Self-harm and Suicide

[Traveler]

Thank you @pwrfrk @LiterateParakeet and @Jane_Doe for your post

I would add something to the discussion touched on by @LiterateParakeet about Jesus Christ.  When we understand his sacrifice and suffering for sins - it is not just our sins for which he suffered.  It is also important to understand that he suffered and paid the price (redeemed) for the sins of those that transgressed against us.  When we fail to forgive others of their transgressions against us it is also a failure to accept the sacrifice and the price Jesus suffered to free us from the transgress against us as much as to free us from our own transgressions.  This means that when we fail to forgive others we reject (deny the Christ) Jesus and his sacrifice.  If there is a hierarchy of sins - denying the Christ and his redeeming sacrifice is one of the greatest transgressions.

 

The Traveler

[MaryJehanne]

On 9/9/2018 at 12:47 AM, Petty3 said:

Is self-harm a sin?  (Cutting oneself with a knife or other harm)

What about sucuide?  Is that a sin?

 I've heard conflicting answers on that.  I know that most people who kill themselves have mental health issues and luckily we don't have to be the judge.  Just wondering your opinions.  I've never heard one way or the other about a person harming themselves though.

Self-harm and suicide are sinful matter (read: contrary to God's Will) because they are against just love of self. It's sinful to harm (unless, of course, it's in self-defense) or murder another person; it's sinful to harm (for self-centric reasons: out of despair, self-hatred, etc.) or murder yourself. Would you torture another person? Then why is it less evil to torture yourself?

You are created in the image and likeness of God, made for love out of love! To harm yourself is an offense against God, because you do not love yourself as He intended, and hate His beloved creation, you. To murder yourself is to refuse the very life He granted you, to reject His Will for you to live.

Sometimes people who commit suicide do not have a mental illness (Like, for instance, Hitler. Though maybe that's arguable?). But if they do have health issues regarding the functioning of their brain, that can compromise their free-will, thus lessening their culpability. We can always have faith and trust in God that someone who's committed suicide may be saved, because, even if they didn't have an illness that may have influenced them, they still may have repented in the moments before death, after their act. We should never rely on that for ourselves or in seeking to help other people, though. The matter is sinful. And if we have any awareness of this fact, we should exercise our wills and not do it, for our sake and for God. For harm, that's in the same vein, though it hasn't gone as far. 

@Jane_Doe was perfectly right; a person needs to seek treatment and engage in prayer! Counseling of some sort is near indispensable, and of course a renewed focus on God's love for you and cultivation of your love for God is vitally important. Trust in him, pray to Him. He never turns away a contrite and trusting soul. No matter how bleak things seem, He will help.

I don't know how much that added to the conversation, but hopefully it helped. God bless!

[Rob Osborn]

Im not so sure suicide is a sin. Having had a close friend and family member committ suicide and having to overcome great feelings of dread and depression myself I can say that usually a person who goes through with suicide was to ease otherwise overwhelming and inescapable feelings. If a suicidal person doesnt have extremely great relations with close friends and family it will succumb them and they will search for any way out. Its the most awful dread. I can hardly believe for a second that wanting to escape that terror and find peace is a sin.

[MaryJehanne]

7 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Im not so sure suicide is a sin. Having had a close friend and family member committ suicide and having to overcome great feelings of dread and depression myself I can say that usually a person who goes through with suicide was to ease otherwise overwhelming and inescapable feelings. If a suicidal person doesnt have extremely great relations with close friends and family it will succumb them and they will search for any way out. Its the most awful dread. I can hardly believe for a second that wanting to escape that terror and find peace is a sin.

Yes, as a Catholic, I distinguish between sin and sinful matter. Sin is the subjective guilt on a person's soul. Matter is the objective truth of the morality of the act.

Murder is always objectively wrong, regardless of why someone does it or to whom they do it (whether it's a stranger, a family member, or oneself). But, an objectively grave act does not always result in actual guilt.

For instance, the objective loss of life, an offense against God and creation, is an evil. But, is a person aware of that, and do they fully and freely will it? For most people an most cultures, we know killing people is really bad. So, generally knowledge is covered. But, let's say, a person is compromised by emotion or even an altered mental state, such as delusions? Can we say they fully desired their death? Maybe. Can we say they freely willed their death? For this, it's quite possible that they did not... Their will may have been impaired or influenced by a broken brain. In this way, for instance, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that Robin Williams was impaired when he commit suicide, and so he may not have been guilty of grave sin.

