Signs of the Times

[lds2]

Here is a great list made by some folks we all can agree with here...https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/signs-of-the-times?lang=eng

" Events or experiences that God gives to people to show that something important in his work has happened or will soon happen. In the latter days, many signs for the second coming of the Savior have been prophesied. These signals allow faithful people to recognize God’s plan, be warned, and prepare..." Continues on with list...
 

[Guest]

We've been in the 11th hour for a long time.

[zil]

12 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

We've been in the 11th hour for a long time.

Well, if we go with the idea of 7000 years and 12 hours, that makes each hour 583.33 years long.  With 6000 years and 11 hours, that's 545.45 years per hour.  So, you know, if we get to 2375 and the Lord hasn't come, we should probably start to worry...    In the meantime, the  wise choice is to do your very best.

[Guest MormonGator]

11 minutes ago, zil said:

  In the meantime, the  wise choice is to do your very best.

100% correct. Instead of worrying about end times-which you have no control over and no, you have no clue when they will happen and you can't read into ::ahem ::  "signs" ,  you should focus on your own salvation. Which you can control. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by MormonGator

[zil]

Of course, 6000 divided by 24 gives us 250, so 2080 might be the date to worry about.  Then again, I could get hit my a meteor any next second, so right now is probably a good time to worry about... I'm gonna go mow the lawn one last time before I die.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, zil said:

Of course, 6000 divided by 24 gives us 250, so 2080 might be the date to worry about.  Then again, I could get hit my a meteor any next second, so right now is probably a good time to worry about... I'm gonna go mow the lawn one last time before I die.

See, here's where we differ. My attitude would be, "Meteor? Sweet. I never have to mow my lawn again."

[zil]

4 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

See, here's where we differ. My attitude would be, "Meteor? Sweet. I never have to mow my lawn again."

Well, if I actually thought I was about to be hit by a meteor, I sure would NOT be mowing the lawn, but it's long overdue, and the meteor seems highly improbable, so off I go....

[zil]

NOTE: I'm teasing @Zarahemla a little bit.  And contrary to what @lds2 probably thinks from my posts I do believe in signs and the prophecies regarding signs, but I also believe in always doing the very best you can so that no matter what happens, you are always as well prepared as you personally know how to be (and I think the latter deserves much greater attention).

PPS: Normally, my lawn and I spend Family Home Evening together, but I was lazy yesterday, so now I'm really going...

[Larry Cotrell]

Matthew 24:42-44

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

 

[priesthoodpower]

We will all experience the end of times and the "Last days" ..its called death. If I got into a car crash and died tonight it was literally my "Last Day" and the Lord warned me to be prepared. In the past 20 years technology has doubled every 5 years and seems to be doubling even faster now. Humans still need a lot more advancing to do in way of feeding the entire earths population, energy and pollution efficiency, communications etc... all this advancing for the Human family is to assist The growth of the Kingdom of God and Missionary work. IMHO I think the return of Jesus to the Earth is still a couple of hundred of years away.

"Calamaties:Matt 24;" - have been happening since the beginning of man
" The wicked to slay the wicked:D&C63" - has been happening since the beginning of man
"War will be poured out upon all nations:D&C 87:2;" - has been happening since the beginning of man
"Men shall transgress the law and break the everlasting covenant:Isa. 24:5;" - has been happening since the beginning of man

and finally...

"Darkness to cover the earth:D&C 112:23–24;" - has been happening every night since the beginning of man

 

Dont hold your breath or stop living life. Get out there and be a light to others through service.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by priesthoodpower

[zil]

15 minutes ago, priesthoodpower said:

Get out there and be a light to others through service.

If you want to service my lawn, send me a PM.

[bytebear]

Just as I don't see the creation being done in 1000 year increments, I don't see the end times ending at exactly 1000 years.  I see them as periods of time, and not an exact measurement. I mean we had 33 years of Christ + maybe 200 years of the church (400 if you count the Nephites), and then 1600 years of apostasy before the restoration, so the timing doesn't seem remotely consistent. 

[Larry Cotrell]

There is no way to calculate when the second coming will take place. The Bible says that Jesus doesn't even know (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32). The Bible also says that He will come when we aren't expecting it (Matthew 24:4). 

Because of this, we need to live our lives as if His return will happen in in five or ten minutes-because it could. Followers of Christ are told to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19).  The field is ripe for harvest (John 4:35).

