More temple changes

[CrimsonKairos]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

If you do neither, then it would appear that you either intentionally lied, or else that you were shown to be incorrect and were too prideful to admit it.

Or I’m uninterested in playing the “you-make-a-demand-and-I-copy-and-paste-for-you” game. Sorry you can’t see it in the article.

[CrimsonKairos]

11 minutes ago, Vort said:

This would be nice to believe. I would happily seize upon it if I knew of evidence of it.

Now you know of it:

hubermanlab.com

”Change Your Brain, Change Your Life” (book)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5947107/

Those are for starters…

[Vort]

.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Vort

[Vort]

12 minutes ago, CrimsonKairos said:

Now you know of it:

hubermanlab.com

”Change Your Brain, Change Your Life” (book)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5947107/

Those are for starters…

What exactly do you think the cited paper demonstrates?

[CrimsonKairos]

Just what it says. I figured you’d read it.

[CrimsonKairos]

@Vort no offense brother but it’s devilish hard to meaningfully interact with you for some reason so I’m going to opt out for awhile. Try not to take it personally, my time is too precious to me. Be well.

[mikbone]

1 hour ago, CrimsonKairos said:

Just what it says. I figured you’d read it.

I read it.  Well I skipped most of the jargon.  I’m a MD BTW.

Here is a similarly well documented script.

 

Translation - depression / mental illness may be caused by inflammation and vascular damage, its complex.  We don’t propose any practical application.

Edited February 14, 2023 by mikbone

[Vort]

20 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I read it.  Well I skipped most of the jargon.  I’m a MD BTW.

I am not an MD, but I had the same general reaction. CK has apparently decided not to answer my questions. Maybe you will have better luck getting a response.

[zil2]

On 2/9/2023 at 6:58 PM, CrimsonKairos said:

I really have a hard time with the Church m.o. seeming to be “keep it quiet” instead of letting parents press charges and get some counseling for the abuse victim who I’m sure continued to see his abuser at church…

Just for fun, I read this SL Tribune article you linked.  That article linked to this article about a 1993 case involving the same man.  The second article, and the KUTV.com article you linked include this statement (or one virtually identical), a ways under the video in the KUTV article:

Quote

After the molestation, David said his parents asked a mutual friend, who was a Latter-day Saint bishop, what to do. He said they were encouraged to let the church handle it.

It has taken me more time to figure out how to politely call you and @Vort jerks than to find, copy, paste, and properly cite the article(s).  Of course, perhaps you use a phone for your interwebbing and are hindered by the absence of a nice big screen and keyboard...  The articles also say this:

Quote

"In the report, Detective Steve Jentzsch of the Salt Lake County Sheriff’s Office reported contacting David's father who stated he did not 'want to talk about what happened' and that he was 'supportive of Mr. Vanwagenen in working out this problem,' McKnight writes. "Jentzsch concluded that “the victim refused to pursue [the] complaint.” The case was subsequently closed and Van Wagenen was never charged.

IMO, your conclusion (the bit I quoted at the start of my reply) assumes facts not in evidence.  Perhaps @Just_A_Guy can come and bang a gavel, or at least a ban hammer.  I'm going to go now to the fountain pen forums and renew my faith in Jesus Christ, because it doesn't seem likely to happen here.

[person0]

37 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Here is a similarly well documented script.

Have you experienced the new hyper encabulator?  It far surpasses that older model:

 

[mikbone]

3 minutes ago, person0 said:

Have you experienced the new hyper encabulator?  It far surpasses that older model:

Oh, bless you.  I was totally unaware of this new discovery.  

Bookmarked!

[CrimsonKairos]

I do use a phone for this site, well called. Copying and pasting is rather burdensome.

So to sum up for you, parents of an abuse victim were counseled by a bishop to “let the church handle it,” and the abuser said despite confessing to cops he wasn’t prosecuted and assumed it was because the parents didn’t press charges.

The abuser’s stake president told the abuser to confess to cops. So there’s that at least. I know of other anecdata not in the news that fueled my opinions on this issue but I know better than to bring that up, for heaven’s sake, we can’t even agree on plain English news articles!

So why I’d be banned from a community I’ve belonged to since 2006 is beyond me, what, for not copying and pasting when someone demanded me to?

And that article on neuro-inflammation is one of three resources I posted, do you seriously think that’s all the evidence there is? That’s why I said, “for starters,” as in, any intellectually curious person can go look through a rather large field of study for themselves.

As someone who’s struggled with brain illness and MDD and had SPECT brain scans verifying the inflammation and found relief treating inflammation, I posted the info in the hopes it would help someone else. Thanks for mocking my attempt at helpfulness and ignoring critical jargon in the article. Geez.

@pam do you think I’m an anti-mormon?

Edited February 14, 2023 by CrimsonKairos

[CrimsonKairos]

2 hours ago, mikbone said:

 

Translation - depression / mental illness may be caused by inflammation and vascular damage, its complex.  We don’t propose any practical application.

Is this more practical for you?

https://news.emory.edu/stories/2023/01/som_bhc_inflammation_felger/story.html

[mikbone]

8 minutes ago, CrimsonKairos said:

Is this more practical for you?

https://news.emory.edu/stories/2023/01/som_bhc_inflammation_felger/story.html

Nope.  That is not a study.  You linked a review of a study.  

And not a very good study.  CRP is a nondescript inflammatory test.  Not specific to the brain.  Levodopa has been around for over 100 years.

I have read many scientific articles.  Most are garbage.  Relatively few are practical.  

The human brain is extremely complex.  If I could any disease it wouldn’t be cancer.

Id cure diabetes first. Then mental illness.

