Will polygamy be re-instituted after plagues of the last days wipe out a lot of the earth's population?

[nuclearfuels]

On 7/18/2016 at 5:52 PM, Zarahemla said:

The following LDS prophets are sealed in polygamous sealings: Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, Lorenzo Snow, Joseph F Smith, Heber J Grant, Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B Lee, and Howard W Hunter. The only prophets sealed to only 1 woman are George Albert Smith, David O McKay, Spencer W Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Gordon B Hinckley, and Thomas S Monson. The next 2 senior apostles in line to be prophet, Russell M Nelson and Dallin H Oaks are both in polygamous sealings. So 10 out of the 16 prophets are in polygamous sealings and so are the next 2 in line to be prophet.

Well said.

Facts can be such stubborn things, to some people.

On 7/19/2016 at 8:51 PM, MormonGator said:

 People online need to memorize this. 

Do you want to say to someone-is this how you live your life offline? Are you this rude? This argumentative? You can't be. If you were, you'd have no friends, much less a spouse. 

unless of course, such an one enjoyed being friendless and spouse-less

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

unless of course, such an one enjoyed being friendless and spouse-less

Absolutely. Some people certainly enjoy being by themselves and there is nothing wrong with that. However that still doesn't give them a right to be rude to everyone else. 

[nuclearfuels]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Absolutely. Some people certainly enjoy being by themselves and there is nothing wrong with that. However that still doesn't give them a right to be rude to everyone else. 

Zil and Big Z are terms of endearment. 

When did everyone get so touchy around here?

And, to redirect, I think polyamory will be legalized and plural marriage re-instituted before the Millennium.

[nuclearfuels]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Absolutely. Some people certainly enjoy being by themselves and there is nothing wrong with that. However that still doesn't give them a right to be rude to everyone else. 

Zil and Big Z are terms of endearment. 

When did everyone get so touchy around here?

And, to redirect, I think polyamory will be legalized and plural marriage re-instituted before the Millennium.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

 Big Z 

Basic rule in life: Women generally don't like being called "Big" than the first letter of their name. I'm sure there are exceptions but I can't imagine calling a female friend named Jennifer "Big J". Or calling Amanda "Big A." 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Basic rule in life: Women generally don't like being called "Big" than the first letter of their name. I'm sure there are exceptions but I can't imagine calling a female friend named Jennifer "Big J". Or calling Amanda "Big A." 

Unless you're jonesing for a roundhouse kick to the face.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Unless you're jonesing for a roundhouse kick to the face.

So, Elizabeth-May I call you Big E? Ow! My head! 

[zil]

9 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Unless you're jonesing for a roundhouse kick to the face.

That made me laugh out loud, literally.

[classylady]

If polygamy is reinstated I believe some women in the church wouldn't mind sharing their husband. But, I also see many women not wanting to be in such a relationship. Culturally, women have changed so much since polygamy was instituted in the 1800's. Now days, women expect to be an equal partner in the marriage, not the property of their husband. My opinion is that it would be much harder to institute polygamy in our current cultural situation. Women want and expect emotional commitment/security and to be their husband's number-one. Now days, outside of the church, if a woman desires to have a child she can find a donor without being married. Our cultural is so different from the 1800's.

[askandanswer]

On 7/18/2016 at 4:39 AM, nuclearfuels said:

Aw, sweet, dear Zil - may I call you Zilly or Big Z?

I

Zounds like a zilly question to me

[askandanswer]

On 7/14/2016 at 3:54 AM, nuclearfuels said:

My father was often called a prophet, and years ago in Nauvoo I heard him predict that it would yet become a law of this nation that men should marry a plurality of wives.

 

A silly four line syllogism suggesting that at some point, plural marriage will be reintroduced followed by a more reasonable reply:

1. I am married

2. It would be severally unjust if God disallowed any other woman from marrying me

3. God is not unjust

4. Therefore, at some point, polygamy will recommence

I admit there might be one, possibly even two exceptions to the specific example above. However, I think that the following general principle holds true: Subject to the great and eternal laws of justice and free agency, I cannot see that a loving Father in heaven would disallow or prevent an action  - in this case, a plural marriage - that would stop His righteous children from carrying out the desires of their hearts. I suspect that this general principle of allowing all sorts of actions as long as they do not violate these two laws holds true not just for plural marriage, but for other types of actions as well.