Instead of trying to figure out when He will return, those who follow Christ should focus on living their lives for Him and showing Him to other people. It doesn't matter when He'll come back. He's got it covered. I don't have to worry about that. What I do have to worry about is showing others the love of God and the way to salvation.

Focus on eternal things.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[captain moroni]

Here is another fascinating take on the speculation. Take the date of the restoration 1830 and solve for X...the eleventh hour from 1830 is 1996.  And yet another interesting angle...Take the confluence of Easter Morning, Passover Week and April 6th being Christ's date of birth, put them all on the same Sunday and you get April 6th 2042. 

There you have it. So much of Christ's coming, His life and acts were symbolic. Why not roll all of the symbolism into one great whole?  Now that I am done speculating, I have to return to cutting wood and hewing water. 

[mirkwood]

3 hours ago, zil said:

If you want to service my lawn, send me a PM.

mirkwood kidthing #2 might want a summer job.

[zil]

12 hours ago, zil said:

I'm gonna go mow the lawn one last time before I die.

And of course, this snarky comment was on my mind as I rode around the tree in the back yard.  What if this really were the last time I mowed my lawn before I die?  How would I think differently about that task?  Maybe we should do everything as if it were the last time we would get to do it before we die.

[Traveler]

 

I am somewhat amazed about the various attitudes of skepticism concerning the signs of the times.  Let me be very clear concerning my opinion – G-d would not tell us of the signs of the times if he did not want us to know of them.  Many have indicated that we should not speculate – and with this I agree but there is a very big difference in receiving revelation through the light and knowledge that come through the direction of the spirit and speculation.  And for the record; I think it is as wrong to speculate that the covenant saints will not know in advance what is to happen as it is to speculate that something is about to happen.

One of the big problems is that the prophetic nature of the signs are symbolic as well as the explanation we have in scripture of the signs.  Because the world does not understand divine symbolism many in the world do not understand or believe in the signs.  I personally believe that those that say no one can behold the signs and know of the coming of the Christ – which they do so because they have not received the spirit of G-d but rather; the spirit they have received is a counterfeit apostate spirit.  Just as the Pharisees did not comprehend the signs of the times of the first advent of Christ – many counterfeit believers will not comprehend the signs of the second advent of Christ.

I will give one little example – because the scripture prophetically say that no man will know the hour or the day – many believe that no one will know in the hours and days before he comes that the event of his coming is hours or days away.  I would point out to such skeptics that the modern world is comprised of time zones and an international date line.  There is no hour or day for the whole earth.  That if there was a prophesy that identified an hour or day – that for most of the earth such a prophesy would fail.

The final point I would make of the signs of the times is the same today as it was of old – even as Jesus spoke to his disciples and mocked the Pharisees as well as their equivalents in the Book of Mormon – so will things be in the last days.  The Saints will wait with great faith and anticipation but the world will mock the saints and the prophetic signs in unbelief, denial and confusion.

 

The Traveler

[Guest MormonGator]

24 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

I am somewhat amazed about the various attitudes of skepticism concerning the signs of the times.  Let me be very clear concerning my opinion – G-d would not tell us of the signs of the times if he did not want us to know of them. 

Obviously I only speak for myself, not everyone else who is skeptical. While I do believe we are in the latter days, I do not believe we know how long the latter days might be. I also don't believe that every eclipse and earthquake is a sign of armageddon. I believe they are natural events that have happened for the 4.5 billion years that the earth has been in existence. 

The fifth monarchists back in the 1600's also knew they were in the latter days and that Christ would be returning shortly. They had signs too. They knew they were right. Oops. 

Edited September 7, 2016 by MormonGator

[Traveler]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Obviously I only speak for myself, not everyone else who is skeptical. While I do believe we are in the latter days, I do not believe we know how long the latter days might be. The fifth monarchists back in the 1600's also knew they were in the latter days and that Christ would be returning shortly. They had signs too. They knew they were right. Oops. 

 

How much advance notice was Nephi given in the Book of Mormon to the first advent of Christ? 

As little as I know and understand - when two prophets are killed and left on the streets of Jerusalem - I will be able to tell you or anyone else that wants to know - easily within 24 hours - when the second coming will be.

 

The Traveler

[zil]

17 minutes ago, Traveler said:

How much advance notice was Nephi given in the Book of Mormon to the first advent of Christ? 

As little as I know and understand - when two prophets are killed and left on the streets of Jerusalem - I will be able to tell you or anyone else that wants to know - easily within 24 hours - when the second coming will be.

