Does Anyone Else Ever Feel Perplexed Trying to Comprehend Jesus Christ's Role and the Atonement?

[clbent04]

I can't imagine anyone not feeling perplexed at least to some degree when thinking about how Jesus Christ's role and the Atonement relate to all things physical and spiritual, how He is at the center connecting us back to God, how the concept of sin and spiritual laws can actually be put into effect by God, and trying to make sense of the literal power source of how any of it can be effectuated.

Can anyone else out there relate to feeling perplexed in this regard?

I want to develop my relationship with my Savior, and these perplexing thoughts sometimes act as a hindrance to that desire.

A friend recently told me something I like. She said pray for faith, not for clarity. She defines faith as accepting God's will and clarity as wanting answers. I am more content when I focus on faith and probably just need to hit the brakes on wanting clarity.

I do want some clarity to at least help define what it is I believe in, and God has given me a few sweet moments of clarity. I'm grateful for those moments as they've helped keep me centered. Perhaps me going through this process is God's way of teaching me to have patience.

I'm left to admit 1.) I know very little, and 2.) accepting God's will means being content with where I am.

[LDSGator]

42 minutes ago, clbent04 said:

Can anyone else out there relate to feeling perplexed in this regard?

Absolutely my friend. There are many things regarding Christianity that don’t make sense to me. I do my best to keep trying to have faith even when it’s confusing or hard. 

[Backroads]

Certainly perplexed, but also rather fascinated by how it all works.

[scottyg]

Can you imagine trying to explain what electricity is and how energy is harnessed to someone living in 3000 B.C.? Specific devices like a smartphone, television, airplane, or rocket would be completely out of the question. Even if you could somehow explain the processes at their level of understanding, there is no way they would actually believe you...those ideas would be so outlandish for the time thatd you would be dismissed as a complete nutcase.

Similarly, I do not think we in our current mortal state can actually understand the entire scope of the Atonement. Faith is truly what is needed in this place and time. As we gain more, clarity on certain topics eventually follows - once God feels we are ready.

[mikbone]

Perplexed no.

[zil2]

For me, whether I feel this depends on details I don't know (that is, I'm not sure what you mean, so I can't be sure whether I'm feeling the same thing).  So my answer may differ from those already given...

1. The Atonement is something Christ experienced / did.  It is not a separate entity to which Christ relates in some way - it is what he went through.  By virtue of carrying out the Atonement, Christ gains the right, authority, power to be our mediator with the Father and our judge in the resurrection.  It also gives him the right to suspend judgement (as he chooses), extend mercy, forgive, heal, etc.  Obviously, the fact that he is the Son of God and also God gives him those same rights and abilities, but the Atonement was required to extend all that to us.

2. We have no clue how that works.  Prophets - people I believe interacted face-to-face with Christ - say that we cannot understand it.  While one can pursue increasing understanding, one should not be discouraged or let their faith be shaken by the fact that they don't understand how the Atonement works.

3. The scriptures (when viewed in total and through the lens of the restored gospel) tell us an awful lot about God's power, his laws, our relationship to him, why we are here, and why we need a Savior.  I strongly recommend you turn to the topical guide, starting with "Jesus Christ, Atonement through" and study every link - read not just to see what it says, but what you personally learn, what the Spirit teaches you, how you can act in faith, etc.  Don't worry about how long it takes - if it takes a lifetime, so be it.  From there, study the "See also" topics.  You might also like the "Topics and Questions" entry for "Atonement of Jesus Christ" - there are actually two, but I only linked the first as the second can be found from there.

The scriptures are the words of Christ - studying them, with him in mind (asking "What does this teach me about Christ?") can be enlightening and strengthen your faith in and relationship with him.  Acting on what you learn is required.  Repentance and prayer guided by the Spirit (as in, "What should I pray for?" and waiting for the Spirit to guide your prayer) should also help.

If the Spirit tells you to study something else - study something else.

I think your friend gave you good advice, and contentment is good - as long as you aren't content with your sins.  Don't give up trying to learn.  Don't give up on trying to improve and increase in spiritual strength.  Be content with God's will and blessings, not content with your own weakness.

You're not alone in knowing very little - none of us knows a fraction's fraction of what's out there to know.  And yes, God may be trying to teach you and even try you by making you work harder to gain understanding.  We all have our trials, and I have become convinced that the primary thing we are to learn through them is to choose God first, no matter what.  And that's a lot harder than it sounds, so don't give up.

[zil2]

8 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Perplexed no.

This is an excellent answer, @clbent04.  Hymns are powerful teachers. I would recommend that you do some hymn-study similar to what I described here in the second comment of this thread (the link should take you to that comment):

...in essence, start with prayer.  Then listen to the hymn (many can be found on YouTube by the Tabernacle Choir).  At least read the associated scriptures, but better to summarize them and write what they teach you (not what they say, what the Spirit teaches you as you read them).  Then write out each verse of the hymn (the chorus only once), and for each, write your spiritual impressions.  Do this for all the sacrament hymns.  You might be surprised how much you learn - or at least how much your faith is strengthened.

[Traveler]

On 7/21/2023 at 6:51 AM, clbent04 said:

I can't imagine anyone not feeling perplexed at least to some degree when thinking about how Jesus Christ's role and the Atonement relate to all things physical and spiritual, how He is at the center connecting us back to God, how the concept of sin and spiritual laws can actually be put into effect by God, and trying to make sense of the literal power source of how any of it can be effectuated.

Can anyone else out there relate to feeling perplexed in this regard?

I want to develop my relationship with my Savior, and these perplexing thoughts sometimes act as a hindrance to that desire.

A friend recently told me something I like. She said pray for faith, not for clarity. She defines faith as accepting God's will and clarity as wanting answers. I am more content when I focus on faith and probably just need to hit the brakes on wanting clarity.

