So, apparently you can find LDS neo-Nazis.

[NeuroTypical]

Has anyone ever seen one, or met one?  I just learned about their existence today from BYU Professor Dan Peterson:

Beyond repulsive. FAR beyond.

Yeah, no.  I think if I ever were to meet one, I might not be civil.  I might be downright uncharitable.

[paracaidista508]

Just a few examples below. Not all necessarily nazis,but def involved in the white supremacy world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._T._Ready

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jay_Mathews

https://mobile.twitter.com/apurposefulwife?lang=en

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

They are LDS in name only....they obviously haven't a clue what it means to follow Christ.

[Guest]

This is exactly where you end up when you start justifying apostate foundational beliefs with "That's just an apostle's personal opinion.  It isn't doctrine."  No, not the alt-right or neo-Nazis.  But championing a cause that has so many doctrinal holes that you end up looking like a fool who has to make stuff up and take things out of context just to justify your point.

People can either change their views and their behaviors to fit the correct doctrine, or they can alter doctrine to fit their views and behaviors.

[NeuroTypical]

9 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

They are LDS in name only....they obviously haven't a clue what it means to follow Christ.

Well, apparently some are baptized members in good standing, appearing on the rolls of the church.

A year or two ago, we talked about the sorts of things you can think and be wrong about, and still be a member.   If I remember correctly, my opinion back then was "Believe whatever you wish - come to church and we'll work on that."

Now, faced with the prospect of people in Dr. Peterson's link, I'm wondering if there are some affiliations or beliefs that might not be better on a "you can't be Mormon if you believe this" list. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[Just_A_Guy]

If we accept that self-described communists can be good Mormons, I don't see how we can exclude self-described Nazis from claiming to be Mormons as well.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[paracaidista508]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

If we accept that self-described communists can be good Mormons, I don't see how we can exclude self-described Nazis from claiming to be Mormons as well.

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

I think if one says yes I believe in genocide, practice anti-Semitism, support abortion or vote for government representatives who do, engage in racist activity then yes they can be excluded---well at least from the temple I guess.

Edited August 13, 2017 by paracaidista508

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Well, apparently some are baptized members in good standing, appearing on the rolls of the church.

A year or two ago, we talked about the sorts of things you can think and be wrong about, and still be a member.   If I remember correctly, my opinion back then was "Believe whatever you wish - come to church and we'll work on that."

Now, faced with the prospect of people in Dr. Peterson's link, I'm wondering if there are some affiliations or beliefs that might not be better on a "you can't be Mormon if you believe this" list. 

I'm with you!  Funny, I agree with your opinion back then and your opinion now.  I wonder what we'll be saying next year, LOL.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

If we accept that self-described communists can be good Mormons, I don't see how we can exclude self-described Nazis from claiming to be Mormons as well.

I might not be understanding what your saying here...but I think that Communism is an error in judgment, and Nazi's who support genocide have followed their error in judgment to a point of hate.  I don't think you can believe in "Love God and Love Your Neighbor as Yourself" and be a Nazi.  You could love others and be a Communist.  If you are Communist because you genuinely think that is the best way to help the poor.  

Did I totally miss the point you were making?

[clbent04]

19 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Has anyone ever seen one, or met one?

Haha. This is phrased like spotting an LDS neo-Nazi in real life is like spotting an exotic animal in the wild. Steve Irwin's voice came to mind when I first read your comment above

Edited August 13, 2017 by clbent04

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I might not be understanding what your saying here...but I think that Communism is an error in judgment, and Nazi's who support genocide have followed their error in judgment to a point of hate.  I don't think you can believe in "Love God and Love Your Neighbor as Yourself" and be a Nazi.  You could love others and be a Communist.  If you are Communist because you genuinely think that is the best way to help the poor.  

Did I totally miss the point you were making?

I get what you're saying; but it sounds like you're suggesting that a Mormon communist can say "well, forget the abuses of the USSR and East Germany and Maoist China and North Korea and Vietnam--I'm not THAT kind of communist".

But are we sure these clowns on the alt-right can't similarly say "I'm not THAT kind of Nazi"? 

It seems to me that Communism is benefiting from a degree of refinement in apologetics (and sympathetic media coverage) that Naziism maybe hasn't experienced yet--at least, not in a publicly visible way.  But inevitably, they will.  What then?

Edited August 13, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

Sad. I don't know any neo-nazis. In fact, I don't know any racists either. Guess I'm lucky. 

[Rob Osborn]

Not really sure if we have self proclaimed Nazi Mormons in our midst but if there are they obviously cant be true disciples of Christ.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Rob Osborn

[Guest Godless]

2 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I get what you're saying; but it sounds like you're suggesting that a Mormon communist can say "well, forget the abuses of the USSR and East Germany and Maoist China and North Korea and Vietnam--I'm not THAT kind of communist".

But are we sure these clowns on the alt-right can't similarly say "I'm not THAT kind of Nazi"? 

It seems to me that Communism is benefiting from a degree of refinement in apologetics (and sympathetic media coverage) that Naziism maybe hasn't experienced yet--at least, not in a publicly visible way.  But inevitably, they will.  What then?

The way I see it (and I'm obviously biased), communism is a positive concept taken to a negative extreme, while Naziism is a negative concept taken to an even more negative extreme. 

[NeuroTypical]

3 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Not really sure if we have self proclaimed Nazi Mormons in our midst but if there are they obviously cant be true disciples of Christ.

Neo-Nazis.  Not Nazis.  Did you read Dr. Peterson's link?  If you did, do you think he's making up those people or those quotes?

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, Godless said:

The way I see it (and I'm obviously biased), communism is a positive concept taken to a negative extreme, while Naziism is a negative concept taken to an even more negative extreme. 

