Connie Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 What would you consider a good LDS answer to this inquiry: How does one go about trusting in Heavenly Father within the whole context of being purified in the furnace of affliction and all that? He kind of wants us to go through hard and sometimes really bad things (or what mortals consider bad anyway), so how do you trust someone who essentially wants you to hurt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 As a boy scout leader I allow my boys to make bad decisions that cause some degree of personal or group suffering so that they can learn from it and be stronger and wiser. It may be something as simple as allowing a boy to completely destroy the gravy for the potatoes on a campout so that next time he pays better attention and does better. Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omegaseamaster75 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Connie said: What would you consider a good LDS answer to this inquiry: How does one go about trusting in Heavenly Father within the whole context of being purified in the furnace of affliction and all that? He kind of wants us to go through hard and sometimes really bad things (or what mortals consider bad anyway), so how do you trust someone who essentially wants you to hurt? I do not think that you should trust someone that wants to hurt you, you should separate yourself from them as far away as you can. I trust that Heavenly Father wants us to have happy productive lives, not lives filled with affliction, I don't think that he wants us to go through really bad things. I think that if it was up to him he would take all that away, but life happens we make bad decisions, or someone else's bad decision affects us, we become unlucky in business, or have a bad medical report. It's called life. He has blessed us with sharp minds and agency to make good decisions, he will bless us and hold our hands in our afflictions if we ask him, and if we apply what we learned during our times of trouble we will arise better people for it with a newfound strength only given to us by exercising our faith in our father in heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 I know just how you feel. None of my numbers are working out today. I may go and sacrifice a goat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerome1232 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said: I do not think that you should trust someone that wants to hurt you, you should separate yourself from them as far away as you can. I trust that Heavenly Father wants us to have happy productive lives, not lives filled with affliction, I don't think that he wants us to go through really bad things. I think that if it was up to him he would take all that away, but life happens we make bad decisions, or someone else's bad decision affects us, we become unlucky in business, or have a bad medical report. It's called life. He has blessed us with sharp minds and agency to make good decisions, he will bless us and hold our hands in our afflictions if we ask him, and if we apply what we learned during our times of trouble we will arise better people for it with a newfound strength only given to us by exercising our faith in our father in heaven. My child is in 2nd grade. He is learning math and spelling and reading. He has a hard time reading but he loves it, which makes the learning process all the more frustrating for him. When I read to him, I insist that he follows along with his finger even though he'd prefer to just look at the pictures. I also insist that he reads what he can read to me, and I won't just do it for him. He probably at times thinks I'm a big meany head for making him read and not just reading to him all of the time. There is however a greater purpose, he won't learn to read by looking at pictures as I do it for him. Edited October 25, 2016 by jerome1232 SilentOne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Connie said: What would you consider a good LDS answer to this inquiry: How does one go about trusting in Heavenly Father within the whole context of being purified in the furnace of affliction and all that? He kind of wants us to go through hard and sometimes really bad things (or what mortals consider bad anyway), so how do you trust someone who essentially wants you to hurt? Heavenly Father does not want to hurt you. He will however, allow you to go through temporary growing pains on you journey to become the best you. He is always there to help you and to hold your hand, even when things are hurting in the movement. a mustard seed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anddenex Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 20 hours ago, Connie said: What would you consider a good LDS answer to this inquiry: How does one go about trusting in Heavenly Father within the whole context of being purified in the furnace of affliction and all that? He kind of wants us to go through hard and sometimes really bad things (or what mortals consider bad anyway), so how do you trust someone who essentially wants you to hurt? The premise of our Heavenly Father "essentially wanting to hurt us" requires attention, not to dismiss it though. This reminds me of my mission where people would ask, "Do you wear Jesus Jamas"? I learned early on in my mission to seek to appropriately correct a misunderstanding. The notion that God wants to "hurt us" is prevalent within some circles. I would first clarify that there is difference between the desire to "hurt" and "allowing" bad things to occur, even when the one allowing has every ability to intercede but does not due to other principles of truth: the foremost being "agency." Questions that first enter into my heart and mind are: 1) Does God love us? Yes 2) How have others experienced trials and yet still trusted, and why did they trust despite affliction? I honestly struggle with this concept. My struggle though comes from the comparison of how some appear to be given a walk in the park, while others are called to struggle immensely. I would personally have loved to have more of the story of Joseph who was sold into Egypt. He was the most favored of his father as the first born of his beloved, Rachel. His father's favor resulted in sibling hatred. His obedience to his father even more enticed hatred from his older brethren. As a slave, he was favored such that his master could see that God prospered his hand. The ultimate way one goes about trusting is given in Alma 7: 24, "And see that ye have faith, hope, and charity, and then ye will always abound in good works." If we are properly exercising faith, hope, and charity (pure love of Christ), we will obtain spiritual witnesses of God's love and encouragement. The answer is much easier than application. Sunday21 