I do want some clarity to at least help define what it is I believe in, and God has given me a few sweet moments of clarity. I'm grateful for those moments as they've helped keep me centered. Perhaps me going through this process is God's way of teaching me to have patience.

I'm left to admit 1.) I know very little, and 2.) accepting God's will means being content with where I am.

Speaking of the “Atonement” as perplexing or even complex speaks to limits in our understanding.  I would address your concerns with some thoughts.  I will begin with the three laws from Sir Arthur C. Clark:

1 When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right.  When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.  (Note – his definition of elderly was, over 30)

2 The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3 Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

 

Next let us discover where the term “Atonement” came from.  When Tyndale translated the first English version of the Bible, he ran into some rather difficult translation problems.  There were terms (words) in the ancient Biblical text that had no English translation or concept.  So, he made up some new words for his translation.  The word “Atonement” was one of those terms.  His new terms were one of the primary reasons he was burned at the stake for blasphemy.   I have pondered that as inspired as this term was – it is inadequate in representing the vast reaches of the atonement.

Having pondered and studied Christ and the mission of the Messiah, I have come to the conclusion that following the last supper to the resurrection of Christ does not even begin to teach us of the atonement of Christ.  To understand the atonement, I believe that we must begin with the addressing of the “only begotten Son of the Father” in the pre-existence.  Jehovah was not just an individual – I believe it was a special calling from “the beginning”.   That calling was of singular most importance when the Great Plan of Salvation (Plan of Happiness) was begun.  I believe that the atonement began with the, “In the beginning” spoken of in Genesis – and that the atonement will not end or be completed until the conclusion of the resurrection and what is called, “The Final Judgement”.

In short, everything we study in recorded revelation that comes from G-d testifies of the Messiah and the Atonement.  Our gift of “Agency” come through the Christ, and I speculate that because agency comes through Him that he shares in the responsibility of the consequences that result from choices that are not pure light and truth.  Because the Messiah granted our agency, He is the only possibility able to “redeem” or pay for our sins and transgressions.  I believe there is more to this than just physical suffering and anguish and includes being spiritually striped of divine position and title – sacrificing all His personal achievements.  He does this only for our benefit and redemption.

It seems to me that in this thread and post we will only highlight a few “threads” in the great tapestry of what is called “The Atonement”.   I believe that there are two other elements that must be completed.  One comes from G-d our Father in Heaven – through who the Messiah is called, sustained and supported in His call – that G-d the Father will raise up the Christ with power to resurrect all mankind.  The second comes from all the soles of mankind that will complete every covenant made in the pre-existence and bend every knee and bow every head and declare that Jesus is the Christ before the “Atonement” is completed.

And for the record – my understanding of the Atonement is very little and there is much for me to learn to get beyond where currently, I am.

 

The Traveler

Edited July 22, 2023 by Traveler

[askandanswer]

It is my firm belief that not enough has been revealed about the atonement for us to be able to properly understand it. There are a great many unanswered questions, and in the present state of knowledge, i think they are pretty much unanswerable if you are looking for a reliable and truthful answer. The first principle of the gospel is faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, not knowledge of the atonement. I believe the limitations on the amount of knowledge God has made available about the atonement is a deliberate decision by Him, and that one of the reasons for that decision, for that limitation, is so that we are required to develop faith. God has chosen to reveal little on this topic, and there is a reason for that decision and the reason might be linked to the necessity of developing faith in Christ. You and I will be saved more by our faith than our knowledge.

I made up my mind decades ago that when reason conflicted with my faith i would rely on faith every time. Logic, reason and knowledge unconfirmed by the Spirit are very poor and unreliable guides, in part because they change so frequently. Occasionally I do come across the appearance of a conflict between faith and reason, and after thinking about it for a while, I usually put it in the too hard basket, to be resolved at a later time, either on earth or in eternity. 

 

[laronius]

A related thought I have often had when studying deeper doctrine is how does the doctrine of the impossibility of being saved in ignorance apply. Does ignorance include the how as well as the what? I think it does. If that is the case then it tells me that the process of being saved extends far beyond this existence because there is so much of the how that we just don't or can't comprehend in our fallen state. And yet there are many things we can and are expected to comprehend here in this life. So whenever we run into a wall to further understanding of one doctrine it might just be that we are expected to build our foundation of knowledge in other areas first.

[Carborendum]

On 7/21/2023 at 7:51 AM, clbent04 said:

Can anyone else out there relate to feeling perplexed in this regard?

I used to all the time.  But not anymore.

[Traveler]

While reading, I would respond the two previous posts of @askandanswer  and @laronius .  I am convinced (both through personal study and manifestations of the spirit) that there is never a conflict between the light and truth of Christ and rightful logic and reason.  That all revelations; in scripture, via prophets and through personal enlightenment are given and understood through the spirit with logic and reason.   And that through faith in Jesus Christ and by the power of G-d all things are possible that are right and true.  That all uncleanliness, doubts, misunderstandings and incomplete truths are not from the mind, will and intent of G-d but are cast upon us from powers contrary to G-d that is pure light and truth and the only source of pure light and truth.

That through the Messiah all that is impure or incomplete can be forgiven and overcome.  It is also my experience that this is not a singular event but a process that requires a lifetime of a pre-existence, and a mortal and spirit world experience necessary to prepare for a resurrection through the “Atonement”.  Jesus testified that he is the only keeper of the path and way of forgiveness and the only path through the impure and incomplete to the pure white fruit of the Tree of Life prophesied of in Genesis and the Book of Mormon.

If we run into a “wall” or a conflict – is it of our own doing and not because of any revelation, action or desire of G-d or his Messiah which are one and to understand and comprehend we will of necessity, also become one like unto them and as they are one.

 

The Traveler