Telling the truth....when someone asks

[Sunday21]

I teach as part of my job. A student asked to speak to me privately but only had a few minutes before she had to run off. We found a quiet spot in a hallway. The student is from Germany. I live in Canada. The question: I am dyslexic. Should I tell a prospective employer?  She had no specific employer in mind. Just as a general policy, she wanted to know.

My answer: No. Try to cope. Pay for your own assistive devices eg software that reads to you. Hide the problem. 

Now, I honestly believe this to be the right answer. I have worked in a wide variety of jobs: Government, social services, private sector. 

I strongly believe, that:

1) in the absence of some sort of personal relationship eg you are hiring someone that you have worked with before.

2) in the absence of a special government program eg you have a quota for the disabled. Go hire one.

In the absence of the above, managers hire people to make their life easier. They do not hire someone who is a challenge. 

Even if told to hire a disabled person, managers will look for a disabled person that they have a special relationship with, not someone off the street. 

I honestly feel that I gave the right answer but...the student was horrified. Almost in tears. I get so used to telling people the blunt truth in other parts of my job that...I just said it.

I have a nonlds sister who hates this about me. If someone asks me a question...I tell them. I don’t give unsolicited advice but if you ask me....I will tell you.

i am uncomfortably aware that the textbook answer is: Be honest, Be up front with employer. But if you always do this, you will starve. Fine if your parents have connections but if you are on your own...

Actually I would love to write a paper entitled: Don’t believe the textbook when it says.....Maybe I will write a letter to the newspaper when I am really old. I had the ‘Student Success Centre’ person (SSC) in charge of helping students get jobs, present to my class. I pointed out to the class that my students who present themselves to SSC as rude or depressed tend to have a problem finding jobs. The SSC said, in a round about way, If you are depressed, Let us know. Her response is good in a sense that if the Uni has programs to refer depressed students to....but If you do speak up, the SSC people will not use their connections to find you a job.

Anyway, my poor student is very stressed and sad. She has been working hard with the department that helps disabled students...

In about a week, I could send her an email suggesting that on return to Germany, she try to get into a co-op program in Germany so that she can forge a relationship with a future employer or try to get a minute to talk to her in class...always very difficult. The end of class is like a rugby scrum! 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Sunday21

[zil]

Let's say, for the sake of argument that her tendency was to collect stray mice and feed them to her pet snake.  Would she even be asking the question?  IMO, it's not relevant.  In the age of screen readers, speech-to-text, and spelling/grammar checkers, surely she has ways to manage her dyslexia - I mean, is she a successful student?  Dyslexia wouldn't impact employment any more than it would impact formal schooling.

Hopefully she hasn't chosen a career that is explicitly all reading and writing.

Meanwhile, employers aren't allowed to ask about disabilities, nor hire/fire on the basis of them, so to volunteer the info would actually make their lives more difficult.  I submit that not telling them is doing their HR department a favor.  If she's the best person for the job, the dyslexia can be dealt with.

And no, I don't see this as lying - unless someone asks and you deny it - but employers aren't allowed to ask.  If keeping some information back were lying, then we're all liars all day long, because there's not enough time in the day to reveal to every person you meet every fact of your life up until that point.  (Yes, we could now go all techno and discuss the exceptions, when not speaking constitutes a lie, blah blah blah.  I don't think this situation is one of those times.)

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

My answer: No. Try to cope. Pay for your own assistive devices eg software that reads to you. Hide the problem. 

I am going to be blunt with you Sunday because you're Canadian (hardi har har). 

This is a terrible answer.  And I am not surprised she went into tears.  "Hide the problem" is not just dishonest it is defeating.   You are telling your student that her Dyslexia is limiting!  IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE!  This is not what a teacher should be teaching.  Rather, a teacher should guide a student on ways he can overcome challenges, including physical challenges!

This is the honest plus victory approach to that question (and this applies to anything, not just physical or mental disability, it could apply to something like having no college degree, having a felony in your records, etc.):

A prospective employer sends out a job description/requirement.  If you feel you are qualified for the job even with Dyslexia (or felony, or high school diploma), then submit an application that highlights your qualifications to FULFILL the job requirements.  In this matter, Dyslexia et. al. is not relevant.  During a job interview you might be asked what are your challenges and how have you overcome this challenge.  This is where Dyslexia et. al. becomes relevant.  This is when you tell your employer you have Dyslexia and these are the things you have done to overcome this challenge so that even with Dyslexia you are still the best person he will ever meet to fill the company's need.