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 (edited) Quote 9 ¶Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still aretain thine bintegrity? ccurse God, and die. 10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive agood at the hand of God, and shall we not receive bevil? In all this did not Job csin with his lips. Job 2:9-10 I had a slightly different reaction when I went through one of my toughest trials. I actually told people that God had abandoned me. I was done for. To answer your question: Have I ever posted the alcohol analogy here? I have a bottle of isopropyl alcohol with a spray nozzle on it because my kids are constantly getting hurt when they play. We have 5 acres where kids are free to roam through the brush. When they get hurt, I spray them with the alcohol. IT HURTS!!! The kids run away from me. But wound needs to be sterilized. Do I "want" to hurt them? NO! Of course not. I'm trying to get the bugs out. And the method I'm using happens to hurt. I don't choose the method because it hurts. That's merely a side effect. I'm choosing the method that in my opinion works best. So, when I have yet another trial come to me I realize that I may not like it and I won't be enjoying the experience. But I have to have faith that it is for my own good and will give me experience. And above all...The Son of Man hath descended below them all.... That didn't stop me from trying to get out of the trial as quickly as possible. Edited October 26, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 22 hours ago, Connie said: What would you consider a good LDS answer to this inquiry: How does one go about trusting in Heavenly Father within the whole context of being purified in the furnace of affliction and all that? He kind of wants us to go through hard and sometimes really bad things (or what mortals consider bad anyway), so how do you trust someone who essentially wants you to hurt? What other possibility are you considering? The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdfxdb Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 My answer would be that Heavenly father does not want to hurt us. He doesn't need to. We manage to hurt our selves with our poor decisions, and sins sufficiently in this life that he doesn't need to be that involved. Think about something bad that happened to you. Can you tie it to something you did? Probably. Sometimes bad things happen to good people, and for no seeming reason, that is called life. Unless you are Job, God is not getting directly involved in "hurting" you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CV75 Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 10/25/2016 at 2:05 PM, Connie said: What would you consider a good LDS answer to this inquiry: How does one go about trusting in Heavenly Father within the whole context of being purified in the furnace of affliction and all that? He kind of wants us to go through hard and sometimes really bad things (or what mortals consider bad anyway), so how do you trust someone who essentially wants you to hurt? I think by choosing to be purified no matter what. God not only wants us to suffer, but to suffer for good reason (to be pure), and we can trust Him for that. And to the extent He does not want us to suffer, He has provided the Atonement, which wipes away all tears and restores all injustices and opens up the way for purification, sanctification, godliness, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2016 Report Share Posted October 26, 2016 50 minutes ago, mdfxdb said: My answer would be that Heavenly father does not want to hurt us. He doesn't need to. We manage to hurt our selves with our poor decisions, and sins sufficiently in this life that he doesn't need to be that involved. Think about something bad that happened to you. Can you tie it to something you did? Probably. Sometimes bad things happen to good people, and for no seeming reason, that is called life. Unless you are Job, God is not getting directly involved in "hurting" you. Actually, I believe He does. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/mountains-to-climb?lang=eng I believe He is not choosing to hurt us. He is choosing to help us grow. But the process happens to hurt us. That's why it is likened to a refiner's fire. When I work with metals and want to purify it, I'm not melting the metal with heat to destroy it. I'm changing it to a more workable form. If the metal were sentient, it would probably feel pretty hurt. But there really is no other way to purify it or work with it in such a complete way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) On 10/25/2016 at 11:05 AM, Connie said: What would you consider a good LDS answer to this inquiry: How does one go about trusting in Heavenly Father within the whole context of being purified in the furnace of affliction and all that? He kind of wants us to go through hard and sometimes really bad things (or what mortals consider bad anyway), so how do you trust someone who essentially wants you to hurt? I think this is a good question. As a survivor of sexual assault I have asked similar questions. I wrote an entire book that dealt with this and related questions, but I'll give you the short version. First, I abandoned the idea that God "gives" us adversity. Perhaps in some cases He does, I don't know. But I am certain that He does NOT give us sexual assault, rape, child abuse, kidnapping or murder as some sort of test. These things come from evil people using their agency badly. I am doubtful that he gives us illnesses like cancer, MS, mental illness etc. I think illness is caused by various factors including but not limited to genetics, and environment. Still I struggled with the idea that a loving Father would stand by while one of His daughters was being raped. Three things help with that.... First, is what I call the economy of heaven. I think that Heavenly Father cannot step in and stop bad guys before they do bad things because agency is so important. Massive intervention could cause the whole system to collapse. Second, is that He allowed His only begotten son, His perfect son to suffer the most so that Christ would have the power, knowledge and compassion to succor us. Which leads me to my last point . . . Heavenly Father can allow these things because He knows that He can help us turn these things into "the defining moments of our lives" (Admiral Stockdale) which we would not change. Christ can help us make even the most horrible experience be for our good. I know this not only from personal experience, but from other stories I have heard. So hold on...trust and some day we will know that it was worth it if we don't rebel. Edited October 27, 2016 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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