As to whether or not the recommencement of plural marriage will occur in mortality or post-mortality, I see that as an irrelevant detail as I believe that the timing of the recommencement probably makes no difference to the underlying principle of plural marriage or the manner in which it will be practiced.

Edited July 23, 2016 by askandanswer
corrected grammatical error

[Sunday21]

On July 16, 2016 at 10:45 PM, Traveler said:

A note about polygamy.  My great grandfather was instructed to live polygamy - he was not happy about it but did so because he was commanded by a prophet.  But he also wrote in his personal journal that many leaders in the Church (mostly at stake and ward levels) were abusing the commandment and as a result he prophesied that not only would the commandment of polygamy be taken from the earth but that the Church would come under great condemnation for the abuses.   I believe there is enough abuse in our current marriage covenants - that if anything - blessing will be taken from our generation - not added.

 

The Traveler

Intriguing! Any plans to publish that journal?

[Blackmarch]

On 7/22/2016 at 2:16 PM, MormonGator said:

So, Elizabeth-May I call you Big E? Ow! My head! 

Think that one is reserved for the Enterprise

[Guest]

On 7/22/2016 at 0:38 PM, nuclearfuels said:

Well said.

Facts can be such stubborn things, to some people.

What does that mean?

[Guest]

On 7/22/2016 at 3:15 PM, Eowyn said:

Unless you're jonesing for a roundhouse kick to the face.

The Shield-Maiden of Rohan hath spoken!!!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Blackmarch said:

Think that one is reserved for the Enterprise

Galaxy Class, that is.

[Traveler]

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 6:14 AM, Edspringer said:

Very nice information, Traveler. Thanx for sharing.

I wish I could get more information on the matter from you, since you have an ancestor who was commanded to live polygamy. Can you fill us in with more details, if possible?

I believe, like you, that in our generation many things will be taken from us due to the lack of faith, especially among us saints. 

 

Let me provide some context.  My great grandfather was very much in love with his wife and her with him.  There are many touching stories about their tenderness and devotions towards each other.  Those that have looked at pictures of their ancestors that lived in the 1800’s are often amused by their stoic and plain poses.  My great grandfather was no stunningly hansom fellow but from photos my great grandmother was an exceptional beauty.  Not just in her time but even by today’s standards.   Not only was she a stunning beauty but she was well educated, musically talented and an exceptional thinker for her time and circumstance.   Great grandfather was a lot like Lehi of old – a very successful business man and served as the executive secretary (equal to CEO) of one of the Churches most successful United Orders.

Great grandfather and his wife received commandment from the prophet Brigham Young to include another wife in their marriage.  The two privately met to discuss this commandment but great grandmother would have nothing of it.  To say she was furious would be a gross understatement.   She left the meeting with great grandfather and started walking from her home in Brigham City, Utah to Salt Lake City to meet personally with Brigham Young.  It is said that several passed by great grandmother on her way and offered to take her and save her walking.  She refused any help and snarled in return, “No thank you – I am in a hurry and cannot be bothered”. 

She reached Salt Lake City and went directly to the Church’s administration building east of the Salt Lake Temple.  She went straight to Brigham Young’s office ignoring those that said she could not enter Brigham’s private office with permission.  The story is that Brigham was busy and dismissed his guests to see great grandmother.  It was said her voice of anger could be heard though out the admin building and that Brigham quietly closed his office door.  Twenty minutes or so great grandmother left Brigham’s office a very changed lady.  There is no record what happened or what or who said anything.  But a definite change in great grandmother.  She was taken home by carriage and soon afterwards great grandfather took a second wife by his first wife’s demand.