The first job I applied for in the US, the job requirement asked for Unix/Solaris experience.  I had none.  I listed what my experiences are in the resume submission and I got an interview.  During the interview, the guy asked me about my experience with Unix.  I said I have none.  But give me 2 weeks on the job and I'll be better than any of your Unix programmers.

Another job I applied for I was 5 months pregnant.  I showed up to the 3-panel interview with a giant stomach, yes, they were trying to hide their shocked faces.  The first thing I said when I walked in was - yes, I am anatess2 and I am 5 months pregnant.  But don't worry, I will be such an asset to your department that you will have more value out of me this fiscal year even being out for 3 months than anybody else that you're going to interview for this job.

Edited September 13, 2018 by anatess2

[zil]

5 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

During a job interview you might be asked what are your challenges and how have you overcome this challenge.  This is where Dyslexia et. al. becomes relevant.  This is when you tell your employer you have Dyslexia and these are the things you have done to overcome this challenge so that even with Dyslexia you are still the best person he will ever meet to fill the company's need. 

Not sure I agree with this part - again, you're not doing them any favors by telling them this - they do not want to know it (or at least, their lawyers do not want them to know it) before the hiring.

But yeah, it's an honest answer to the question.

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, zil said:

Not sure I agree with this part - again, you're not doing them any favors by telling them this - they do not want to know it (or at least, their lawyers do not want them to know it) before the hiring.

But yeah, it's an honest answer to the question.

You are not doing them any favors if you're the type of person who will sue a company for not hiring you.  A company is better off knowing the special needs of their employees.

[Vort]

What zil said. (EDIT: anatess2, too.) We should always be honest, in all situations. But being honest does not mean that we tell everything there is to tell, especially about supposed disabilities. If she's applying for a job that where dyslexia would be a significant handicap, especially if people's lives or well-being are at stake, then in my opinion she needs to disclose that she is dyslexic. Otherwise, I see no reason why that would even come up.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Vort

[Lost Boy]

It really boils down to can she do the job she is seeking or can't she.  If the dyslexia is going to hamper her performance, then that should be disclosed.  If not, it is really none of their business.  I am sure she is very aware of her limitations and good ways to overcome those limitations.  

Be honest in your abilities.  That doesn't mean you should disclose or not disclose the dislexia. 

[anatess2]

Just now, Lost Boy said:

It really boils down to can she do the job she is seeking or can't she.  If the dyslexia is going to hamper her performance, then that should be disclosed.  If not, it is really none of their business.  I am sure she is very aware of her limitations and good ways to overcome those limitations.  

Be honest in your abilities.  That doesn't mean you should disclose or not disclose the dislexia. 

EXACTLY.

Hiding a problem that hinders your performance for a job just so you can be hired is not just dishonest to the employer, it is dishonest to yourself as you set yourself up to fail.

[Just_A_Guy]

Am I the only one who would have said “well, legally I should probably advise you that you can do x; but morally you might want to consider y”?  

Legally—at least in the US—I don’t think they *can* ask about it, and the sound legal/negotiating strategy is to not volunteer the information so long as one sincerely thinks one can do the job.  (After hire, if it becomes apparent that unexpected issues are arising, reasonable accommodations can be dealt with via HR in compliance with the ADA.)

But morally/pragmatically, you aren’t just interviewing for a job; you’re building a network of contacts and relationships that may come in handy later in ways you don’t anticipate at present.  Scrupulous honesty now may come back to reward you in the future.  (I had unsuccessfully interviewed for two previous jobs with the guy who ended up hiring me for my current job.)

Edited September 13, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[Overwatch]

Do not tell them upfront. Tell them after you are hired. When you walk in and are working with your "trainer" at some point say "I am so happy to be here! Oh by the way I have [such and such] disability. If they fire you after that with no proof of wrong doing on your part they can be held liable. Everyone needs to eat and everyone can bring something to the table. Or like Zil said, it really isn't their business if you can do your job.

[Overwatch]

3 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I teach as part of my job. A student asked to speak to me privately but only had a few minutes before she had to run off. We found a quiet spot in a hallway. The student is from Germany. I live in Canada. The question: I am dyslexic. Should I tell a prospective employer?  She had no specific employer in mind. Just as a general policy, she wanted to know.

My answer: No. Try to cope. Pay for your own assistive devices eg software that reads to you. Hide the problem. 

