Church Progression

[Grunt]

I use "progression" for lack of a better term.  What are the actual "rules", if there are any, for men?

Baptism, Confirmation, then Aaronic Priesthood.  Then limited use Temple Recommend.  After a period of time the Melchizedek Priesthood.  Then there is Endowment and other Temple Ordinances.  

I've heard there is a one year wait before Endowment.  Is that actually a "one-year" rule, or can you be Endowed after you receive the Melchizedek Priesthood?

[Guest MormonGator]

For me it went like this: 

Aaronic-August 2013

Melchizedek- November 2013

Endowment-August 2014

I always forget the terms of what priesthood is which, and I did baptisms for the dead sometime in late 2013. 

 

Edited March 25, 2018 by MormonGator

[Fether]

15 minutes ago, Grunt said:

I use "progression" for lack of a better term.  What are the actual "rules", if there are any, for men?

Baptism, Confirmation, then Aaronic Priesthood.  Then limited use Temple Recommend.  After a period of time the Melchizedek Priesthood.  Then there is Endowment and other Temple Ordinances.  

I've heard there is a one year wait before Endowment.  Is that actually a "one-year" rule, or can you be Endowed after you receive the Melchizedek Priesthood?

Everything, except the endowment, can and should be done as soon as one is able. The endowment can only be 1 year following baptism.

[person0]

Although it is customary to have someone attend the temple no sooner than a year after baptism, it does happen on rare occasion that someone is able to attend in less than a year.  In order to be permitted in under a year, you would usually need to petition the stake president, who would have to petition the General Authorities, and they would have to have reason to believe that you were ready, and that it would be beneficial to you to receive the endowment prior to the traditional one year timeline.

The endowment at its superficial level appears to be completely different than anything else we do in the Church.  The year waiting time helps reduce that if one takes advantage of the opportunity to learn and embrace the doctrines of the gospel.

[Jane_Doe]

Series of events (for a male):

1. Baby Blessing -- is totally optional happens usually as a baby, but can technically happen before age 8 (if desired).  After age 8 we just skip it.

2. Baptism

3. Confirmation

4.  Receive Aaronic Priesthood.  2-4   typically happen pretty close together (within a month).  

5. Then limited use Temple Recommend and using it-- we're going to encourage ASAP.

6. Patriarchal blessing  -- is not a saving ordinances, but a very cool and useful thing.  If you're interested in this, talk to your bishop about it.

7. Receive Melchizedek Priesthood.  -- I'm blanking on the timing here..    You DO need to be a Melchizedek Priesthood holder before going to the temple for your later ordinances.  

8.  Full use recommend - technically getting your full-use recommend, Washing & Anointing, and Endowment are three different events, but are super tied together.   The first time you'll use your full-use recommend is when you go to the temple for your own Washing & Anointing, followed right away by your own Endowment.    You do need to wait a year from baptism to your temple ordinances- this is to allow you some time to grow and catch your breath.  But you can start the prepertory process before the 1 year mark-- things like taking the Temple Prep class, your own studies, and solidifying testimony.   Besides the spiritual prep There all some logistics involved about going to the temple for the first time, which the Temple Prep class will walk you through.

9. Washing and Anointing (in the temple)  - same day as endowment.  

10.  Endowment  (in the temple)

11.  Sealings (whenever/to whomever applicable). 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[Grunt]

Thanks!

[Vort]

Jane_Doe's answer looks pretty thorough. FYI, active LDS young men graduating high school and going to college (university) normally receive the Melchizedek Priesthood after high school graduation and before going off to college. Occasionally, young men are ordained to the office of elder (i.e. receive the Melchizedek Priesthood) while still in high school. If the young men are leaving on a mission right after graduating high school, they will receive the Melchizedek Priesthood before going to the temple, usually some weeks or months before being set apart as a missionary.

An adult male convert will often receive the Aaronic Priesthood very soon after baptism, and may be given the opportunity to distribute the sacrament, set it up and take it down, and officiate (same as the young men of the Aaronic Priesthood). If he is worthy and active, he will normally receive the Melchizedek Priesthood about six months to a year after baptism. A year after baptism, the man is eligible to be recommended by his bishop and stake president for full temple attendance (i.e. washing, anointing, and receiving the endowment) and be sealed to his wife, if they both are worthy (and she has also been baptized for at least a year), and both of them to their children.

[Grunt]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

Jane_Doe's answer looks pretty thorough. FYI, active LDS young men graduating high school and going to college (university) normally receive the Melchizedek Priesthood after high school graduation and before going off to college. Occasionally, young men are ordained to the office of elder (i.e. receive the Melchizedek Priesthood) while still in high school. If the young men are leaving on a mission right after graduating high school, they will receive the Melchizedek Priesthood before going to the temple, usually some weeks or months before being set apart as a missionary.

