Baby, it's cold outside

[NeuroTypical]

Can't swing a cat wearing a Trump hat these days, without hitting increasing numbers of people ticked off about this song.  See, for example, https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/music/2018/11/30/baby-its-cold-outside-cut-cleveland-radio-station-after-metoo/2160122002/.

The kicker: To put it bluntly, the song is about a woman who is looking for ways to blame her desire to commit adultery on alcohol rather than her own choices. The song was never about male/female power disparity or white rapist privilege mentality or any such dumb thing. It's a song about a woman navigating the social climate of the 1940's in order to get some naughty lovin' in the culturally acceptable way of playing hard to get and eventually letting the alcohol and urging persuade her to drop her opposition.

Yeah, it's not the 1940's any more. But the song is a perfect example of how dudes in the '40's respected boundaries and sought consent. With the exception of the single line "no means no", if she ever went from talking about how she should leave, to actually saying she is leaving, the song would have ended with no lovin', consensual or otherwise.    Everyone understood this, until the 21st century, as clueless and apathetic social justice warriors gripe and complain.  Too clueless to understand the context and social background, and too apathetic to look it up before jumping to their frankenstien's-monster-seeing-fire-esque reaction of "male BAAAAAAD"!

This parody modernizes his lyrics into the modern consent vernacular while hers remain unchanged.  IMO, this parody does well, and loses none of the soul of the original song.  

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

I've disliked this song since I got old enough to understand what it was actually talking about. I suppose the fact that I roll my eyes at radio stations that don't want to play it any more shows just how much I despise SJWs.

[Guest MormonGator]

To me the controversy shows how the pendulum has swung. When I was growing up I remember my theology teacher in 7th grade telling me not to listen to heavy metal because of the lyrics. As you can see, she was vastly influential in my life. Now, instead of fussy religious people like her and @Vort (kidding! kidding!)telling us what we can and can't listen to-it's the social justice warriors telling you what you can and can't listen to. 

Edited December 11, 2018 by MormonGator

[mikbone]

When my daughter (comes home from Temple Square SLC mission in one week) at age 17 sang this song for me I was quite torn.

Talented performer and cute but...

 

 

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

fussy religious people like her and @Vort

Funny how perspectives change. When I was much younger, I tended to be one of those who would make disclaimers such as "I'm no prude". Along about the time I got home from my mission, I started seeing how people would use and twist words to mock others and draw their listeners to conclusions. It was pure manipulation, and it made me mad. So for a while, I went to the opposite pole, proclaiming things like "I'm a prude!" I don't do that any more, preferring to leave people enough rope to hang themselves—which they do with stunning predictability.

So MG's joking description is someone else's real judgment, and I leave it to them.

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, mikbone said:

When my daughter (comes home from Temple Square SLC mission in one week) at age 17 sang this song for me I was quite torn.

Talented performer and cute but...

I remember an old Hee Haw running gag: "Ah'm jist a gal who cain't say nnnnnn......nnnn.....NNNNNN....."

[anatess2]

[NeuroTypical]

28 minutes ago, Vort said:

I remember an old Hee Haw running gag: "Ah'm jist a gal who cain't say nnnnnn......nnnn.....NNNNNN....."

Speaking of Hee Haw:

Charlie Fergeson, KORN news reporter:  "We turn now to the KORN weather lady.  Tell us weather lady, is it raining?"
Buxom Weather Lady: "Not enough to come in out of!"
Charlie: "Did you just end a sentence with three prepositions??!?"
BWL: "Gee, I wish I could end my Saturday nights that way!"

[JohnsonJones]

@NeuroTypical

That's not the original song in the video you posted.  I can't say I'm a fan of the song one way or the other...but...

Context is King.  I think that song was original composed by a HUSBAND AND WIFE.  It was sung as a song BETWEEN A MARRIED COUPLE.  From what I understood, what you are hearing in the song is the debate between a wife trying to go to her parents and a husband keeping her there....at least as a joke.  The real joke is that they composed it as a funny way to tell their guests that the party was over and it was time for the guests to leave.

Several years later he sold the song and it was sung in Neptune's Daughter where it won an award.  It is somewhat of a different aspect and take, and thus the context is different.  In the way it is presented in the song, as it is not the original, it could be interpreted several ways, though I do not think that it implies the specific type of harassment of the sort people are complaining about today.  The Red Skeleton clip that I'll post is rather unique in it's presentation compared to what some are talking about regarding the song today.

As far as the original, the HUSBAND was the one who sold the rights.  The WIFE supposedly had NOT agreed for the song to be sold and was particularly angry at this.

The version sung in Neptune's Daughter.

And yes, for you Star Trek fans, that appears to be Kahn in the first portion of the song. 

Edit: And no, I've never seen the movie myself.  The context Neurotypical discusses may have been an element of that movie (if not in the original song), but that seems like it may have been a tad risqué for the late 1940s cinema.  (though there are some notably mature films out there that did get filmed and shown, Gone with the Wind was particularly risqué at points and it was a decade prior).

Edited December 11, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

The Red Skeleton clip

I didn't know Hydra was a patron of the arts.

[JohnsonJones]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

I didn't know Hydra was a patron of the arts.

I have to admit, I don't know the reference you are mentioning.  ???

Red Skeleton was a comedian and actor, I don't think he was ever cast as a Hydra or the Hydra or something like that.

Story?

[Vort]

Just now, JohnsonJones said:

I have to admit, I don't know the reference you are mentioning.  ???

Red Skeleton was a comedian and actor, I don't think he was ever cast as a Hydra or the Hydra or something like that.

Story?

I believe you are referring to the comedian and actor Red Skelton. "Red Skeleton" sounds like Red Skull, a Marvel comics bad guy.