This is all from a Catholic perspective, though, so I don't know if that's in opposition to Latter-day Saint teachings.

Anyway, God bless!

[Rob Osborn]

8 minutes ago, MaryJehanne said:

Yes, as a Catholic, I distinguish between sin and sinful matter. Sin is the subjective guilt on a person's soul. Matter is the objective truth of the morality of the act.

Murder is always objectively wrong, regardless of why someone does it or to whom they do it (whether it's a stranger, a family member, or oneself). But, an objectively grave act does not always result in actual guilt.

For instance, the objective loss of life, an offense against God and creation, is an evil. But, is a person aware of that, and do they fully and freely will it? For most people an most cultures, we know killing people is really bad. So, generally knowledge is covered. But, let's say, a person is compromised by emotion or even an altered mental state, such as delusions? Can we say they fully desired their death? Maybe. Can we say they freely willed their death? For this, it's quite possible that they did not... Their will may have been impaired or influenced by a broken brain. In this way, for instance, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that Robin Williams was impaired when he commit suicide, and so he may not have been guilty of grave sin.

This is all from a Catholic perspective, though, so I don't know if that's in opposition to Latter-day Saint teachings.

Anyway, God bless!

My son who is about to be divorced had an extremely rough time dealing with his wife cheating on him. He told me he now knows what its like for those who think to committ suicide or even go through with it. He said if it wasnt for us and our great love and reaching out to him he may have killed himself. My views on suicidal thoughts have changed over the years as a result of experiences I have had. Suicide may be wrong but I am convinced its not a sin. A sin is best defined as ":a wicked act.". People who have suicidal thoughts are usually at the butt end of anothers wicked act- the direct result of anothers infliction of evil upon them.. Something to think about...

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, MaryJehanne said:

This is all from a Catholic perspective, though, so I don't know if that's in opposition to Latter-day Saint teachings.

The LDS perspective is simpler: God is the judge.  Yes, obviously hurting or killing yourself is not something God wishes for a person.  But it's also something a healthy person isn't going to do.  We on the outside aren't in any place to judge another's actions, and especially not when there's mental illness involved.  

[MaryJehanne]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

My son who is about to be divorced had an extremely rough time dealing with his wife cheating on him. He told me he now knows what its like for those who think to committ suicide or even go through with it. He said if it wasnt for us and our great love and reaching out to him he may have killed himself. My views on suicidal thoughts have changed over the years as a result of experiences I have had. Suicide may be wrong but I am convinced its not a sin. A sin is best defined as ":a wicked act.". People who have suicidal thoughts are usually at the butt end of anothers wicked act- the direct result of anothers infliction of evil upon them.. Something to think about...

I'm very sorry about that.   I hope your son is doing better now.

There are many people who have these experiences without explicitly mentioning it. In fact, in these days or at least in my generation, it seems many if not most people have. Believe me, there are people who have directly been through depression and thoughts of harm and death who affirm the disordered nature of the act. Of course, temptations to suicide and self-harm are not sinful in matter at all. It's only the entertainment and intentional enjoyment of them, the desire for our wills (death) over God's (to live). Sadness is a form of suffering, and death and even pain can be an escape. But sometimes we have to choose God's desire over our own (Jesus suffered a distress so great that he sweat blood as he prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane. But did he stop the suffering or continue to endure?). And, of course, someone else's evil does not justify our own (they may be, instead, acting as temptations), and as we could not murder them for causing us extreme emotional distress, we cannot murder ourselves.

Of course, we are sympathetic for the sufferings of the individual. And doubly sorry if they've despaired, rejecting their hope in God, and decided to end their life. But I can do all that, hope and pray that they were either not guilty of the act or repented, and still not condone the evil.

Again, while affirming the objective wickedness of the act (matter), I do not judge the subjective guilt of a person. So, while suicide is grave matter, John Doe, who commits suicide, may not have committed a mortal sin. (Is this maybe a concept that's different than the Latter-day Saint teaching?)

Of course, our religious differences are probably playing into the disagreement here! Our Church has definitively spoken on the nature of suicide; I don't know if the Latter-day Saint hierarchy has!

God bless!

