Question about church's purpose

[Chewy244]

I've been wondering about something for a few weeks now. I've never liked going to church past sacrament meeting. The sacrament means a lot to me. I've had some tough church experiences in my life. I believe in LDS doctrines and have a testimony of the role of the savior... but I get a bit confused about the role of the church on earth.

The exceptionally vast majority of people ever to inhabit this earth never heard about the gospel. No problem - the Lord has created the ability for them to be taught the gospel on the other side, and we can perform ordinances for them. Cool! 

Where my question comes in is here: if things are set up the way they are post-mortally, and the vast majority of people aren't going to be given a chance to live the gospel here on earth anyway... why is there such a push for missionary work? What is the benefit of having more people accept the gospel here on earth? It's certainly a great comfort to me knowing that Jesus Christ suffered for my sins, and there are other blessings tied to keeping the commandments, but that doesn't seem to cover the entirety of the endless push to bring people in/reactivate.  

What is the real purpose of the gospel on the earth? Simply to make life easier for the select few who find it? To create a framework for performing proxy ordinances during the millennium? I'm just genuinely confused... 

[Anddenex]

These are aspects that first enter into my mind and heart as to why we have the gospel on the earth:

1) An invitation to come unto Christ
2) Knowledge (Doctrine and Covenants 130:18-19)
3) The "Elect" hear God's voice and desire to reach the full measure their creation
4) Zion (Moses 7:18) -- Zion could never be fulfilled if we were all lazy and said, "Ehh, it doesn't matter, missionary work is pointless. Why try to spread 'truth' it doesn't matter."
5) To learn to become and fulfill our full measure of creation
6) To who much is given much is required

Here is a simple story from my mission, that occurred while on my mission. A young woman (early twenties) was meeting with the missionaries, and desired to be baptized. She approached her mother and shared her desire and the gospel with her. Her mother's response, "No, you can't be baptized they don't want you." The reason for her mother's response is that twenty or so years earlier her mother met with the missionaries. They handed her a Book of Mormon and said please read and we will be back to answer questions. She was one of the few that read the Book of Mormon in one night (she couldn't put it down). She was ready to be baptized. The missionaries never came back. She determined that the Mormon church didn't want her, so she never sought the Church out. When she had learned that this wasn't the case, she provided this response, "You mean for the past twenty year I could have enjoyed the knowledge of the gospel, the blessings of baptism and the Holy Ghost. My daughter would have been raised in light rather than confusion with the blessings of the gospel of Jesus Christ?" Well, I assume if we all held the notion, "Missionary work, it doesn't matter, except for the select few," then truly Zion would never be an option, a possibility.

If every member was a missionary, as we have been counseled (instead of providing excuses that we do), seeking to give light and knowledge to one family (like this mother), the Church would grow exponentially. The 15 million members could turn to 30 million in one year, and 30 million could turn into 60 million, and so on and so forth. But, we have far too many excuses rather than reasons to spread the gospel (I am including myself in this statement).

[Chewy244]

Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure if this answers my question, though... I agree that there isn't a huge amount of fire in the eyes of members (in general) regarding member missionary work. My question is: if things are set up to allow everyone to receive the truth, be it in this life or the next, what is the purpose of pulling as many in as possible? Even if the church's size grew 10 fold, it would be only a drop in the bucket of the world's all-time population... Is the reason simply to allow those who hear it to have a more peaceful mortal life? 

[Anddenex]

The first six items answer the question. The rest responds to the question of missionary work.

Edit: The only reason why we are in the position specified is due to the "disobedience" of the sons and daughters of God who love darkness rather than light.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Anddenex

[Guest]

Quote

Doctrine and Covenants 2:3

3 If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming.

Doctrine and Covenants 138:48

48 Foreshadowing the great work to be done in the temples of the Lord in the dispensation of the fulness of times, for the redemption of the dead, and the sealing of the children to their parents, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse and utterly wasted at his coming.

Joseph Smith—History 1:39

39 He also quoted the next verse differently: And he shall plant in the hearts of the children the promises made to the fathers, and the hearts of the children shall turn to their fathers. If it were not so, the whole earth would be utterly wasted at his coming.

Quote

Doctrine and Covenants 13:1

1 Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

Doctrine and Covenants 128:24

24 Behold, the great day of the Lord is at hand; and who can abide the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner’s fire, and like fuller’s soap; and he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. Let us, therefore, as a church and a people, and as Latter-day Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness; and let us present in his holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the records of our dead, which shall be worthy of all acceptation.