[Maureen]

You gotta love Red Skelton. 😊

M.

[NeuroTypical]

14 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

@NeuroTypical

That's not the original song in the video you posted.  I can't say I'm a fan of the song one way or the other...but...Context is King.  I think that song was original composed by a HUSBAND AND WIFE.  It was sung as a song BETWEEN A MARRIED COUPLE. 

From what I understood, what you are hearing in the song is the debate between a wife trying to go to her parents and a husband keeping her there....at least as a joke.

I'm going to have to ask for a source for this claim.  From what I understand, yeah, a hubby wrote it and hubby/wife sang it, but that's not the full story.  The full story is in the '40's, hollywood celebs were expected to perform at the parties to which they were invited, and Loesser/Garland wrote and performed this song at those parties.  In other words, they were doing what Hollywood celebs did - performing a bit.  That they were married at the time had no impact at all.  

I'm hardly well-versed in the romantic hook-up practices of post-WWII America, but I recognize a song about a dude pursuing an interested woman who is playing hard to get when I see one.    And I'm old enough to remember that we didn't start talking about the notion that a guy should romantically pursue his wife, until like 1992.

And the guy's name is Skelton.  Not Skeleton.

Skelton: 

 

Skeleton:

Edited December 11, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[JohnsonJones]

2 minutes ago, Vort said:

I believe you are referring to the comedian and actor Red Skelton. "Red Skeleton" sounds like Red Skull, a Marvel comics bad guy.

I understand.  I always called him Red Skeleton.  I was a young kid when a Lot of his stuff was coming out, and for as a young kid it always sounded like Red Skeleton to me.  Thus, even today you'll hear me refer to him as such.

It's probably a lot like how kids talked about life savers in Star Wars (the Lightsabers) when they were younger.

[JohnsonJones]

4 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm going to have to ask for a source for this claim.  From what I understand, yeah, a hubby wrote it and hubby/wife sang it, but that's not the full story.  The full story is in the '40's, hollywood celebs were expected to perform at the parties to which they were invited, and Loesser/Garland wrote and performed this song at those parties.  In other words, they were doing what Hollywood celebs did - performing a bit.  That they were married at the time had no impact at all.  

I'm hardly well-versed in the romantic hook-up practices of post-WWII America, but I recognize a song about a dude pursuing an interested woman who is playing hard to get when I see one.    And I'm old enough to remember that we didn't start talking about the notion that a guy should romantically pursue his wife, until like 1992.

And the guy's name is Skelton.  Not Skeleton.

Skelton: 

 

Skeleton:

No source, just my recollection of what I've heard.  You could probably look up the story, it's probably out there somewhere.  However, the party was one they threw, thus they wanted to have a funny way to get the guests out.

My supposition (it was written prior to me being born) is that the wife was pretending that she was going off and out from the party.  It would have been rude for houseguests to stay after the host or hostess had or wanted to leave, thus a funny joke to get them to go.  It was a funny way they composed together to get their guests to leave from their parties.

It obviously caught on and someone thought it would be a great fit for a movie.  Thus the movie that was made (and I understand came out shortly after I came to the world) with the song in it.

Edited December 11, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[NeuroTypical]

Just now, JohnsonJones said:

No source, just my recollection of what I've heard.  You could probably look up the story, it's probably out there somewhere. 

Ok.  Looked it up.  It doesn't jive with your recollection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby%2C_It's_Cold_Outside

[JohnsonJones]

Okay, so I looked it up for you, doesn't look like it differentiates from the story I've heard all that much.

wikipedia cold

No, it's not where I got my information originally so not my source, but it seems to back up what I had heard.

[JohnsonJones]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Ok.  Looked it up.  It doesn't jive with your recollection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby%2C_It's_Cold_Outside

????

Quote

During the 1940s, when Hollywood celebrities attended parties, they were expected to perform. In 1944, Loesser wrote "Baby, It's Cold Outside" to sing with his wife, Lynn Garland, at their housewarming party in New York City at the Navarro Hotel. They sang the song to indicate to guests that it was time to leave.^{[citation needed]}

Quote

Garland has written that after the first performance, "We became instant parlor room stars. We got invited to all the best parties for years on the basis of 'Baby.' It was our ticket to caviar and truffles. Parties were built around our being the closing act."^{[This quote needs a citation]} In 1948, after years of performing the song, Loesser sold it to MGM for the 1949 romantic comedy Neptune's Daughter. Garland was furious: "I felt as betrayed as if I'd caught him in bed with another woman."^[1]

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[NeuroTypical]

24 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

From what I understood, what you are hearing in the song is the debate between a wife trying to go to her parents and a husband keeping her there....at least as a joke. 

???

Quote

..

(That's what the Wiki article says about this claim.   )

Edited December 11, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

I think you two should fight it out. MMA rules apply. Tap, nap, or snap, dudes!

[NeuroTypical]

Johson Jones, I challenge you to a duel!  Showtunes at 20 paces!  

[JohnsonJones]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

???

They created the song as a way to get their guests to leave, just as I told you.  In the song the wife says she has to go. 

It used to be, if your host or hostess has to go, then it was RUDE for you to stay. 

So, she is giving reasons she has to go while the party guests are there and he is giving her reasons to stay.  It's a sly way to tell the guests, it's time to go and the party has ended.

The film obviously may have a different context (never saw the film, or if I did I was too young to remember seeing it).

Edited December 11, 2018 by JohnsonJones

[NeuroTypical]

Also, this.  Gaga actually uses physical force to restrain the guy.

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[anatess2]

There goes the career of Gordon-Levitt... just counting the days until he gets Metoo'd.