Baptizing children with non-Mormon parents

[Guest]

1 minute ago, zil said:

But only for the sheathens, not for the heathens.  So you're out of luck.  No swords for you!  You can have a battle axe, though, if you want one.  Or a bow.

Sword Nazi!!!

BTW, #1 result for "Heathen weapon" on Google:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwir09Hw8JDVAhVkDZoKHewbCv0QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tactical-edgearms.com%2Fproduct-p%2Fheathen14.5.htm&psig=AFQjCNF0BL29Byu11Qczk-zytBrgsxcFmw&ust=1500400309815044

Edited July 17, 2017 by Guest

[zil]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Sword Nazi!!!

No, no, no!  Sheathen.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, zil said:

No, no, no!  Sheathen.

So, there are "She - athens" and "He - athens."  So, what is an "Athen"? People who live in Athens?

Edited July 17, 2017 by Guest

[zil]

Just now, Carborendum said:

So, there are "She - athens" and "He - athens."  So, what is an "Athen"?

The archaic form of atheist, of course.

[anatess2]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:32 AM, Maureen said:

This thread has nothing to do with if I feel your church is inspired or not. In my mind it was about looking at these type of family situations where young children should be able to be young children and not be put in a position where they have to pick sides. You of course see Roo's situation different. She's a member of your church therefore she's on the right path and that's all that matters. How dare I come in here to say maybe that wasn't the best choice for her at such a young age. So what if that's what I think, how does that feeling attack your church?

M.

This is a very simple question that has a very simple answer.

A policy is a general rule for the broad population.  It applies to "ALL".  Under that policy are details - these details only apply to "SOME".  I'm using Some not to denote a minority - but to denote "Not All".  So, even if the rule applies to 99 out of 100, it's still "Not All" and would fit in my use of Some.

So, in the case of children of gay married couples.  The general rule applies to ALL - ALL of gay couples' children will not be baptized until they're adults.  This is, of course, because the conflict is present in ALL and not just Some.  Not a future conflict.  A present conflict over the central tenet of the Church.

In the case of children of non-LDS parents, only "SOME" of those situations are in conflict.  Therefore, there is no general rule to not baptize children of non-LDS parents.  But, there are details that govern this policy such that even as there are no restrictions to baptisms for children of non-LDS parents, SOME may still not qualify for baptism.  If the child is in a position of conflict with the parents - not in the future, but in the present - then he won't be baptized regardless of the absence of a general rule.  The LDS Church may have prophetic authority but they don't make a habit of making salvific decisions based on the possibility of a future event.  That's why, they won't baptize you if you're an unmarried person living with your partner.  They're not going to baptize you on the future possibility that you're going to get married.  You get married first or move out then you're going to get baptized.  If you move out, the Church will not say - we won't baptize you because you might move back in with your boyfriend.   If you moved out, got baptized, then moved right back in with your boyfriend, that's your free agency.

An 8-year-old in our ward, for example, got baptized even if his parents are non-LDS.  The grandma is.  No direct conflict - the grandma does most of the driving of the child to church and activities, and the parents sometimes attends services and activities.  If a general rule was to be made that no children of non-LDS parents can be baptized until they're... 12 of something... then this child would not have been baptized when there were no conflicts present at all.  Which doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

 

[mirkwood]

Almost thou convince me to be a sheathen.

[zil]

5 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Almost thou convince me to be a sheathen.

What would your wife say, heathen!?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

BTW, #1 result for "Heathen weapon" on Google:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwir09Hw8JDVAhVkDZoKHewbCv0QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tactical-edgearms.com%2Fproduct-p%2Fheathen14.5.htm&psig=AFQjCNF0BL29Byu11Qczk-zytBrgsxcFmw&ust=1500400309815044

Wait a minute.  I began reading the description.  

Quote

The ALL-NEW BILLET Tactical Edge HEATHEN™ rifle is the ultimate weapon for today's progressive shooter.