 

[MaryJehanne]

43 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

The LDS perspective is simpler: God is the judge.  Yes, obviously hurting or killing yourself is not something God wishes for a person.  But it's also something a healthy person isn't going to do.  We on the outside aren't in any place to judge another's actions, and especially not when there's mental illness involved.  

Thank you, Jane_Doe!

That is similar to the Catholic position, then! (evil in matter, though only God knows a person's true level of culpability)

Although, especially in our day and age, it's often a person struggling with an illness (e.i. a mental illness that's affecting their decision making) who wants to end their life, it's not always the case. For instance, actor George Sanders left this in one of his suicide notes:

"Dear World, I am leaving because I am bored. I feel I have lived long enough. I am leaving you with your worries in this sweet cesspool. Good luck."

Suicide is despair (not just the feeling of despair, but intellectual despair). And so it can have very human motivations, beyond mental illness. Someone may be tempted under emotional distress, but that's not the same as mental illness, and emotions are almost always (if not always) a factor in coercing someone towards committing any evil.

God bless!

Edited September 11, 2018 by MaryJehanne

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, MaryJehanne said:

Thank you, Jane_Doe!

That is similar to the Catholic position, then! (evil in matter, though only God knows a person's true level of culpability)

Not quite.

For an LDS, is is WRONG to say that a person who committed suicide committed a mortal sin.  Both because LDS don't classify sins mortal vs not, and because we are not to judge another here.  

Edited September 12, 2018 by Jane_Doe

[MaryJehanne]

2 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Not quite.

For an LDS, is is WERONG to say that a person who committed suicide committed a mortal sin.  Both because LDS don't classify sins mortal vs not, and because we are not to judge another here.  

Ah, yes! No concept of mortal sins outside of Catholicism, really.  A couple Protestant denominations may still have it, but I’m not sure... And the Eastern Orthodox do, of course.

Although, I’d still insist we never say someone committed a mortal sin. We would never say “Gosh, didn’t you hear? Jimmy committed a mortal sin... suicide, you know.” That doesn’t happen. It’s actual IMMORAL to say that. We don’t know. That’s where the concept of matter vs. culpability comes in, but I don’t think I’m explaining that well.

 

[Jane_Doe]

23 minutes ago, MaryJehanne said:

Ah, yes! No concept of mortal sins outside of Catholicism, really.  A couple Protestant denominations may still have it, but I’m not sure... And the Eastern Orthodox do, of course.

Although, I’d still insist we never say someone committed a mortal sin. We would never say “Gosh, didn’t you hear? Jimmy committed a mortal sin... suicide, you know.” That doesn’t happen. It’s actual IMMORAL to say that. We don’t know. That’s where the concept of matter vs. culpability comes in, but I don’t think I’m explaining that well.

 

Ah, ok.  You have a different take on Catholicism than most Catholics I know.  It's a very varied tent

[JohnsonJones]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:47 PM, Petty3 said:

Is self-harm a sin?  (Cutting oneself with a knife or other harm)

What about sucuide?  Is that a sin?

 I've heard conflicting answers on that.  I know that most people who kill themselves have mental health issues and luckily we don't have to be the judge.  Just wondering your opinions.  I've never heard one way or the other about a person harming themselves though.

If you are self-harming I would highly suggest that you get help from a counselor trained in these things.

If you are considering suicide or have a plan on how to enact suicide, PLEASE call 1-800-273-8255  Immediately.

Self-abuse is covered in the Bible. 

Suicide as discussed in the church has changed in direction.  It used to be universally condemned.  The reason is the same that it has always been considered a sin in Christianity.  This is that killing someone without commandment from the Lord is taking something the Lord has given them.  It is the same with us, the Lord gave us our lives.  Thus, to take this away is taking something that we have no right to take.  The problem with suicide is there is no mortality to try to repent of it, as we have destroyed that mortality by the very act.

The LDS church has slowly backed away from this stance over the past few decades. 

It changed at first that if done with full knowledge, it was a sin.  However, there were instances where the person may not be in full control of the faculties or were incapable of making logical decisions may not be included with that.

This narrative has changed today.  I don't talk about things much, but in a recent discussion an apostle made some comments.  It was NOT in regards to someone suffering, but my impression was discussing the perceptions of those who were around someone who was suffering or had committed suicide.  Their words was that the church does NOT condemn these individuals and that they are normally not in control of themselves when the do these acts.  Either emotionally or mentally they have lost control of their ability to be held accountable.  Those who commit suicide will have the opportunities to grow in the afterlife and achieve the most they could.  They are the Children of God just as the rest of us are, and he loves them greatly.