Doctrine and Covenants 84:31

31 Therefore, as I said concerning the sons of Moses—for the sons of Moses and also the sons of Aaron shall offer an acceptable offering and sacrifice in the house of the Lord, which house shall be built unto the Lord in this generation, upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed—

While much can be done even by non-LDS Christian sects to the preaching of the gospel, the perfecting the saints, helping the poor and the needy, only one faith on earth does the redeeming the dead mission of the Church.  And we need all the help we can get.  So, spreading the gospel is absolutely essential.

[BeccaKirstyn]

As @Carborendum was saying, the only reason people get the chance to accept this gospel post-mortality is because there are people here in mortality who help them do so (temple work). And as you've spoken, there are a lot of people who never heard the gospel and are needing that work done. We need more members here on Earth to help perform that work, hence the push for missionary work to eventually perform those ordinances. While this gospel is meant to help the individual find peace and comfort in their own Earthly lives, we are more importantly to become more Christ-like. What does that entail? Charity and service towards our fellowmen, including those who are beyond the veil. 

To compare Earthly proxy work to millennium proxy work I think is a bad idea. We don't know very much about the details of the millennium, so I think it's best to focus our efforts in the here and now. We know our purpose here and how it will help those beyond the veil. 

[The Folk Prophet]

5 hours ago, Chewy244 said:

Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure if this answers my question, though... I agree that there isn't a huge amount of fire in the eyes of members (in general) regarding member missionary work. My question is: if things are set up to allow everyone to receive the truth, be it in this life or the next, what is the purpose of pulling as many in as possible? Even if the church's size grew 10 fold, it would be only a drop in the bucket of the world's all-time population...  

Why do you think there's any difference between doing missionary work in this life vs. the next? Are you simply suggesting that procrastination is a good thing? Leaving people to rot in hell for as long as possible before helping them find truth and salvation is good? Or do you think people will find the truth in the next life through some other means than believing members going out and teaching it to them?

5 hours ago, Chewy244 said:

 Is the reason simply to allow those who hear it to have a more peaceful mortal life? 

Yes. Except that is understated. But basically. Yes.

[Guest]

Also,

From this Ask Gramps article:

https://askgramps.org/muslims-allowed-use-lds-buildings/

There are some people that simply cannot be reached by other sects or other means.  Some will be much more willing to hear the gospel on earth from a "Mormon" than in the next life from someone with no label.

[JohnsonJones]

There is a legend/myth or some would consider it history (and we know it happened as we have the monuments and markers of it, but we may lack some details) of an invasion of Greece by the Persians during the Second Persian War.  This led to the Battle of Thermopylae.  They were led by one King Leonidas, who had a force of around 4000-7000 Greeks.

The Greek legends say they faced an army of over 2 million Persians, though, historians now think it was more likely to be around 70,000 to maybe up to 300,000.  Still, a sizeable force with 10 to 1 ratios at best, and up to 75 to 1 ratios at worst.  King Leonidas determined that the battle could not be won eventually and decided to save the majority of the Greek Army.  He and his Spartans, along with their retainers would defend the pass while the rest of the Greeks retreated in good order.  His final force to defend this retreat was probably around 1700 Greeks total (300 of his Spartans, or those that survived the first few days of the battle, their retainers (or slaves, aka...the helots) which numbered around 900, and 700 other Greeks that refused to leave.

Now, if the entire army simply decided to stay, as the Persians were gaining the high ground and flanking the Greeks, they all would have been killed.  If they all retreated, as it was on open ground beyond, the Persians could simply rush them, overrun them, and kill them all as well.  This meant someone had to play delay the Persian army.  This was the group that Leonidas kept with him, to fight the rearguard action.

Every Spartan died, and the rest of the rearguard died for the most part died as well except for around 400 who surrendered.  They held off the Persians long enough for at least part of the Greek army to survive and fight another day.

The Battle of Thermopylae was a huge loss for the Greeks.  They gained almost nothing from it, and the two cities they were trying to save were captured.  However, the Greeks survived to fight another day, in part, because King Leonidas did his part to try to preserve them.

So here is the parallel.  Not every Greek participated in the Battle of Thermopylae, in fact, comparatively, it was excessively small.  However, it has had a HUGE impact on Greek consciousness and character.  Why then is it important that Leonidas and the Spartans remained at Thermopylae if every Greek gets the benefits regardless?

