What really toasts my biscuits about this church

[Guest]

is that we never seem to sing "The Spirit of God" at a good tempo. 

We're supposed to sing and shout with the armies of heaven, not yawn and dirge. 

It was our rest hymn at stake conference today, and it was so bad that hubby and I were either giggling or dozing off. Good thing they made us stand, at least. 

[Guest Godless]

That always bothered me as well, believe it or not.

[zil]

Personally, I think certain hymns really need a brass and percussion section to sound good.  Imagine how much better that would make How Firm a Foundation (one of my favorites).    And really, Battle Hymn of the Republic is just silly without them...

[eddified]

Ha, I would love to sing it at a nice quick tempo, that would be great!

The thing that bothers me about the church membership (not the leadership or the teachings of the church -- I'm only talking about the culture of the church here) is the tendency to forget about Christ's Grace and attempting to be perfect right now. Perfection and relying on good works alone without relying on His Grace and Mercy, I think, are a big problem. Don't get me wrong, we should strive to do good works, but when you fall short, don't get down on yourself. Christ loves you and I think He cheers the saints from the sidelines even after they've made mistakes. 

[Guest]

I meant this to be a lighthearted post, but it really is kind of an annoying thing. Slow =/= reverent. One time, I was playing Spirit of God or some sort of anthem in sacrament meeting at what I felt was a joyous speed. Someone came to me after the meeting and asked if I didn't think I was playing a little too fast and irreverently. No, I think slow can be distracting and even irreverent, when we're supposed to be singing jubilant praise. 

[Rob Osborn]

Throw in a drum set and electric guitars while were at it!

 

[Rob Osborn]

11 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I meant this to be a lighthearted post, but it really is kind of an annoying thing. Slow =/= reverent. One time, I was playing Spirit of God or some sort of anthem in sacrament meeting at what I felt was a joyous speed. Someone came to me after the meeting and asked if I didn't think I was playing a little too fast and irreverently. No, I think slow can be distracting and even irreverent, when we're supposed to be singing jubilant praise. 

We once sang it at about twice the speed and boy was that energetic and invigorating!

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Throw in a drum set and electric guitars while were at it!

 

Well now let's not get crazy. 

[Guest MormonGator]

27 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Throw in a drum set and electric guitars while were at it!

 

 

19 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Well now let's not get crazy. 

Hey now. If they did this you probably wouldn't be able to stop me from going to church! 

[Sunday21]

Where are those toasted biscuits! Send them my way!

[Sunday21]

I once accepted the task of driving a woman who was hiding from a Brazilian gangster to church. She was Brazilian, I thought Catholic?, I will get in a good nap. No Pentecostal, with an electric guitar band, very loud and lots of jumping up and down and then coffee and cookies! Quite invigorating!

[beefche]

Well, there are a couple of things for each hymn, called mood and tempo. I'm pretty sure that each hymn doesn't include the mood "death dirge." So, not only can the hymns be PLAYED at tempo, but they can even be SUNG at tempo and remain reverent and worshipful.  

Does that add some butter to your toasted biscuits? 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I once accepted the task of driving a woman who was hiding from a Brazilian gangster to church. She was Brazilian, I thought Catholic?, I will get in a good nap. No Pentecostal, with an electric guitar band, very loud and lots of jumping up and down and then coffee and cookies! Quite invigorating!

My brother used to seek out Pentecostal churches on his mission in Brazil, just for the rock bands. 

Of course, he's an atheist now...  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, beefche said:

Well, there are a couple of things for each hymn, called mood and tempo. I'm pretty sure that each hymn doesn't include the mood "death dirge." So, not only can the hymns be PLAYED at tempo, but they can even be SUNG at tempo and remain reverent and worshipful.  

Does that add some butter to your toasted biscuits? 

More butter is more better. 

[a mustard seed]

47 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

I meant this to be a lighthearted post, but it really is kind of an annoying thing. Slow =/= reverent. One time, I was playing Spirit of God or some sort of anthem in sacrament meeting at what I felt was a joyous speed. Someone came to me after the meeting and asked if I didn't think I was playing a little too fast and irreverently. No, I think slow can be distracting and even irreverent, when we're supposed to be singing jubilant praise. 

I like this! I'm very partial to upbeat and faster paced hymns, the songs making me feel like dancing I am so happy for the gospel in my life. Funny this comes up. Just today in Gospel Doctrine we were reading D&C section 25. One of the things discussed was how Emma was charged with collecting the hymns and how she and Brother Phelps chose the songs. One of the revolutionary things was how she selected jubiliant and uplifting music, as opposed to the dreary, sorrowful and morose hymns that were popular with other churches at the time. In that section she is commanded to find these songs that are pleasing to the Lord that invite that kind of spirit. A too slow, sleepy/dreary tempo can definitely make the spirit leave as the song drags or irritates. 

[Guest]

The Lord said to make a joyful noise! I love our reverent, worshipful hymns, but I also think we have a lot to be joyous about! 

[askandanswer]

I notice that in our ward, the hymns in Priesthood are almost always sung at a faster tempo and with greater vigour than the same hymns in Sacrament meeting. What really gets my goat sometimes is the inexperienced, one speed conductors, who, no matter what the hymn, will conduct at the same speed, all the time.Not too long ago, in our ward, we had a chorister who had a Bachelor of Music degree, and if he thought the hymns needed to be sung with more feeling or vigour, he would stop at the end of the verse, call out some instructions and encouragement to the congregation, and then proceed with the next verse.He was very passionate and the congregation always responded well.