However, great grandfather did record that there is a divine order to plural wives.  That it is the primary responsibility of the first wife preside over the consideration and the courtship of all additional wives.  That the first wife does not merely provide input but is the one to determine what women are considered and eventually allowed and that all other wives must sustain and support the first wife – or an additional wife should not be allowed.  Also that if there is divorce from a wife – it is initiated by the first wife.  But even then the choice to consider an additional wife is not a choice of either the husband or wife but can only come by commandment from the prophet that holds the designated keys.  And that the keys cannot be delegated but must remain exclusively by the Prophet and President of the first Quorum of the President.  In short the Prophet must give a command for a marriage to take and additional wife and then the first wife has the responsibility to determine who it will be.  Perhaps considering the wishes of her husband of who to consider but that she determine who and how the new wife is invited. 

It was the opinion of great grandfather that a husband seeking an additional wife without the knowledge and willing consent of the first wife was an act of adultery.  I am sure there is more to all this than what I have highlighted but that this is the essence of at least part of the law and commandment of plural marriage.

 

The Traveler

[Guest]

I think the only people that will have to worry about plural marriage are those whose spouse dies and they remarry in the temple and those who get divorced civilly and remarry in the temple. 

[Traveler]

7 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Intriguing! Any plans to publish that journal?

No it is expensive to publish.

 

the Traveler

[Edspringer]

4 hours ago, Traveler said:

 

Let me provide some context.  My great grandfather was very much in love with his wife and her with him.  There are many touching stories about their tenderness and devotions towards each other.  Those that have looked at pictures of their ancestors that lived in the 1800’s are often amused by their stoic and plain poses.  My great grandfather was no stunningly hansom fellow but from photos my great grandmother was an exceptional beauty.  Not just in her time but even by today’s standards.   Not only was she a stunning beauty but she was well educated, musically talented and an exceptional thinker for her time and circumstance.   Great grandfather was a lot like Lehi of old – a very successful business man and served as the executive secretary (equal to CEO) of one of the Churches most successful United Orders.

Great grandfather and his wife received commandment from the prophet Brigham Young to include another wife in their marriage.  The two privately met to discuss this commandment but great grandmother would have nothing of it.  To say she was furious would be a gross understatement.   She left the meeting with great grandfather and started walking from her home in Brigham City, Utah to Salt Lake City to meet personally with Brigham Young.  It is said that several passed by great grandmother on her way and offered to take her and save her walking.  She refused any help and snarled in return, “No thank you – I am in a hurry and cannot be bothered”. 

She reached Salt Lake City and went directly to the Church’s administration building east of the Salt Lake Temple.  She went straight to Brigham Young’s office ignoring those that said she could not enter Brigham’s private office with permission.  The story is that Brigham was busy and dismissed his guests to see great grandmother.  It was said her voice of anger could be heard though out the admin building and that Brigham quietly closed his office door.  Twenty minutes or so great grandmother left Brigham’s office a very changed lady.  There is no record what happened or what or who said anything.  But a definite change in great grandmother.  She was taken home by carriage and soon afterwards great grandfather took a second wife by his first wife’s demand.

However, great grandfather did record that there is a divine order to plural wives.  That it is the primary responsibility of the first wife preside over the consideration and the courtship of all additional wives.  That the first wife does not merely provide input but is the one to determine what women are considered and eventually allowed and that all other wives must sustain and support the first wife – or an additional wife should not be allowed.  Also that if there is divorce from a wife – it is initiated by the first wife.  But even then the choice to consider an additional wife is not a choice of either the husband or wife but can only come by commandment from the prophet that holds the designated keys.  And that the keys cannot be delegated but must remain exclusively by the Prophet and President of the first Quorum of the President.  In short the Prophet must give a command for a marriage to take and additional wife and then the first wife has the responsibility to determine who it will be.  Perhaps considering the wishes of her husband of who to consider but that she determine who and how the new wife is invited. 

It was the opinion of great grandfather that a husband seeking an additional wife without the knowledge and willing consent of the first wife was an act of adultery.  I am sure there is more to all this than what I have highlighted but that this is the essence of at least part of the law and commandment of plural marriage.

