"Protect Children" founder starts a hunger strike

[Guest MormonGator]

http://kutv.com/news/local/protect-lds-children-initiative-launches-hunger-strike-sunday

This is a big step to take. Bobby Sands died during one. 

[lostinwater]

32 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

http://kutv.com/news/local/protect-lds-children-initiative-launches-hunger-strike-sunday

This is a big step to take. Bobby Sands died during one. 

Scuttlebutt around the apostate underworld is that there will be a big announcement also tomorrow.  Who knows... 

Regardless, i hope that change (which i think is very much needed) can be effected in a way that does not humiliate, keeps the door open for more positive change, and results in an overall reduction in animosity going forward. 

Actions like these are certainly more helpful/effective than protesting by yelling during the supporting votes of a general conference.

[NeuroTypical]

 

Quote

“All institutional churches in America have already implemented clear policies to curb abuse and protect children except the Mormon Church. That is not acceptable and we must have real change now,” Young said.

 

Well good for him.  Now, maybe, our church will finally start having links like this:

PREVENTING AND RESPONDING TO ABUSE  - Mormonnewsroom

Quote

This document summarizes current Church policies and guidelines on abuse. All priesthood and auxiliary leaders should be familiar with and follow them to help protect God’s children.

 

Protect the Child  - LDS.org Media Library

Quote

This video discusses the responsibilities of ward and branch councils in regards to preventing child abuse.

 

How the Church Approaches Abuse - Mormonnewsroom

 

oh wait...

[Guest MormonGator]

@NeuroTypical and @Vort will be joining him outside the church in Salt Lake City tomorrow. 

[NeuroTypical]

Actually, there are more of us now. 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Actually, there are more of us now. 

That's you holding the God Hates Kittens sign, right? 

No, I'm sorry. That's @mirkwood

[mirkwood]

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

That's you holding the God Hates Kittens sign, right? 

No, I'm sorry. That's @mirkwood

Oh come on...everyone knows God hates dogs.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I think the hunger strike is a mistake.  It's basically a hostage situation with yourself as the hostage.  I think most organizations do not/should not negotiate with kidnappers (or hunger strikers).  If you do give kidnappers what they want, you encourage more kidnapping.  If the church responded to this, there would be more hunger strikes in the future trying to get the church to change policies, and that is not how the church operates, as we all know.

When I worked as a Correctional Officer (you say guard, I say officer, LOL)....we were taught, "If ever there is a hostage situation, get down on the floor because we don't negotiate and we will come in with guns blazing."  

[Guest MormonGator]

55 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

  It's basically a hostage situation with yourself as the hostage

That's a great point. 

[lostinwater]

3 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

When I worked as a Correctional Officer (you say guard, I say officer, LOL)....we were taught, "If ever there is a hostage situation, get down on the floor because we don't negotiate and we will come in with guns blazing."  

Reminds me of the book "Blood in the Water" about the Attica Prison Riot.  i have a ton of respect for people like yourself who do this job.  i never realized just how fraught with danger it was - and all of the sacrifices/meaningful impact a good officer makes.

[estradling75]

17 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

 

Well good for him.  Now, maybe, our church will finally start having links like this:

PREVENTING AND RESPONDING TO ABUSE  - Mormonnewsroom

 

Protect the Child  - LDS.org Media Library

 

How the Church Approaches Abuse - Mormonnewsroom

 

oh wait...

Yet they make the claim  "“All institutional churches in America have already implemented clear policies to curb abuse and protect children except the Mormon Church. That is not acceptable and we must have real change now,” Young said."  Clearly a lie and we know who the father of lies is

It is one thing to say they disagree with how it is handled... or that they want more to be done...  Those can make for good discussion points.  But to say that NOTHING is being done that the problem is being IGNORED in-spite of the very clear evidence to the contrary, means they are not interested in true and honest discussions help children.  It means they are after publicly and being seen of men...  Well they have their reward... and the church will continue to do its work and refine it's policies and they see the need.

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by estradling75

[NeuroTypical]

18 hours ago, lostinwater said:

Regardless, i hope that change (which i think is very much needed) can be effected in a way that does not humiliate, keeps the door open for more positive change, and results in an overall reduction in animosity going forward. 

Just wondering, lost - were you aware of the links I posted?  Did you, like, search for them and couldn't find them?  Do you somehow believe they are not what they claim to be, or are somehow insufficient?