Now, I honestly believe this to be the right answer. I have worked in a wide variety of jobs: Government, social services, private sector. 

I strongly believe, that:

1) in the absence of some sort of personal relationship eg you are hiring someone that you have worked with before.

2) in the absence of a special government program eg you have a quota for the disabled. Go hire one.

In the absence of the above, managers hire people to make their life easier. They do not hire someone who is a challenge. 

Even if told to hire a disabled person, managers will look for a disabled person that they have a special relationship with, not someone off the street. 

I honestly feel that I gave the right answer but...the student was horrified. Almost in tears. I get so used to telling people the blunt truth in other parts of my job that...I just said it.

I have a nonlds sister who hates this about me. If someone asks me a question...I tell them. I don’t give unsolicited advice but if you ask me....I will tell you.

i am uncomfortably aware that the textbook answer is: Be honest, Be up front with employer. But if you always do this, you will starve. Fine if your parents have connections but if you are on your own...

Actually I would love to write a paper entitled: Don’t believe the textbook when it says.....Maybe I will write a letter to the newspaper when I am really old. I had the ‘Student Success Centre’ person (SSC) in charge of helping students get jobs, present to my class. I pointed out to the class that my students who present themselves to SSC as rude or depressed tend to have a problem finding jobs. The SSC said, in a round about way, If you are depressed, Let us know. Her response is good in a sense that if the Uni has programs to refer depressed students to....but If you do speak up, the SSC people will not use their connections to find you a job.

Anyway, my poor student is very stressed and sad. She has been working hard with the department that helps disabled students...

In about a week, I could send her an email suggesting that on return to Germany, she try to get into a co-op program in Germany so that she can forge a relationship with a future employer or try to get a minute to talk to her in class...always very difficult. The end of class is like a rugby scrum! 

 

 

I like your upfront opinion honesty, if you can take it in return I think you are golden. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Overwatch

[unixknight]

I agree with @Sunday21.

Thing is, I  do believe generally that openness is ideal, but here's the thing...  unless it's relevant to the job, then there's no reason to give a prospective employer a reason not to hire you.  Yes, discrimination is illegal but good luck proving they discriminated.

Now, if it's relevant in some way then yes, she should disclose it because a hiring manager is trusting that you'll be upfront about factors that impact your ability to perform your duties.

There are lots of things one would be ill advised to bring up in an interview because they could poison the well before you're hired.  Got lots of kids?  Don't volunteer that.  People with kids tend to miss a lot more time at work than those who don't.  Is your car 20 years old?  Don't tell them and give them a reason to wonder whether you can reliably make it in.  Are you an enthusiastic political activist?  Hush, or you may give the impression that you're likely to cause an office ruckus if light water cooler conversation turns political.   

It would be nice if openness were always safe, but it isn't.

Edited September 13, 2018 by unixknight

[zil]

7 minutes ago, unixknight said:

unless it's relevant to the job

This seems to be the part we can all agree on.

[Sunday21]

Thank you everyone! A neighbor of mine invited me into her house after seeing me on the street ( I need to be more Safety conscious. If I lived in Detroit, I would be dead by now) .I really feel that God intervened here.  I didn’t know her and she did not know me.

It turned out that she was a cancer survivor and desperately needed a job. I teach about job interviews. Anyhoo..we talked about not disclosing the cancer and how to paper over the empty spots on the resume. 

These issues of what you should/should not tell come up very frequently especially with young people

[Jane_Doe]

My $0.02 --

In the USA, legally you are not required to say anything about any disabilities, and possible employers are forbidden from asking about them.  So that's legality.  Now moving on past that bare-bones standard--

You need to be able to do the job you're applying for.  Some disabilities keep some people from doing certain jobs (like you can't hike around the woods in a wheel chair).  

If your disability doesn't affect your ability to do the job whatsoever (say for example a color-blind person is applying to be a accountant), then there's no need to mention it.

Some disabilities can be overcome with a simple accommodation -- like when I cashiered, one of the cashiers had a bad leg so he used a stool while the rest of us stood.   I would talk with a future employer about this during the negation-phase of getting hired.  Not during the initial applying and interviewing steps, but definitely once you've caught their interest.  The point is to see their attitude about accommodating you -- are they cool and naturally helpful?  Or is getting an accommodation going to be like pulling teeth?  Don't sign on with a place that is going to fight you the entire way.