It depends on what you say the foundational concept is.  Communism = economic equality; Naziism = unity.  Both goals are laudable in and of themselves.  But there are costs to both; and to promote their goals both governments had to make national boogeymen of whatever minorities were available.  It's just that Commies picked their victims for primarily ideological reasons; whereas the Nazis picked them mainly along ethnic lines.

[Rob Osborn]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Neo-Nazis.  Not Nazis.  Did you read Dr. Peterson's link?  If you did, do you think he's making up those people or those quotes?

They are all in one the same so it doesnt matter what they are called. They are followers of Hitler and his ideals which is the doctrine of the devil.

[NeuroTypical]

Well, ok, but do you still doubt we have some in our midst?  I notice you didn't say whether or not you've read the link...

[Snigmorder]

I think if I met an LDS neo-Nazi I would keel over dead from neural vaporization due to the sheer paralyzing contradiction between neo-Nazi doctrine and the reality of the origin of spirits.

[Rob Osborn]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Well, ok, but do you still doubt we have some in our midst?  I notice you didn't say whether or not you've read the link...

I read the link but havent done my own research.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

7 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I get what you're saying; but it sounds like you're suggesting that a Mormon communist can say "well, forget the abuses of the USSR and East Germany and Maoist China and North Korea and Vietnam--I'm not THAT kind of communist".

Oh, yes, I see your point now. I think, for me at least, I was slow to make that connection becaiae while the Jews are careful to make sure were remember the Holocaust  (reasonably so) the abuses of Communism, while horrific, are not as widely discussed. When I think of Nazi's, my mind automatically goes to the Holocaust. Though I have heard horrific stories about Mao, in particular and other Communists, that connection is not as automatic.  Anyway I see where you are coming from now and agree.

[person0]

On 8/12/2017 at 11:32 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Has anyone ever seen one, or met one?

Do liberal democrats who vote in congruence with antisemitic liberals and policies count?  If so, I've never met him, but I'm fairly certain Harry Reid would count.  If you consider the number of people who agree with or espouse antisemitic policies, there are probably plenty of members of the Church who would fall in that category.  Although, to be 'fair', they do so unknowingly.  I would postulate that most of them do so because they are foolishly not paying enough attention to politics or the possible repercussions, and are lacking in understanding the importance of the Jews or of Israel.  Possibly in some twisted way are trying to hurry the second coming?

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

. . . self-described communists can be good Mormons. . .

I think self-described is the key word here.  They are self-described communists because they have never lived under communism, and have developed a fantastical idea of what it would be.  They are, for the most part, not 'real' communists.  However, someone who claims to seek or agree with the destruction of the Jews, is by default a real 'hater'.

A member who believes abortion should be discretionary is wrong, but can remain in good standing; a member who advises someone to get an abortion would generally be considered to be under condemnation.  In this same vein, I suppose a member who believes in neo-Nazism is very, very wrong, but might otherwise be able to remain in good standing, whereas a member who joins or promotes or participates in any antisemitic group will not truthfully pass their temple recommend interview.

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, person0 said:

Do liberal democrats who vote in congruence with antisemitic liberals and policies count?  If so, I've never met him, but I'm fairly certain Harry Reid would count.  If you consider the number of people who agree with or espouse antisemitic policies, there are probably plenty of members of the Church who would fall in that category.  Although, to be 'fair', they do so unknowingly.  I would postulate that most of them do so because they are foolishly not paying enough attention to politics or the possible repercussions, and are lacking in understanding the importance of the Jews or of Israel.  Possibly in some twisted way are trying to hurry the second coming?

I think self-described is the key word here.  They are self-described communists because they have never lived under communism, and have developed a fantastical idea of what it would be.  They are, for the most part, not 'real' communists.  However, someone who claims to seek or agree with the destruction of the Jews, is by default a real 'hater'.

A member who believes abortion should be discretionary is wrong, but can remain in good standing; a member who advises someone to get an abortion would generally be considered to be under condemnation.  In this same vein, I suppose a member who believes in neo-Nazism is very, very wrong, but might otherwise be able to remain in good standing, whereas a member who joins or promotes or participates in any antisemitic group will not truthfully pass their temple recommend interview.

Well, and my ignorance of neo-nazi dogma is almost nil.  I assume they aren't down with *killing* Jews, else they wouldn't spill so much ink in holicaust denial.  They obviously *dislike* Jews; but then--lots of folks on the right mistrust latinos and Muslims; and I've been hearing a lot of hate for conservatives and Russians coming from the left.  So aside from their choice of whipping-boy, what do neo-Nazis really believe?  Can one be a neo-Nazi but reject violence; and if so, where does that leave one's Church membership in comparison to a non-violent communist?

Edited August 14, 2017 by Just_A_Guy

[Mike]

I have no LDS acquaintances who proclaim themselves as neo-nazis nor admiration for Hitler on any level. I have acquaintances who at times in my life have expressed views that other races are inferior to the what they called the white race, that they are repulsed on some particular levels by some other races or ethnicities, or that God prefers whites.  

 

[prisonchaplain]

The closest I've encountered in the broader Christian world are those espousing Anglo-Israelism. They believe the lost tribes of Israel immigrated to areas that are now white, and so they must have been white initially. These types tend to reject modern Israelites as pretenders, and consider Semites to be non-white. The most ridiculous argument I heard was that the word "ADAM," according to the 3rd meaning in Strong's Dictionary, is "ruddy." Well, since whites are the only race that has a ruddy complexion, Adam and Eve must have been white. When I told this person I did not believe doctrine could be built on using a dictionary to translate God's word--especially digging into the weeds, by using 3rd meanings, he called me a Kennite (his version of cursing me, I believe). The fellow was in his 70s, so I felt more sad for him, then that he was dangerous.  :::sigh:::