The Traveler

Studying revelation followed by watching for fulfillment thereof is good. Speculation where no revelation has been given* is seriously questionable, IMO, and could easily lead people astray (even if the speculator is not one of those people).  E.g. Natural disasters, eclipses, etc. have been happening for as long as this earth has been orbiting the sun.  Another one happening tomorrow doesn't necessarily mean anything specific.  A pattern (such as increasing frequency of natural disasters) prophesied in scripture is a confirmation of what scripture tells us (e.g. that we're living in the last days).  IMO, you have described well the difference between understanding and watching for what has been revealed and speculation.

(*Unless you're a prophet/apostle who's been told to reveal personal revelation to the world, we should keep our personal revelations in this sort of thing to ourselves and perhaps those within our stewardship.  And if it's not prophesied, we should be very careful about how we communicate our speculations, if we communicate them at all.)

I think it's a fine line between watching for prophesied signs (good) and seeking after signs (sin, per scripture).

Edited September 7, 2016 by zil

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

 when two prophets are killed and left on the streets of Jerusalem - I will be able to tell you or anyone else that wants to know - easily within 24 hours - when the second coming will be.

 

 

We agree on that part. 

it's easy to make bold proclamations like "This is a sign! That is a sign!" because there is no way you can be proven wrong. You say "This earthquake is a sign that we are in the final days!!" Two hundred years later when you are proven wrong you can still say "We re in the final days!". And eventually, like the boy who cried wolf, the people who claim that it's all over again and again will be ignored. 
 

[CV75]

14 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

There is no way to calculate when the second coming will take place. The Bible says that Jesus doesn't even know (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32). The Bible also says that He will come when we aren't expecting it (Matthew 24:4). 

Because of this, we need to live our lives as if His return will happen in in five or ten minutes-because it could. Followers of Christ are told to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19).  The field is ripe for harvest (John 4:35).

Instead of trying to figure out when He will return, those who follow Christ should focus on living their lives for Him and showing Him to other people. It doesn't matter when He'll come back. He's got it covered. I don't have to worry about that. What I do have to worry about is showing others the love of God and the way to salvation.

Focus on eternal things.

Perhaps Jesus didn't know the day or the hour at the time he said Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, but I'm sure He knows now. Whenever he brings up the hour and the day of His coming in the D&C, He seems to have a timetable and is only withholding the particulars for the time being; the wicked will always be taken unawares. We know there are various phases to His Second Coming, and they will be revealed in due time to His servants the prophets.

[Larry Cotrell]

15 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Perhaps Jesus didn't know the day or the hour at the time he said Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, but I'm sure He knows now. Whenever he brings up the hour and the day of His coming in the D&C, He seems to have a timetable and is only withholding the particulars for the time being; the wicked will always be taken unawares. We know there are various phases to His Second Coming, and they will be revealed in due time to His servants the prophets.

Why would He know now if He didn't know then? Why would God have recently decided to tell Him?

Edited September 7, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[zil]

9 minutes ago, Larry Cotrell said:

Why would He know now if He didn't know then?

Because it was after his resurrection that he received all that God has (including knowledge)?  I think it's safe to believe Christ knows everything now.

But, I'm not sure we can be sure whether Christ knew during his mortality:

In Mark 13:32, Christ includes himself in the list of people who don't know.  Compare that to Matthew 24:36 (including Joseph Smith - Matthew 24:40 ) and D&C 49:7 - Christ does not include himself in the list of people who didn't know.  So maybe he knew during mortality and maybe he didn't (or maybe he didn't at some point, and later in mortality learned it).  Who knows.  I am not overly concerned either way.

I am certain he knows now.  (Though if I'm wrong, I don't think it'll hurt anything.)

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, zil said:

Because it was after his resurrection that he received all that God has (including knowledge)?  I think it's safe to believe Christ knows everything now.

But, I'm not sure we can be sure whether Christ knew during his mortality:

In Mark 13:32, Christ includes himself in the list of people who don't know.  Compare that to Matthew 24:36 (including Joseph Smith - Matthew 24:40 ) and D&C 49:7 - Christ does not include himself in the list of people who didn't know.  So maybe he knew during mortality and maybe he didn't (or maybe he didn't at some point, and later in mortality learned it).  Who knows.  I am not overly concerned either way.

I am certain he knows now.  (Though if I'm wrong, I don't think it'll hurt anything.)

I know you know that He knows.  But what you don't know is that I know you don't know that I don't know whether He might know or not.