I didn't know progressives believed in owning guns.  It must be for their bodyguards.  OH!!!

 

[Maureen]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

And here, my friends, is why she is the queen of self-contradiction.  She didn't insinuate they are idiots.  She was just shocked that they did such an idiotic thing as letting someone join the Mormon Church

@Carborendum, you were the one who chose to use the word 'idiot', not me.

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You can't have it both ways.  You complained about the Church excluding children with gay parents from membership.  Now you want the Church to forbid baptism to children because they simply have non-member parents.

That's when I was erroneously under the impression that the LDS church accepted all children for baptism, and initially saw the new policy as prejudice against children of gay families. I've always known that the LDS church has required parents' permission for minors to be baptized, but I was not aware that the LDS church would not allow a child to be baptized if certain criteria were not met, even if the parents' approved. When provided with relevant information, anyone can change their mind on any subject.

M. 

[Jane_Doe]

1 minute ago, Maureen said:

That's when I was erroneously under the impression that the LDS church accepted all children for baptism, and initially saw the new policy as prejudice against children of gay families. I've always known that the LDS church has required parents' permission for minors to be baptized, but I was not aware that the LDS church would not allow a child to be baptized if certain criteria were not met, even if the parents' approved. When provided with relevant information, anyone can change their mind on any subject.

M. 

Did you change your mind on the subject?

[Maureen]

1 minute ago, Jane_Doe said:

Did you change your mind on the subject?

I do understand the LDS church's position on the new policy and I do see that part of the policy was created to protect children. When I created this thread I was not aware that the LDS church did have criteria for accepting children of non-LDS families into their membership and that they have at times not allowed children to be baptized; which was the main theme of this thread. I had initially thought that if a minor (child) wanted to be baptized and the parents agreed, then that's all that mattered. I'm glad I was wrong.

M.

[anatess2]

30 minutes ago, Maureen said:

I do understand the LDS church's position on the new policy and I do see that part of the policy was created to protect children. When I created this thread I was not aware that the LDS church did have criteria for accepting children of non-LDS families into their membership and that they have at times not allowed children to be baptized; which was the main theme of this thread. I had initially thought that if a minor (child) wanted to be baptized and the parents agreed, then that's all that mattered. I'm glad I was wrong.

M.

We're in this position now.  My son's girlfriend is 16 and her sister is 14.  They both want to get baptized.  Their mother and stepdad don't care one way or the other.  But the biological dad - who passed away last year - and my son's girlfriend's godmother (devout Catholics - the godmother is my brother's wife) have expressed their strong opposition to the Mormon Church and how they believe that the girls would be in danger of hell were they to leave the Catholic faith.  The missionaries are not giving them the discussions even as they still keep in contact.  They advised her and her sister to wait until they're 18.  They thought they could be baptized after their dad passed away.  Same advice.  Wait until 18.  It's a little more complicated than this but that's basically the main gist.  The missionaries did ask the mom and stepdad if THEY would take the discussions though.

Edited July 17, 2017 by anatess2

[SilentOne]

Just to make sure I have my vocabulary right:

Heathen - Male who does not believe in God

Sheathen - Female who does not believe in God

Athen - Unisex term for one who does not believe in God

Then - Somebody who does believe in God? With Hethen and Shethen as the gendered terms?

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, zil said:

What would your wife say, heathen!?

She isn't worried about me converting to sheathenism.  I'm a member in good standing in the cult of Glock.

 

 

[zil]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Sword Nazi!!!