This is NOT a get out of jail free card though.  It does NOT give anyone permission to commit suicide and if you are considering it, once again, PLEASE at least make an attempt to call the National hotline at 1-800-273-8255.

This is not something that comes up on a Temple Recommend.  You are free to discuss it with your Bishop and they would be willing to help you, HOWEVER, be aware that they are normally not trained mental health professionals.  A good Bishop will probably refer that you see one.

If you are suffering from considering suicide or Self Harm or Self Abuse (and it does not just have to be cutting, there are many forms of self-harm) PLEASE, see a Mental Health Counselor as soon as you can. 

I am NOT a trained mental health counselor and as such, I cannot give you any good advice on this, but a Mental Health Counselor CAN.  If you are dealing with the after effects of someone else committing suicide they can also assist you.  Finally, if you KNOW someone who is self harming or thinking about committing suicide, please encourage them to contact someone in Mental Health.  If they have a plan and seem intent on conducting it, sit with them if need be and CALL the national hotline together if need be.

From what I see there is also a chat available at the upper right corner at

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

[MaryJehanne]

13 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Ah, ok.  You have a different take on Catholicism than most Catholics I know.  It's a very varied tent

I’m just giving the Catholic teaching. I certainly didn’t come up with this stuff! I’m not sure what you’ve heard, but the Catholics you were speaking to might just not have been informed very well in this area. 

Here’s a video that explains what I was trying to get at earlier, and maybe does it better than I did!

https://www.catholic.com/video/can-you-make-judgements-about-human-behavior

 

God bless!

 

[anatess2]

13 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

Ah, ok.  You have a different take on Catholicism than most Catholics I know.  It's a very varied tent

That's interesting.  @MaryJehanne is stating the basic Catholic doctrine on this that all Catholics should know.

It might be that you're misunderstanding what she's saying.  We certainly DO judge whether something is a sin or not.  That's how we know not to do it.  Drinking coffee for an LDS is a sin, that's why we don't do it.  Whether John Doe's drinking of coffee is a sin is not for us to judge but for Christ.  That still doesn't make the statement that drinking coffee is a sin false.  That is what MaryJehanne is saying.

[MaryJehanne]

42 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That's interesting.  @MaryJehanne is stating the basic Catholic doctrine on this that all Catholics should know.

It might be that you're misunderstanding what she's saying.  We certainly DO judge whether something is a sin or not.  That's how we know not to do it.  Drinking coffee for an LDS is a sin, that's why we don't do it.  Whether John Doe's drinking of coffee is a sin is not for us to judge but for Christ.  That still doesn't make the statement that drinking coffee is a sin false.  That is what MaryJehanne is saying.

Yes, thank you, Anatess!

 

[NeuroTypical]

Always good to have some basic "how to judge righteously" in conversations like this.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1999/08/judge-not-and-judging  A summary:

Quote

Let us consider some principles or ingredients that lead to a “righteous judgment.”

First, a righteous judgment must, by definition, be intermediate. It will refrain from declaring that a person has been assured of exaltation or from dismissing a person as being irrevocably bound for hellfire. 

Second, a righteous judgment will be guided by the Spirit of the Lord, not by anger, revenge, jealousy, or self-interest. 

Third, to be righteous, an intermediate judgment must be within our stewardship. 

Fourth, we should, if possible, refrain from judging until we have adequate knowledge of the facts. 

A fifth principle of a righteous intermediate judgment is that whenever possible we will refrain from judging people and only judge situations. 

Sixth, forgiveness is a companion principle to the commandment that in final judgments we judge not and in intermediate judgments we judge righteously. 

Seventh, a final ingredient or principle of a righteous judgment is that it will apply righteous standards. 

If you are missing one or more of those, judge all you want, but you're bein' a sinny sinner doing sinful things and need to go stop sinning.  If you have all seven, then it is a commandment to judge, and if you don't, then you're also sinnin'.  

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

5 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

f you are missing one or more of those, judge all you want, but you're bein' a sinny sinner doing sinful things and need to go stop sinning.  If you have all seven, then it is a commandment to judge, and if you don't, then you're also sinnin'. 

I love that you keep reminding us of this list.  I hope you will continue!!!