When you see statements like, “First, they suggest depressed patients with high inflammation may specifically respond to drugs that increase dopamine.”  You can rest assured that the authors are grasping at straws.

Words like suggest and may have no place in a scientific document (other than the discussion). 

Hopefully in the near future we will better understand mental illness and can develop treatments that can restore the brain to a normal status.

We are not there yet.  We are poorly treating a multitude of symptoms.  

And the news articles you have linked have not given me any hope of a silver bullet.

[CrimsonKairos]

14 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Nope.  That is not a study.  You linked a review of a study.  

And not a very good study.  CRP is a nondescript inflammatory test.  Not specific to the brain.  Levodopa has been around for over 100 years.

I have read many scientific articles.  Most are garbage.  Relatively few are practical.  

The human brain is extremely complex.  If I could any disease it wouldn’t be cancer.

Id cure diabetes first. Then mental illness.

When you see statements like, “First, they suggest depressed patients with high inflammation may specifically respond to drugs that increase dopamine.”  You can rest assured that the authors are grasping at straws.

Words like suggest and may have no place in a scientific document (other than the discussion). 

Hopefully in the near future we will better understand mental illness and can develop treatments that can restore the brain to a normal status.

We are not there yet.  We are poorly treating a multitude of symptoms.  

And the news articles you have linked have not given me any hope of a silver bullet.

I’ve experienced relief treating neuro-inflammation, so I’ll have to disagree. Of course there’s no silver bullet, but it’s one thing to say “people cause their own mental illness through bad habits,” and it’s another to say “brain inflammation will cause depressive symptoms even with all the best habits in the world in place.”

The medical studies are pointing out the latter (forget the first link I posted, I’ve been looking into this for years, that’s just the first one I googled since I’m not at my computer, like I said, there is a worldwide body of evidence surrounding MDD and neuro-inflammation’s effect on dopamine release/neurogenesis).

Edited February 14, 2023 by CrimsonKairos

[mikbone]

2 minutes ago, CrimsonKairos said:

I’ve experienced relief treating inflammation, so I’ll have to disagree. Of course there’s no silver bullet, but it’s one thing to say “people cause their own mental illness through bad habits,” and it’s another to say “brain inflammation will cause depressive symptoms even with all the best habits in the world in place.”

I’m an orthopaedic surgeon and an athlete.  I and my patients have benefited greatly from anti-inflammatory medications.  I particularly like Ibuprofen.  It has an excellent track record, has a low side effect profile and is dirt cheap.

The following is a good practical study

https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/ARI_do-physical-measures-such-hand-washing-or-wearing-masks-stop-or-slow-down-spread-respiratory-viruses

 

[CrimsonKairos]

Are you mocking me?

[Just_A_Guy]

13 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Two things- 

While I generally agree with both of you, we tend to focus on the negative when it comes to antidepressants. We ignore the success stories and focus on the times it didn’t work. 
 

I absolutely agree that someone can’t just gobble Prozac from their couch, never do anything and expect their mental health to magically improve. 
 

Is it the same with therapy? Do previous generations hate and fear it because they think it’s a crutch for laziness? 

I suspect older generations feared therapy for much the same reason newer generations look askance at clerical counseling:

You’re giving a third party tremendously intimate access to a very personal and vulnerable part of you; and it’s not altogether certain whether the person so privileged is really deserving of the sort of trust they are being given.

[mikbone]

1 minute ago, CrimsonKairos said:

Are you mocking me?

Nope.

Not at all.  I don’t pretend to be a mental health expert.  In fact, I got the worst grades in med school during my psych rotation.

Mental illness is a difficulty that I deal with on a routine basis as I take hospital call.  Curing schizophrenia would make my life considerably easier.

I do consider myself a scientist though and understand the mumbo jumbo and statistics associated with ‘scientific articles’

 

[CrimsonKairos]

5 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

You’re giving a third party tremendously intimate access to a very personal and vulnerable part of you; and it’s not altogether certain whether the person so privileged is really deserving of the sort of trust they are being given.

Fair enough, I’m done in this thread. Sorry for any confusion or anything else I caused.

[Just_A_Guy]

3 minutes ago, CrimsonKairos said:

Fair enough, I’m done in this thread. Sorry for any confusion or anything else I caused.

I’m not trying to be a snot, and I’m sorry if that’s how I came across.  FWIW I was responding to @LDSGator, not you.  🙂

[CrimsonKairos]

1 minute ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m not trying to be a snot, and I’m sorry if that’s how I came across.  FWIW I was responding to @LDSGator, not you.  🙂

No I didn’t think you were being a snot or talking to me, but truth is truth and it applied to me too. Thanks.

[mikbone]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36214590/

The above is one of my favorite recent studies.

Unfortunately, you have to pay for the entire article.  So I cant link the entire study.  It is worth the read though.

The data shows that you have to perform 455 scopes to catch one cancer early.  And despite catching the early cases it had no effect on patient mortality.

The study had 84K participants BTW.

The authors then go on a 2 page explanation as to why the study might be flawed, and why diagnostic scopes should still be performed…

[The Folk Prophet]

8 hours ago, mikbone said:

Hopefully in the near future we will better understand mental illness and can develop treatments that can restore the brain to a normal status.

I doubt we will reach this state. The reason being: I think there's something metaphysical (a.k.a. spiritual) about how the brain works that physical science can't uncover. Just my view. I'm not saying there isn't a lot of physically related things that cannot be improved. But a completely physical approach to a "normal status" while not addressing the spiritual? I don't think that will work out.

[The Folk Prophet]

8 hours ago, mikbone said:

The authors then go on a 2 page explanation as to why the study might be flawed, and why diagnostic scopes should still be performed…

Ah man. I was hoping I'd found the magic source that allowed me to justify never getting a colonoscopy!