My answer, is because if they had not, there would be no history, no pride, no salvation, and definitely nothing for the Greeks to look upon as inspiration if he had not.  There has to be someone willing to do the work and pay the price.

The same applies here.  Yes, there are those who benefit from our work on this earth in the hereafter.  It could be that the majority that are saved in the Kingdom of our Lord are saved in the hereafter.  However, there has to be someone here to do that work.

[CV75]

On 3/16/2017 at 1:51 AM, Chewy244 said:

What is the real purpose of the gospel on the earth? Simply to make life easier for the select few who find it? To create a framework for performing proxy ordinances during the millennium? I'm just genuinely confused... 

On 3/16/2017 at 11:07 AM, Chewy244 said:

Thanks for the reply! I'm not sure if this answers my question, though... I agree that there isn't a huge amount of fire in the eyes of members (in general) regarding member missionary work. My question is: if things are set up to allow everyone to receive the truth, be it in this life or the next, what is the purpose of pulling as many in as possible? Even if the church's size grew 10 fold, it would be only a drop in the bucket of the world's all-time population... Is the reason simply to allow those who hear it to have a more peaceful mortal life? 

I see two question here; the first being about the purpose of the Gospel and the second the purpose of the Church. I think you ar really asking about the Church.

The Church is a vehicle for God to express His will. As His will is done, we become like Him, and it is in His nature to continually invite and bless and expand the power and influence of righteousness. The Church is a unique vehicle in that the power of God is directly delegated to mortal agents (originally in this dispensation by the laying on of hands by immortal agents Peter, James and John).

The purpose of the Gospel of course is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, and the Church is the key means for bringing that to pass, the Atonement being the primary and overarching means.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

I see two question here; the first being about the purpose of the Gospel and the second the purpose of the Church. I think you ar really asking about the Church.

The Church is a vehicle for God to express His will. As His will is done, we become like Him, and it is in His nature to continually invite and bless and expand the power and influence of righteousness. The Church is a unique vehicle in that the power of God is directly delegated to mortal agents (originally in this dispensation by the laying on of hands by immortal agents Peter, James and John).

 

The purpose of the Gospel of course is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, and the Church is the key means for bringing that to pass, the Atonement being the primary and overarching means.

I'm not seeing the difference clearly here. Certainly, the purpose of "the church" and "the gospel" is one and the same. They are, truly enough, not "the same" thing. But the purpose is the same.

[Fether]

On 3/15/2017 at 11:51 PM, Chewy244 said:

I've been wondering about something for a few weeks now. I've never liked going to church past sacrament meeting. The sacrament means a lot to me. I've had some tough church experiences in my life. I believe in LDS doctrines and have a testimony of the role of the savior... but I get a bit confused about the role of the church on earth.

The exceptionally vast majority of people ever to inhabit this earth never heard about the gospel. No problem - the Lord has created the ability for them to be taught the gospel on the other side, and we can perform ordinances for them. Cool! 

Where my question comes in is here: if things are set up the way they are post-mortally, and the vast majority of people aren't going to be given a chance to live the gospel here on earth anyway... why is there such a push for missionary work? What is the benefit of having more people accept the gospel here on earth? It's certainly a great comfort to me knowing that Jesus Christ suffered for my sins, and there are other blessings tied to keeping the commandments, but that doesn't seem to cover the entirety of the endless push to bring people in/reactivate.  

What is the real purpose of the gospel on the earth? Simply to make life easier for the select few who find it? To create a framework for performing proxy ordinances during the millennium? I'm just genuinely confused... 

Keep in mind that achieving exaltation is not a status acquired from accepting an ideology (the gospel). It's not a liscence we receive after going through a set of classes. It is achieved by becoming godly.

Remember that our agency didn't start on Earth. The character and personality we have now comes from decisions we made is pre earth life. So this life is just a continuation of that, and the spirit world is a continuation of this life. 

We are judged according to the decisions we make in ALL THREE states of existence, not just this one or the next. This is why it is important to share and spread the gospel. The gospe is suppose to be everything to us, it isn't just passport to heaven, but is the society of heaven.

if we don't want to live the gospel today, we never will and we won't go to the celestial kingdom. So essentially, love today like you will the the celestial kingdom or you can't live there when you die (except in the case that you don't know about the gospel).