BTW, #1 result for "Heathen weapon" on Google:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwir09Hw8JDVAhVkDZoKHewbCv0QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tactical-edgearms.com%2Fproduct-p%2Fheathen14.5.htm&psig=AFQjCNF0BL29Byu11Qczk-zytBrgsxcFmw&ust=1500400309815044

Now that I'm home, I can follow your link (paranoid babies at work).  That is very stereotypically heathen.  Congratulations.  I'm sure your fellow heathens will welcome this addition to your arsenal.  I'm sticking with my sword (though I might see if they'll make it with a fuller instead, I prefer that look):

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, zil said:

Now that I'm home, I can follow your link (paranoid babies at work).  That is very stereotypically heathen.  Congratulations.  I'm sure your fellow heathens will welcome this addition to your arsenal.  I'm sticking with my sword (though I might see if they'll make it with a fuller instead, I prefer that look):

Were you there when we had this thread?

EDIT: duh.  Of course.  you're the next post after that one i linked to.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Guest

[zil]

1 minute ago, Carborendum said:

Were you there when we had this thread?

 

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

She isn't worried about me converting to sheathenism.  I'm a member in good standing in the cult of Glock.

Mirk,

What is it about the Glock that people like so much.  I've used one.  I've held it and fired it a bit.  I just don't get it.

I was told that the 1911 is the best because you just pick it up and you just know it belongs in your hand.  Funny thing is that it is exactly what I felt when I picked up the Ruger P-series.  Recently I found out that the Ruger P-series was based on some 1911 action.  But when I picked up the 1911, I just didn't feel that same thing.

[mirkwood]

Glock 17 is the best handgun I've shot.  I  like the weight (or lack thereof.)  When you have pointed a gun at someone for any length of time, weight becomes a consideration. 

 

Glock is easy to shoot, easy to grip and nigh unto indestructible. 

[Sunday21]

5 hours ago, zil said:

This is almost enough to make me declare myself atheist so I can be a sheathen.  As an added benefit, I'll get a sword (and a sheath, of course), and declare wearing it a part of my sheathenism beliefs.

And lots of special holidays! And cool customs! All attractive men must be hugged every August the 1st! Spinach and kale are forbidden. Daily chocolate is mandatory. Manhatten is your sacred home. 

[anatess2]

15 hours ago, mirkwood said:

She isn't worried about me converting to sheathenism.  I'm a member in good standing in the cult of Glock.

 

 

So, yesterday, my 13-year-old went to the range and fired my husband's 9mm for the first time.  I repeat... FOR THE FIRST TIME.  Before that, the only pistol he has fired are 22's used for getting the Scouting merit badge (he was not supposed to be in the class until he's 14 but the NRA guy let him take the class after he saw what he can do with the rifle).  So, anyway, he took the 9mm and shot at the 6 metal plates 45 feet out and knocked all 6 of them in under 20 seconds.  I think this kid is Olympic material!  What do you think?

 

[mirkwood]

20 seconds is a loooong time to do that. 

No such thing as bad trigger time.

Olympic material?  Uhhh...there are a lot of variables to that.

Again, no such thing as bad trigger time.

 

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, mirkwood said:

Glock 17 is the best handgun I've shot.  I  like the weight (or lack thereof.)  When you have pointed a gun at someone for any length of time, weight becomes a consideration. 

 

Glock is easy to shoot, easy to grip and nigh unto indestructible. 

Interesting.  That's what I said about the Ruger.  Also nearly indestructible.  Weight is good, etc.  I just didn't feel that with the Glock.

Part of it may be that I use a 9mm.  I'm going to guess you use a .45?  My hands are simply too small to handle a larger weapon.  I'm not the biggest guy in the world.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

20 seconds is a loooong time to do that. 

No such thing as bad trigger time.

Olympic material?  Uhhh...there are a lot of variables to that.

Again, no such thing as bad trigger time.

 

 

My husband couldn't hit a single one at 45 feet with a full magazine.  And he's had that S&W Shield 9mm for over a year.  But yeah, my husband is more of a long arm guy and doesn't do much practice with his pistol.  Oh, I forgot to mention - my kid shot all 6 plates with only 6 bullets, so he never missed a shot.  First 6 shots - bam bam bam bam bam bam.   I need to find a junior club he can join...

 

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

 I'm not the biggest guy in the world.

Tough to be Asian...