An adult male convert will often receive the Aaronic Priesthood very soon after baptism, and may be given the opportunity to distribute the sacrament, set it up and take it down, and officiate (same as the young men of the Aaronic Priesthood). If he is worthy and active, he will normally receive the Melchizedek Priesthood about six months to a year after baptism. A year after baptism, the man is eligible to be recommended by his bishop and stake president for full temple attendance (i.e. washing, anointing, and receiving the endowment) and be sealed to his wife, if they both are worthy (and she has also been baptized for at least a year), and both of them to their children.

If a spouse isn't worthy, can one be sealed to children only?

[person0]

23 minutes ago, Grunt said:

If a spouse isn't worthy, can one be sealed to children only?

Unfortunately, not during mortality.  Children are always sealed to both of their parents simultaneously.  Syntactical technicality; parents are not sealed to their children.

EDIT:  I am not sealed to my mother, and might not be sealed to her during this life for this very reason.  Although we live and recognize families as being sealed, technically family sealing, as currently in practice, is directional up the chain back to Adam.

Edited March 25, 2018 by person0

[Just_A_Guy]

11 minutes ago, Grunt said:

If a spouse isn't worthy, can one be sealed to children only?

No, the sealing of a child by definition is done to *both* parents simultaneously.

FWIW, these are largely issues of policy rather than doctrine (maybe not the sealing-to-individual-parents thing, so much, but the other stuff).  When my parents married my Dad was inactive and had never been ordained to the priesthood at all.  (His mother was an inactive member married to a non-member, so it wasn’t really a churchgoing household.) He reactivated shortly after marrying my mom, but in those days (at least, in his area) apparently you didn’t get the MP until you had done two years as a deacon, two years as a teacher, and two years as a priest; the result of which was that he was only able to bless the youngest of his babies because he had just recently become an elder by the time his last kid was born.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Jane_Doe]

35 minutes ago, Grunt said:

If a spouse isn't worthy, can one be sealed to children only?

The following sealings are what take place:

Spouse to Spouse

Individual Child to Sealed Parents.    Example: Bobby Jr to Bobby Sr & Mary Sr.    A separate ordinance would take place for Mary Jr to Bobby Sr & Mary Sr.   

 

Sealings can be done in any order.   A prerequisite for this that all persons involved must have completed their individual necessary ordinances.  A couple of examples:

--For adult you to be sealed to your parents: 1) your parents must have completed their individual ordinances and been sealed together. 2) You must have completed your ordinances.  

--Your children can not be sealed to you & your wife at this time, because your wife & you aren't sealed.  

--If at a later date you and Mrs Grunt are sealed, your children can be sealed to your then--  pending they have completed any necessary ordinances themselves (such as a kid older than 8 is baptized & confirmed).  

 

I myself am waiting on my husband to be ready to be sealed to me (and then little girl), so I can understand any impatience.  But these as with all ordinances, these may or may not all take place during this life, but they will all eventually take place.  It's then up to the individuals involved to honor those bonds.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[person0]

43 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

he was only able to bless the youngest of his babies because he had just recently become an elder by the time his last kid was born.

Anecdotally, we have done the ordinance of baby blessing for each of our children on the day we adopt them.  None of our children have been adopted at birth, the oldest was 7 and we had the bishop come over to our house and we did the 'baby' blessing at that time.

Edited March 25, 2018 by person0

[Grunt]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

The following sealings are what take place:

Spouse to Spouse

Individual Child to Sealed Parents.    Example: Bobby Jr to Bobby Sr & Mary Sr.    A separate ordinance would take place for Mary Jr to Bobby Sr & Mary Sr.   

 

Sealings can be done in any order.   A prerequisite for this that all persons involved must have completed their individual necessary ordinances.  A couple of examples:

--For adult you to be sealed to your parents: 1) your parents must have completed their individual ordinances and been sealed together. 2) You must have completed your ordinances.  

--Your children can not be sealed to you & your wife at this time, because your wife & you aren't sealed.  

--If at a later date you and Mrs Grunt are sealed, your children can be sealed to your then--  pending they have completed any necessary ordinances themselves (such as a kid older than 8 is baptized & confirmed).  

 

I myself am waiting on my husband to be ready to be sealed to me (and then little girl), so I can understand any impatience.  But these as with all ordinances, these may or may not all take place during this life, but they will all eventually take place.  It's then up to the individuals involved to honor those bonds.

Thanks.  It's not as much impatience as not understanding.  I need a Mormon flowchart.  I'm sure @zil will be along after church with her fancy-schmancy pens to make one.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Grunt

[Vort]

2 hours ago, Grunt said:

If a spouse isn't worthy, can one be sealed to children only?

