Sunday21 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 From the new policy : "At least two adults must be present on all church-sponsored activities attended by youth or children." Do we think that activities includes classes? JohnsonJones 1 Quote
Fether Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, Sunday21 said: Do we think that activities includes classes? Mmmm... naahh Sunday21 1 Quote
Jane_Doe Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 I think this will be elaborated on during this week's Conference. Midwest LDS and Sunday21 2 Quote
MrShorty Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 In the "Preventing and Responding to Abuse" document accompanying the letter, the bullet point before the one you quoted states: "When adults are teaching children or youth in church settings, at least two responsible adults should be present." If the statement you quoted does not apply to Sunday classes, then this statement pretty clearly does. Rather than "must" they use "should" in this case, so perhaps they are less worried about "classes" than "activities", so that units can individually decide if they really want to implement this in classes or not. Personally -- and maybe it is because I am a man and discussion is always about men as perps so I am becoming a little paranoid -- I don't want the option of teaching solo. I want protection for myself. Sunday21, zil, Midwest LDS and 1 other 4 Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, MrShorty said: . I want protection for myself. Yup, same here. The two months I was cub scout leader I demanded that two people were always there whenever we taught anything-my wife and some other person. It's nothing to do with church policies, it's common sense on my part. Personally, I'd like a rule that says 4+ adults in the room while all activities are video taped and recorded. Therefore, allegations of abuse will basically be null and void unless they really did happen! Edited March 30, 2018 by MormonGator Quote
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Sunday21 said: From the new policy : "At least two adults must be present on all church-sponsored activities attended by youth or children." Do we think that activities includes classes? For sometime it has been the policy in Primary that if the teacher is male that there must be two. That is both a protection for the children and for the male against false accusations. I'm fine with it being extended to women also. Quote
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 5 hours ago, MrShorty said: Personally -- and maybe it is because I am a man and discussion is always about men as perps so I am becoming a little paranoid -- I don't want the option of teaching solo. I want protection for myself. I don't blame you. I agree that the protection is for the men also. I don't want any of the fine, righteous men I know to face false accusations. I think your attitude will go a long way toward protecting you. For example, there is a brother in my ward who is always involved with kids in some way or another. Since sexual predators often find ways to be around children, for a hundredth of a second I wondered if this man could be a predator. Why did I only wonder for a hundredth of a second? Because I had observed that he was ALWAYS careful to have two-deep leadership when he was with kids. Predators don't do that. He is simply a good man that enjoys working with kids and youth. Quote
NeedleinA Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Sunday21 said: Do we think that activities includes classes? Yes, if I'm reading the release correctly. It states: Quote • When adults are teaching children or youth in Church settings, at least two responsible adults should be present. The two adults could be two men, two women, or a married couple (see Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 11.8.1). Where it may not be practical to have at least two adults in a classroom, leaders should consider combining classes. Edited March 30, 2018 by NeedleinA Jane_Doe and Sunday21 1 1 Quote
paracaidista508 Posted March 30, 2018 Report Posted March 30, 2018 Well for those who had their doubts, this certainly makes women equal to men in the church. None of us are trusted now lol... NeedleinA, Sunday21, seashmore and 1 other 4 Quote
seashmore Posted March 31, 2018 Report Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Jane_Doe said: I think this will be elaborated on during this week's Conference. I certainly hope so! Edited March 31, 2018 by seashmore Question answered in previous replies Sunday21 1 Quote
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 31, 2018 Report Posted March 31, 2018 I think this policy is wonderful. For any who think the MTC president was an isolated case....the last one is a story from this week. Database https://archive.org/details/INSTANCESOFCHILDSEXUALABUSEALLEGEDLYPERPETRATEDBYMEMBERSOFTHECHURCHOFJESUSCHRIST Lawsuit: Mormon Boys Molested at Maui Pineapple Farms https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/lawsuit-mormon-molested-maui_n_4656186.html Outcry as Utah Judge Calls Mormon Bishop Who Raped Girl "A Good Man" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/15/outcry-as-utah-judge-calls-mormon-bishop-who-raped-girl-a-good-man Sexual Abuse Case againat Mormon Church Begins in West Virginia https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/01/17/sexual-abuse-case-against-mormon-church-scheduled-to-begin-friday/?utm_term=.ebec2f11c88a Ex-Bishop - Prison Sex Abuse https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705271219/Ex-bishop-in-Harrisville-gets-prison-for-sex-abuse.html?pg=all Another Bishop - Sex abuse https://www.pe.com/2014/03/07/menifee-mormon-bishop-sentenced-to-three-years-for-sex-abuse-2/ Mormon Youth Leader - Sex Abuse https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/30/australian-filmmaker-gets-10-year-sentence-for-sexually-abusing-boys-some-of-whom-he-met-as-a-mormon-leader/ Seminary Principle gets time for abusing a student https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/30/australian-filmmaker-gets-10-year-sentence-for-sexually-abusing-boys-some-of-whom-he-met-as-a-mormon-leader/ Church pays $3 Millions to Settle Sexual Abuse Case https://mobile.nytimes.com/2001/09/05/us/mormons-paying-3-million-to-settle-sex-abuse-case.html?