I'm confused at why you believe change is very much needed...

[lostinwater]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Just wondering, lost - were you aware of the links I posted?  Did you, like, search for them and couldn't find them?  Do you somehow believe they are not what they claim to be, or are somehow insufficient?

I'm confused at why you believe change is very much needed...

Thanks @NeuroTypical

My concern is less that a person is raped or otherwise abused physically in a bishop's office - though i imagine there's far too many people who have experienced that also - and more just the content discussed.  For most in this movement, i think that's what their primary concern is also.

From their point of view, you have children/teens, sitting alone, with a much older man they barely know but believes speaks for God, being asked about, and feeling as though they had to admit to things of a sexual nature - in a way that burns shame into the deepest parts of their souls.  And that's no jab at bishops in general.

i guess our viewpoints are largely the result of our own/the experiences of those we interact with most closely. When i say i think change is much needed, it is because for the people i know, it *is* needed.  

i imagine all these people to the active member seem like unrepentant rebels without causes, full of malice and sour grapes at being told what to do.  But it sure looks differently when you are one of the people with a not-so-great bishop, or are the hypersensitive and shame-prone teen - or ten dozen other possibilities.  

Certainly, a counter-narrative exists.  And maybe it's the respectful exchange of and acknowledgment of the real and tangible nature of each narrative that results in good policy.  

Honestly though, i could and should have done a better job at making my statement that change was needed sound more like a hope/suggestion based on my experiences, and less like an indignant and angry scream.  So i owe every here an apology for that.

[BJ64]

I never could understand hunger strikes. Why would anyone care if someone wants to starve themself?

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, BJ64 said:

I never could understand hunger strikes. Why would anyone care if someone wants to starve themself?

Yeah, it's fun to watch someone die, isn't it? 

[BJ64]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Yeah, it's fun to watch someone die, isn't it? 

You don’t have to watch. 

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, BJ64 said:

You don’t have to watch. 

Matthew 5:44 comes to mind. 

[BJ64]

22 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Matthew 5:44 comes to mind. 

I guess you could pray for them but I don’t see why you would give in to their demands. If they want to kill themselves that would be their doing. 

[NeuroTypical]

13 hours ago, BJ64 said:

I never could understand hunger strikes. Why would anyone care if someone wants to starve themself?

It is a manipulative tactic, designed to garner media attention and produce sympathy for your agenda.  

Since it forced the church to respond, you can see hunger strikes can be pretty effective manipulative tactics. 

[estradling75]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Since it forced the church to respond, you can see hunger strikes can be pretty effective manipulative tactics. 

While it might have forced a "response"  However the response was classic.

It said here is what we are already doing and have in our handbooks and everything.  Showing that the most damaging accusation (that the church doesn't care is doing nothing) is patently false. While granting the man nothing beyond what they were already doing.

Now the man has a choice... He can try to claim victory while having gotten nothing, he can fade away and resume eating out of the spot light, or he can starve.

[BJ64]

7 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

While it might have forced a "response"  However the response was classic.

It said here is what we are already doing and have in our handbooks and everything.  Showing that the most damaging accusation (that the church doesn't care is doing nothing) is patently false. While granting the man nothing beyond what they were already doing.

Now the man has a choice... He can try to claim victory while having gotten nothing, he can fade away and resume eating out of the spot light, or he can starve.

Yes, I read the response and it was basically nothing new. 

[Fether]

So is he still starving himself??

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

So is he still starving himself??

If he's still doing it by Saturday, I'll join him after dinner.  I'll dedicate my hunger to the safety of Bishops and Children.

[Fether]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

If he's still doing it by Saturday, I'll join him after dinner.  I'll dedicate my hunger to the safety of Bishops and Children.

If you fast for the same cause as someone who is in hunger strike, would that mean you are “affiliated” with a person who’s views are contrary to that of the church?

[BJ64]

19 minutes ago, Fether said:

If you fast for the same cause as someone who is in hunger strike, would that mean you are “affiliated” with a person who’s views are contrary to that of the church?

This is the question for youth limited use recommends as written in the new youth interview instructions. 

1. Do you support any group or person whose teachings oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

I don’t know if they plan to change the temple recommend question but you can see that it is simpler than the question we are used to. Note the affiliate part is no included as well as the wording “practices”.