Others have already covered the topic, so I'll just echo that a person is sealed to his or her parents. One cannot be sealed to just one parent; the sealing of a child to a parent is more or less an extension of the sealing of a wife and a husband.

Children born to parents who are sealed to each other do not need to be sealed to those parents, because in effect they already are. Being "born in the covenant" of your parents' sealing is the divinely appointed way for children to be sealed to their parents. On Church records, in place of a date when such a child was sealed to his/her parents, you find the letters "BIC", meaning "born in the covenant". When a child is sealed to parents in the temple, they are specifically granted the rights and blessings bestowed by God upon children born in the covenant. Thus, a temple sealing to parents is exactly equivalent to being born to parents who are sealed to each other.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Vort

[Grunt]

It's still confusing to a guy that's only been a member for 93 days.

[zil]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

Thanks.  It's not as much impatience as not understanding.  I need a Mormon flowchart.  I'm sure @zil will be along after church with her fancy-schmancy pens to make one.

Is a flowchart made by a Mormon good enough?

I should probably preface this by saying that I have one of those little, not obnoxious "No Soliciting" signs on my door.  Didn't work.  So I made an 11x17 one which cites the city code in regards to soliciting.  You can read it from the sidewalk across the street.  It mostly works.  Since it doesn't completely work, I added a No Trespassing sign in the window.  Then my dad came home from the store saying "I saw this and thought of you" and handed me a Halloweeny sign that says "I'd turn back if I were you" which is in the window next to the No Trespassing sign.  I also have a doormat that says "Come Back With A Warrant".  Some people still don't get the idea, so....

[Guest MormonGator]

16 minutes ago, Grunt said:

It's still confusing to a guy that's only been a member for 93 days.

I've been in since 2013 and it's still confusing to me, so don't worry about it. 

[Vort]

1 hour ago, Grunt said:

It's still confusing to a guy that's only been a member for 93 days.

Two things make it confusing:

1. Any time you're getting used to a new system, there is an adjustment period.
2. (More importantly) If you look at things from a process perspective -- which is pretty much the normal way -- things get looking very confusing very fast. If instead you look at things from more of a principles perspective, things become much less mysterious.

So instead of approaching the problem from the perspective of "Which ordinances must I undergo and in what order?", it might be more profitable to ask, "What am I trying to accomplish, and how can I accomplish those things?"

What are we trying to achieve? We came from God, we came here to gain Godly characteristics and experience, and we are trying to go back to dwell with God as heirs of his greatest gift -- eternal life. That's really it. Everything falls under that umbrella, without exception.

What does "eternal life" mean? Well, that's a bit more tricky. We learn line upon line and precept upon precept what it means. Certainly it means to live in God's presence and enjoy his Spirit forever. Certainly it means to live in our family structures forever. Certainly it means to go on to perfection and happiness beyond what we presently understand.

How does one live forever in a family? What does that even mean? Again, we learn bit by bit. One thing we have learned is that it means the marital bond is eternal, and in fact that our spouse right now, today, can be our spouse in the eternities. This is why we "seal" husbands and wives together: We are creating an eternal unit, from which proceeds "eternal increase" in the form of our own children.

We also find that, in the eternities, the children are bound to their parents. In my view, if husband and wife are eternally sealed together, this binding of child to parent is inherent in the child's very creation. The very act of creating the child is an extension of the eternal covenant between husband and wife. It's as natural and obvious as the fact that the child's DNA comes from the parents. In my view, the two are actually quite similar.

What if a child is created outside such a covenant? There is no sealing from which that child was produced. Even if the parents are subsequently sealed to each other, the child still was not born within that covenant. Only children born after the sealing are an extension of that marital covenant. But the Father is merciful and loving to his children, including those born outside the eternal covenant. He has provided a way that children not born into an eternal covenant can be sealed into one anyway, and thus become just as if they were born into the covenant.

That's how I sort of structure things in my mind. Hope it's of some help.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Vort

[bytebear]

I am going to add that after Elder, one is made a High Priest.  This happens if you are called to a leadership position of Bishop (or counselor), since bishops have to be High Priests.  Generally, once one is older around the age of an empty nester, if you have not been called as bishop you will be ordained a High Priest.  You will then meet with the High Priest group rather than the Elders.   There is also a council of High Priests at the Stake level called... wait for it... The High Council.  Think of it like the Stake version of the 12 apostles (but without the prestige). 

You'll find the same organizational order throughout the church.  A president with two counselors and a council of leaders under that.  You see this at the top with the Prophet and 12 apostles.  Then you see it again with the the Presiding Bishopric, And then you have the quorum of the 70 (regional leaders where each group can have up to 70 members, although they usually have fewer than that).  And so, the Stake kind of works like a mini version of the general church, with a Stake President, a High Council, and then local bishoprics.  Back in the 70s, stakes also had local 70s, but they discontinued that practice.

