent. Once more, if you didn't mean to say this, it certainly came across to me as if you did mean just this in your post. And it is this idea that I posted the scriptures in response to. I also disagree that no one knows this but God. We know what God has revealed to us, and he has revealed this to us, quite plainly. That doesn't mean we know the state of any individual or can judge them. But we can, by principle, clearly state that those who procrastinate the day of their repentance will lose the opportunity to repent if they die in their sins.

 

Another scripture for consideration:

 

Alma 20:17

 

"But Ammon stood forth and said unto him: Behold, thou shalt not slay thy son; nevertheless, it were better that he should fall than thee, for behold, he has repented of his sins; but if thou shouldst fall at this time, in thine anger, thy soul could not be saved."

[askandanswer]

Thank you TFP

[mrmarklin]

The idea that what this man said is any sort of sin is ludicrous and dignifies no reply.