[Petty3]

On 9/12/2018 at 3:35 AM, JohnsonJones said:

If you are self-harming I would highly suggest that you get help from a counselor trained in these things.

If you are considering suicide or have a plan on how to enact suicide, PLEASE call 1-800-273-8255  Immediately.

Self-abuse is covered in the Bible. 

Suicide as discussed in the church has changed in direction.  It used to be universally condemned.  The reason is the same that it has always been considered a sin in Christianity.  This is that killing someone without commandment from the Lord is taking something the Lord has given them.  It is the same with us, the Lord gave us our lives.  Thus, to take this away is taking something that we have no right to take.  The problem with suicide is there is no mortality to try to repent of it, as we have destroyed that mortality by the very act.

The LDS church has slowly backed away from this stance over the past few decades. 

It changed at first that if done with full knowledge, it was a sin.  However, there were instances where the person may not be in full control of the faculties or were incapable of making logical decisions may not be included with that.

This narrative has changed today.  I don't talk about things much, but in a recent discussion an apostle made some comments.  It was NOT in regards to someone suffering, but my impression was discussing the perceptions of those who were around someone who was suffering or had committed suicide.  Their words was that the church does NOT condemn these individuals and that they are normally not in control of themselves when the do these acts.  Either emotionally or mentally they have lost control of their ability to be held accountable.  Those who commit suicide will have the opportunities to grow in the afterlife and achieve the most they could.  They are the Children of God just as the rest of us are, and he loves them greatly.

This is NOT a get out of jail free card though.  It does NOT give anyone permission to commit suicide and if you are considering it, once again, PLEASE at least make an attempt to call the National hotline at 1-800-273-8255.

This is not something that comes up on a Temple Recommend.  You are free to discuss it with your Bishop and they would be willing to help you, HOWEVER, be aware that they are normally not trained mental health professionals.  A good Bishop will probably refer that you see one.

If you are suffering from considering suicide or Self Harm or Self Abuse (and it does not just have to be cutting, there are many forms of self-harm) PLEASE, see a Mental Health Counselor as soon as you can. 

I am NOT a trained mental health counselor and as such, I cannot give you any good advice on this, but a Mental Health Counselor CAN.  If you are dealing with the after effects of someone else committing suicide they can also assist you.  Finally, if you KNOW someone who is self harming or thinking about committing suicide, please encourage them to contact someone in Mental Health.  If they have a plan and seem intent on conducting it, sit with them if need be and CALL the national hotline together if need be.

From what I see there is also a chat available at the upper right corner at

https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

I don't think the suicide hotline helps much.  I've called it before.  Once when I was sitting with bottles of pills in my hand and a plan to die.  I ended  hanging up on them because they couldn't say anything that had meaning to me.  

I do have a counselor my bishop referred me to and she's been helpful.  Just when I dip and get really down I don't want to talk to her and that's when I start cutting myself.

[Jane_Doe]

7 minutes ago, Petty3 said:

I don't think the suicide hotline helps much.  I've called it before.  Once when I was sitting with bottles of pills in my hand and a plan to die.  I ended  hanging up on them because they couldn't say anything that had meaning to me.  

I do have a counselor my bishop referred me to and she's been helpful.  Just when I dip and get really down I don't want to talk to her and that's when I start cutting myself.

I never actually called the hotline.  I was too afraid-- afraid that someone would find out about my struggles and then condemn me for it. 

[Lost Boy]

On 9/10/2018 at 2:08 PM, LiterateParakeet said:

I would say that, at least for some,  being overweight is a symptom of deeper emotional or mental issues.  It's no coincidence that I lost 90 lbs, AFTER several years of therapy.  It would be a shame to keep people out of the temple because their pain is more visible.

I have been overweight for most of my adult life.  I wondered if it was a symptom of depression or some other mental illness.  For me I think I am addicted to carbs.  I ended up going on a low carb diet.  I ate a ton of veggies and some meat.  I stayed away from sugar, bread, potatoes, rice, etc.  And when I did that, my desire to eat plummeted.  I stopped snacking.  The only time I got hungry was meal time and I would eat my food and was done.

This was a big turning point in my life.  I dropped a lot of weight and sticking mostly to a low carb diet, I have managed to keep it off.  And I have gone back to eating more carbs from now and then, but I find myself wanting to eat more and more.  No reason to need to eat, but an incredible to eat.