 

The Traveler

Thanx a lot! I really enjoyed it!

You must be proud of your ancestors. I would.

One thing is to read about plural marriage in Church published materials.  Something completely different (and very edifying) is to know of a real account like that of your great grandparents. 

No words to thank you.

[Jojo Bags]

I can't find the particular quote, but it's on Mormon Newsroom, (you can dig it  up if you want) but the Church made an official statement that polygamy was not a requirement to gain the Celestia; Kingdom.  Secondly, the statement also said that the reason for polygamy was to build up a righteous generation.  At the time of Joseph Smith, there were very few members and the hardships of the time, especially crossing the plains and setting up a new city killed off people in droves.  The Saints had to build up a righteous generation to make sure the Church would survive.  The next is speculation, but I think it makes sense.  Polygamy will not be required again because there will be enough members who will survive through to the Second Coming.  In his book, "The Great and Abominable Church of the Devil," Elder H. Verlan Andersen said that the parable of the ten virgins applied to the members of the Church who considered themselves to be "good" LDS.  That means that about 50% of the "good" members will survive.  If you look at the activity rate of the Church, which seems to be around 50%, that means that about 25% of members will survive, which as of December 31, 2015 was 15,634,199.  Do the math and about 3.9 million members will be alive at the time of Christ's coming.  I seriously doubt that the Church will be in danger of extinction, so, no, polygamy will not be required again.

[TurboGirl]

On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 1:10 PM, Traveler said:

 

  That it is the primary responsibility of the first wife preside over the consideration and the courtship of all additional wives.  That the first wife does not merely provide input but is the one to determine what women are considered and eventually allowed and that all other wives must sustain and support the first wife – or an additional wife should not be allowed.  Also that if there is divorce from a wife – it is initiated by the first wife.  But even then the choice to consider an additional wife is not a choice of either the husband or wife but can only come by commandment from the prophet that holds the designated keys.  And that the keys cannot be delegated but must remain exclusively by the Prophet and President of the first Quorum of the President.  In short the Prophet must give a command for a marriage to take and additional wife and then the first wife has the responsibility to determine who it will be.  Perhaps considering the wishes of her husband of who to consider but that she determine who and how the new wife is invited. 

It was the opinion of great grandfather that a husband seeking an additional wife without the knowledge and willing consent of the first wife was an act of adultery.  I am sure there is more to all this than what I have highlighted but that this is the essence of at least part of the law and commandment of plural marriage.

 

The Traveler

If the first wife presides over the consideration of additional wives, why are men now allowed to marry additional wives for all time and eternity after the first wife is dead? Plus they can do so without the Prophet asking them to.

Edited July 28, 2016 by TurboGirl

[Guest]

7 hours ago, TurboGirl said:

If the first wife presides over the consideration of additional wives, why are men now allowed to marry additional wives for all time and eternity after the first wife is dead? Plus they can do so without the Prophet asking them to.

That's an excellent question.

[estradling75]

8 hours ago, TurboGirl said:

If the first wife presides over the consideration of additional wives, why are men now allowed to marry additional wives for all time and eternity after the first wife is dead? Plus they can do so without the Prophet asking them to.

Because they aren't living polygamy in mortality... they are living monogamy and no permission is required (except from the Future Spouse).  For them to live polygamy in the eternity it has to be ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise (per the requirements in D&C 132)... And you can be guaranteed that will not happen unless all the other permissions are in place...

Thus no laws or rules are broken...  Only the potentiality of it is set up here.

 

[Traveler]

16 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Because they aren't living polygamy in mortality... they are living monogamy and no permission is required (except from the Future Spouse).  For them to live polygamy in the eternity it has to be ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise (per the requirements in D&C 132)... And you can be guaranteed that will not happen unless all the other permissions are in place...

Thus no laws or rules are broken...  Only the potentiality of it is set up here.

 

Well said - especially the reference to D&C 132.

 

The Traveler