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F Native Americans - Sexual Abuse Lawsuit against the Church https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/why-some-native-americans-are-suing-the-mormon-church/504944/ Church Statement about Joseph Bishop 0 MTC President https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/statement-former-mission-president-alleged-abuse-joseph-l-bishop-march-2018 Primary teacher http://kutv.com/news/nation-world/lds-church-primary-teacher-arrested-in-texas-for-sexual-assault-of-a-child Quote
estradling75 Posted March 31, 2018 Report Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said: I think this policy is wonderful. For any who think the MTC president was an isolated case....the last one is a story from this week. Database https://archive.org/details/INSTANCESOFCHILDSEXUALABUSEALLEGEDLYPERPETRATEDBYMEMBERSOFTHECHURCHOFJESUSCHRIST Lawsuit: Mormon Boys Molested at Maui Pineapple Farms https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/23/lawsuit-mormon-molested-maui_n_4656186.html Outcry as Utah Judge Calls Mormon Bishop Who Raped Girl "A Good Man" https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/15/outcry-as-utah-judge-calls-mormon-bishop-who-raped-girl-a-good-man Sexual Abuse Case againat Mormon Church Begins in West Virginia https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2018/01/17/sexual-abuse-case-against-mormon-church-scheduled-to-begin-friday/?utm_term=.ebec2f11c88a Ex-Bishop - Prison Sex Abuse https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705271219/Ex-bishop-in-Harrisville-gets-prison-for-sex-abuse.html?pg=all Another Bishop - Sex abuse https://www.pe.com/2014/03/07/menifee-mormon-bishop-sentenced-to-three-years-for-sex-abuse-2/ Mormon Youth Leader - Sex Abuse https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/30/australian-filmmaker-gets-10-year-sentence-for-sexually-abusing-boys-some-of-whom-he-met-as-a-mormon-leader/ Seminary Principle gets time for abusing a student https://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/10/30/australian-filmmaker-gets-10-year-sentence-for-sexually-abusing-boys-some-of-whom-he-met-as-a-mormon-leader/ Church pays $3 Millions to Settle Sexual Abuse Case https://mobile.nytimes.com/2001/09/05/us/mormons-paying-3-million-to-settle-sex-abuse-case.html?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F Native Americans - Sexual Abuse Lawsuit against the Church https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/10/why-some-native-americans-are-suing-the-mormon-church/504944/ Church Statement about Joseph Bishop 0 MTC President https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/statement-former-mission-president-alleged-abuse-joseph-l-bishop-march-2018 Primary teacher http://kutv.com/news/nation-world/lds-church-primary-teacher-arrested-in-texas-for-sexual-assault-of-a-child Okay @LiterateParakeet You just invoked the challenge I gave you here https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/64368-the-mtc-abuse-story/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-961213 Quote
NeuroTypical Posted March 31, 2018 Report Posted March 31, 2018 It is true that one is too many. It is also true that, statistically speaking, this almost never happens. Estradling's challenge is relevant. LP's dozen examples are important. But yeah, in a church of almost 16 million, of over 30,000 congregations, this almost never happens. Again, it is true that more than zero, is too many. Again, it is true that this almost never happens. Both of these things are true, at the same time. If one cannot hold both of those truths in their head at the same time, one is having a problem that one should resolve, because one is in the wrong and shutting themselves off from truth, and there's no good reason for that. Perspective is important. Truth matters. Accurate understanding of issues are critical if one is to be of any use in addressing them. MrShorty and Midwest LDS 2 Quote
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 31, 2018 Report Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, estradling75 said: Okay @LiterateParakeet You just invoked the challenge I gave you here https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/64368-the-mtc-abuse-story/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-961213 My response is - See Neurotypical's post above. Quote
estradling75 Posted March 31, 2018 Report Posted March 31, 2018 4 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said: My response is - See Neurotypical's post above. Had your post shown the same balance as Neurotypical's then I would not have felt mine was needed. The simple fact is the membership of the forum repeatedly talk about such issues, and the Church's new and adjusting policies toward them. Thus showing a great deal of awareness about the problem Quote
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted March 31, 2018 Report Posted March 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, estradling75 said: Had your post shown the same balance as Neurotypical's I lack Neurotypical's finesse. Tis true. Quote
mikegriffith Posted April 1, 2018 Report Posted April 1, 2018 This is a wise policy. It provides protection against false accusations. In our ward, if two adults are not available to teach a Primary class, the teacher must leave the door partially open. Sunday21 1 Quote
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