So, can being overweight be a symptom of a mental health issue?  probably.  But I think it really has way more to do with what we eat than anything else.  Changing to a diet comprised mostly of healthy veggies some fruit and some meat has been life changing.

[Lost Boy]

When I was young I would judge people that inflicted self harm or commited suicide.  I was pretty ignorant.

Being older and knowing people that suffer with depression and other mental illnesses, I could never judge again.  Having overwhelming feelings of sadness and worthlessness is absolutely terrible and I feel for those that experience these.  For many there is no simple solution.  This isn't a case of a broken bone you can set in a cast and be healed in a few weeks.  

These are struggles that go on for years and can incapacitate people to the point they won't get out of bed or do anything productive.  They don't believe doing anything will be of any value.  They don't feel the joys of life and want the pain to go away, but don't know how to make it go away.

They need our love far more than they need us debating whether it is a sin or not.  It is our place to love them, not judge them.

[Traveler]

On 9/11/2018 at 12:26 PM, Rob Osborn said:

Im not so sure suicide is a sin. Having had a close friend and family member committ suicide and having to overcome great feelings of dread and depression myself I can say that usually a person who goes through with suicide was to ease otherwise overwhelming and inescapable feelings. If a suicidal person doesnt have extremely great relations with close friends and family it will succumb them and they will search for any way out. Its the most awful dread. I can hardly believe for a second that wanting to escape that terror and find peace is a sin.

I completely support this attitude.  I believe we should view anyone that struggles with "the Path" as a "lost sheep" dear to the heart of the Savior and every repentant Saint.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

18 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

When I was young I would judge people that inflicted self harm or commited suicide.  I was pretty ignorant.

Being older and knowing people that suffer with depression and other mental illnesses, I could never judge again.  Having overwhelming feelings of sadness and worthlessness is absolutely terrible and I feel for those that experience these.  For many there is no simple solution.  This isn't a case of a broken bone you can set in a cast and be healed in a few weeks.  

These are struggles that go on for years and can incapacitate people to the point they won't get out of bed or do anything productive.  They don't believe doing anything will be of any value.  They don't feel the joys of life and want the pain to go away, but don't know how to make it go away.

They need our love far more than they need us debating whether it is a sin or not.  It is our place to love them, not judge them.

I am very open to helping those with mental issues - I am not sure that help looks like - the idea that warm fuzzes is always more helpful than tough love and straight talk seems strange to me.  To be honest I do not think there is a single category for a helpful attitude.  I know I am not much help and am very conflicted - mostly I step away and support anyone that has patients.   Back in the day when there were mental institutions that those with problems were committed - I would visit and try to make connections - but I was told I only saw a small part of the problem.  Sometime I tend to think the experts are only seeing a small part of the problem as well.  I am not sure we have made that much progress with out science or religious enlightenment in our modern era with those with mental issues.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

Brains can be weird things.  There are probably more reasons/causes/explanations for mental illness, as there are categories of mental illness.  Suicidal thoughts/ideation, for example, could be caused by:
- Temporary heavy burdens coupled with a loss of hope or belief that the state is permanent
- Chemical imbalances caused by a bad reaction to medication
- Brain reacting to trauma 
- Boredom, desire for attention, trying to win love in unhealthy ways
- A practical, realistic, reasonable response to some unwinnable situations
- Lies or threats of suicide told by someone to punish or manipulate someone

And probably more.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

12 hours ago, Lost Boy said:

  For me I think I am addicted to carbs.  

Yes,  of course, being overweight is about what we eat.  My point is WHY do people overeat? When it hurts us socially and is unhealthy, and uncomfortable, why do it?   You mention addiction, but what causes addiction?  Some people can drink alcohol and not become addicted, others eat carbs or sugar and have no problems.  

I think addiction has both physical and emotional roots.  Quite often people become addicted to substances because they use them to dull their pain.  When I worked through my pain in therapy, and learned healthy coping skills, THEN I was able to address my sugar addiction.  I could not have stopped sugar before that.  When I stopped eating sugar, I stopped thinking about food 24/7 and ate less and  I lost weight.  Yes, I had to change what I ate, absolutely, but before I could do that, I had to deal with what was driving me to look to sugar for comfort.   

I talked to my therapist about this and she agrees that many people who are obese (we're not talking about that 10-25 lbs that some stress over, I mean 100 lbs and more) are sexual abuse survivors.