 

LASTLY:

Who do you think is going to be doing the missionary work in the spirit world and Millenium? Not those who live the gospel luke warmly today. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm not seeing the difference clearly here. Certainly, the purpose of "the church" and "the gospel" is one and the same. They are, truly enough, not "the same" thing. But the purpose is the same.

There is a good deal of overlap, no doubt. But the purpose of the Church is to bring the Gospel to people through bona fide doctrines, covenants, ordinances, etc., so that the purpose of the Gospel can be realized, which is to bring people to God and eternal life.

https://www.lds.org/manual/the-gospel/the-gospel?lang=eng

“The gospel of Jesus Christ is our Heavenly Father’s plan for the happiness and salvation of His children… According to His plan, our Heavenly Father sent His Son, Jesus Christ, into the world to show us how to live meaningful and happy lives and experience eternal joy after this life.”

The Church is the means through which the Son accomplishes that.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/10/why-the-church?lang=eng

“It is worth pausing to consider why Jesus Christ chooses to use a church, His Church, to carry out His and His Father’s work…

“In the Church we not only learn divine doctrine; we also experience its application…

“There is a second major reason the Savior works through a church, His Church, and that is to achieve needful things that cannot be accomplished by individuals or smaller groups…

“The final reason I will mention for the Lord to have established His Church is the most unique—the Church is, after all, the kingdom of God on the earth.”

[The Folk Prophet]

37 minutes ago, CV75 said:

There is a good deal of overlap, no doubt. But the purpose of the Church is to bring the Gospel to people through bona fide doctrines, covenants, ordinances, etc., so that the purpose of the Gospel can be realized, which is to bring people to God and eternal life.

 

https://www.lds.org/manual/the-gospel/the-gospel?lang=eng

 

“The gospel of Jesus Christ is our Heavenly Father’s plan for the happiness and salvation of His children… According to His plan, our Heavenly Father sent His Son, Jesus Christ, into the world to show us how to live meaningful and happy lives and experience eternal joy after this life.”

 

The Church is the means through which the Son accomplishes that.

 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/10/why-the-church?lang=eng

 

“It is worth pausing to consider why Jesus Christ chooses to use a church, His Church, to carry out His and His Father’s work…

 

“In the Church we not only learn divine doctrine; we also experience its application…

 

“There is a second major reason the Savior works through a church, His Church, and that is to achieve needful things that cannot be accomplished by individuals or smaller groups…

 

“The final reason I will mention for the Lord to have established His Church is the most unique—the Church is, after all, the kingdom of God on the earth.”

 

To me this is like saying that the purpose of a gun is to hold a bullet but the bullet's purpose is to strike/kill/whatever. And therefore the purpose of a gun and a bullet are different. Well....yeah.......sort of....but not really. Guns have no real purpose without bullets and bullets none without guns.

May not be a perfect analogy, but essentially it's the same in my mind. The church's purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of men. The same as the gospel's.

[Chewy244]

Thank you everyone who responded to this in an uplifting way! I asked because I genuinely want to become better, so those who sorta talked down or suggested my being lukewarm or lazy, etc, missed the point - guess we all need to remember the point of everything to one degree or another. 

[CV75]

50 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

To me this is like saying that the purpose of a gun is to hold a bullet but the bullet's purpose is to strike/kill/whatever. And therefore the purpose of a gun and a bullet are different. Well....yeah.......sort of....but not really. Guns have no real purpose without bullets and bullets none without guns.

May not be a perfect analogy, but essentially it's the same in my mind. The church's purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of men. The same as the gospel's.

That is a fine analogy. I think additionally, it's more like the gunman's purpose is to strike an object with a bullet, and he uses the gun to do that. The gun's purpose is to fire the bullet according to the intent of the gunman.

One acts with intent, and one is acted upon according to another's will. God acts with intent, the Church is acted upon according to His will. God's purpose is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of men, and does it with intent; the Church only follows His design. This is why in the link above, Elder Cristofferson emphasizes that "…we do not strive for conversion to the Church but to Christ and His gospel, a conversion that is facilitated by the Church.”

At any rate, as long as someone sees a difference and can articulate it, I'm OK with that.

 

[Vort]

Get a protection gun, not a murder gun.

 

[Vort]

Wow. That chick could be my avatar's blonde, green-eyed sister.

[CV75]

55 minutes ago, Vort said:

Get a protection gun, not a murder gun.

This is all I need:

Laying on of hands, anyone?