[Rob Osborn]

Ive already told folks there will be no boring church songs at my funeral. I want them to play the Cars (the best band ever), paying the pizza delivery to show up with a hundred pizzas and everyone gets a crisp new 50$ bill for coming. Anyone who trys to, or attempts to, throw in a boring slow church hymn will be haunted for seven years!!!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I'm with you.  You know what drives me crazy is that our current music director favors Apollonian style hymns, slow, plodding, reverent.  I much prefer the Dionysian style, upbeat, lively celebrating.  So what happens is the director often chooses hymns I've never even heard of, while I long for some Spirit of God, Rock of Ages, Battle Hymn of the Republic, Called to Serve or Praise to the Man kinds of hymns.  Sigh . . . 

 

[zil]

28 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Praise to the Man

Ahhh, bagpipes and snare drums, yes!

[Guest]

The Hosanna Shout today is often a "chant".

I was in a young adult stake conference where the stake pres stopped the congregation from singing to tell the conductor to go faster.  He did it about three times until we were fast enough for his taste.

Most people giggled at his energy. But...  This particular song's appropriate tempo was indeed slower.  And the non-member I had visiting with me was a very seriously religious man who didn't think it was appropriate for him to make light of such a thing in this manner.  I partially agreed with him.

But, yes, the Spirit of God should be shouted.  The entire song is supposed to be forte or louder, with a fff on the "we'll sing and we'll shout..."

[anatess2]

10 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I notice that in our ward, the hymns in Priesthood are almost always sung at a faster tempo and with greater vigour than the same hymns in Sacrament meeting. What really gets my goat sometimes is the inexperienced, one speed conductors, who, no matter what the hymn, will conduct at the same speed, all the time.Not too long ago, in our ward, we had a chorister who had a Bachelor of Music degree, and if he thought the hymns needed to be sung with more feeling or vigour, he would stop at the end of the verse, call out some instructions and encouragement to the congregation, and then proceed with the next verse.He was very passionate and the congregation always responded well.

I was the Ward Chorister for a few years (the person that waves her hand infront of the congregation while singing hymns in Sacrament Meeting).  Somebody else was in charge of the song selection and we got 3 organists on a weekly rotation.  Well, first of all, the organ is on the side where the bishopric and the sacrament bread/water are so I have to do my thing on the other side of the podium where the organist has to look over the organ and the podium to see me.  Then, more often than not, the song selections have a very slow song as an Opening Hymn... it sets the mood for the rest of the Sacrament meeting - we're sorrowful today.  Next, it doesn't matter if I'm waving vigorously, trying to catch the organists eye, so I can get things moving differently... the organist plays however he wants to play, the congregation sings however they want to sing, and I can just sit down and it wouldn't matter one bit.  So, I got this bright idea to signal everybody to stand up when singing a robust tempo so we can keep it upbeat.  There's a whole different mood to "Master the tempest is raging... " when sung sitting down or standing up.  Which worked fine until we got a new bishop and he told me - we're not standing up anymore.  At all.  Something about us being kind to old people.

That's one thing I really miss from the Catholic Church.  The songs can be such a big part of inviting the Spirit into the hearts of everyone in the meeting so the Music Director is a very important position in the Church, so much so, that the Catholic Church pays the Music Director of the Catholic Church next-door to our ward building $60K/yr.  He is in charge of song selections, musical arrangements or compositions to match the service, selection of the choir and instruments, and whether to have a cantor or not, whether to sing the entire service or parts of the service or none at all, etc. etc.  The week leading into Easter, for example, you have Palm Sunday, then Holy Thursday, then Good Friday, then Easter Sunday - all days where Catholics are supposed to attend Mass.  You can feel the difference between all 4 Masses just from the opening song... Palm Sunday is celebratory with piano or organ and maybe the flute and violin with upbeat tempos, Holy Thursday is kinda grim - usually acapella chants or just the piano accompaniment, Good Friday - there's no music at all, none, not even vocals, everything is hushed - , Easter Sunday is jubilant with brass instruments going even.  I miss this.  But yes, I do enjoy the simplicity of a Sacrament Meeting with just the piano/organ and the congregation singing.  I just don't like it when the ward takes this part of Sacrament Meeting for granted.

 

 

[NeuroTypical]

15 hours ago, Eowyn said:

is that we never seem to sing "The Spirit of God" at a good tempo. 

We're supposed to sing and shout with the armies of heaven, not yawn and dirge. 

I have experienced the occasional music person who gets this, and I have indeed sang and shouted with the armies of heaven.  But no, not usually.

(If they ever make me emperor of the Mormons, I promise to fix the hallelujah shout so it actually involves people shouting hallelujah.)

[Sunday21]

Along the same lines, can we stop singing those dawg hymns? The droopy, clunky ones that we all hate? The ones, they make you sing and then the bishop says, We have to sing ALL the hymns? Why? Let the dawgs die!

[Just_A_Guy]

The trick about playing fast is, if it's done wrong, it just sounds like the congregation doesn't really like the song and just wants to get through it.  

It's the same problem that plagued the Keira Knightly remake of Pride and Prejudice a few years back--you came away from a Jane Austen film with the impression that the actors and writers didn't really like Jane Austen very much.