Ok, so here's something to think about.  There are two priesthoods.  Aaronic and Melchezedic.  The Aaronic is for temporal (physical) needs, and the Melchezedic for spiritual needs. So, the AP physically prepares the sacrament, and physically performs baptism, and the bishop both local and general (an AP office) tends to the temporal needs of the church (welfare and such).  And the MP doe the spiritual tasks, like the laying on of hands, giving spiritual blessings, preaching the gospel (both callings of missionaries and apostles).   So, if the Bishop is an AP calling, why do you have to be a High Priest?  Well, because we aren't descendants of Aaron. The specific office is designated only to them, and since we aren't of the bloodline, one must be a High Priest to fulfill the calling. 

Now, here's some more trivia for you.  Look at the Salt Lake Temple. See that there are three spires to the East and three spires to the West.  The Eastern spires represent the MP and the president and two counselors. And the Western spires represent the AP and that presidency.   Older temples (the last one being the Los Angeles temple) were built with priesthood assembly halls, big conference rooms designed for instruction and training, and they had two sets of pulpits, one set at the East and the other at the West, and the benches were designed to flip over to face whichever direction was being used.  The Kirkland temple, the Salt Lake temple and the Los Angeles temple have these rooms. Not sure if any of the older temples still have them or if they have been renovated. 

[Vort]

28 minutes ago, bytebear said:

Generally, once one is older around the age of an empty nester, if you have not been called as bishop you will be ordained a High Priest.  You will then meet with the High Priest group rather than the Elders.

To clarify: Which quorum or group an adult man meets with is at the discretion of the stake president. I think it's likely that Grunt is already meeting with the high priests. Many men are requested (a.k.a. instructed) by the stake president to meet with the high priest group in their ward, even if they have not been ordained to the office of high priest. This is actually quite common.

28 minutes ago, bytebear said:

Back in the 70s, stakes also had local 70s, but they discontinued that practice.

To expand just a bit:

The offices of the Melchizedek Priesthood as they have been given to us include elder, high priest, patriarch, seventy, and apostle.

• The office of apostle is the "highest" office, in that it encompasses the duties of all the others in addition to its own specific duties.
• The office of patriarch is, as far as I know, basically an extension of the office of high priest. The stake president (who holds the office of high priest, and generally not that of patriarch) can ordain a man in his stake to this office. That man, known then as the stake patriarch, is authorized to offer patriarchal blessings to members of that stake.
• The office of high priest is sort of the basic office of stake governance. An area of the world, like a city, generally does not have any high priests until a stake is created. All stake-level Priesthood leadership, as well as all bishopric members and high priest group leadership, must hold the office of high priest.
• The office of elder is the fundamental office of the Melchizedek Priesthood. With only the rarest of exceptions, this is the office that all men are ordained into when they receive the Melchizedek Priesthood. This office includes all the authority necessary for a man to act in any ordinary Priesthood calling -- most importantly, in his home.

The office of seventy was, for many decades, considered a stake-level office, like that of high priest. Just as each stake has one high priests quorum, each stake had one seventies quorum. Elders were called at the stake president's discretion to serve as seventies, and were ordained to that office. As I recall, their main focus was missionary work. If a man in the office of seventy were called to a leadership position in the stake, he would be ordained a high priest; thus, the office of seventy was considered above that of elder but below that of high priest.

In the mid-1980s, stake seventies quorums were discontinued, and their members were assigned to their ward's elders quorum, or were ordained high priests at the stake president's discretion. The priesthood office of seventy was reclassified as a general authority-level office, similar to the office of apostle. In effect, the office of seventy is today considered above that of high priest.

(In discussing one office as being "above" another, I don't mean to imply that the Priesthood authority is greater or that the men in the "higher" office are morally superior to those in the "lower" office. Neither thing is true. The Priesthood authority is one; the newest ordained elder has as much Priesthood authority as the president of the Church. And men are righteous or wicked according to their choices, not their Priesthood office.)

28 minutes ago, bytebear said:

So, if the Bishop is an AP calling, why do you have to be a High Priest?  Well, because we aren't descendants of Aaron. The specific office is designated only to them, and since we aren't of the bloodline, one must be a High Priest to fulfill the calling.

Also, the calling of "bishop" per se is as the president of the priests quorum, which is why "the Bishop" presides over the ward's Aaronic Priesthood. But "the Bishop" is also the presiding high priest over the ward, offering spiritual guidance for the ward members. For that calling, he must hold the office of high priest.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Vort