Preparation in 2023

[zil2]

I'm wondering if anyone is interested in discussing details of preparing for [whatever] as things currently stand   I'm game for discussing both the sorts of things we might expect to go wrong (what we're preparing to survive) and details of how to prepare.  Personally, I'd like to discuss more details than usually occur in these sorts of discussions.  For example:

Power: I'd like to get a generator.  I'm also wondering about those backup power things like Bluetti (thinking the solar panels option might be good).  But, I'm pretty ignorant in this area - I don't know how "big" of a generator I'd need.  What I could realistically expect to run on the generator or not.  Ditto for how "big" a backup power thing.  Would I even need that?  When would one or the other be better?  Or are they redundant?  Technically, I could go for one of those Generac whole-house generators, but I'm not so sure that would be good for anything other than your typical short-term power-outage.

Food seems the least difficult for me, but experiences or recommendations of good brands would probably help all of us.

I'm currently most actively looking into water storage - like, lots of water.  At least 320 gallons.  The dang things (storage options) are expensive, but it's beginning to look like my money will be worthless before I run out of it, so why not spend some on something I'll need (should said money become useless)?

Clothing, toiletries, cleaning supplies, etc. all seem pretty straight forward.

I'm sure there are things I'm missing - like last night I realized it would be really smart to get a second pair of glasses and keep them somewhere safe, since I'm all but useless without my glasses.  A discussion of this sort of thing would be welcome, too.

As far as what to prepare for, it's looking more and more like the thing to worry about is economic collapse (where money becomes worthless, or there are significant shortages of stuff (making the money useless if not worthless), or the whole CBDC thing becomes a reality).  It seems like things one can use or trade are the best things to get in preparation for [whatever]...

Anywho, short question: is anyone else interested in discussing these things?  I'm kinda hoping the collective wisdom will help many or even all of us...

[estradling75]

For detailed prepping you have to answer a few questions.  What are you prepping for?  For example you cited economic collapse.  That is a great answer but you prepare for it differently than if you are prepping for a wildfire coming through and destroying your neighborhood.  Doing a 'shelter in place' gets you different answers then get a 'out of dodge'

 

Power:  For all types of generators there are a few things you need to consider,  Peak power and Continuous power.  All generators should have those numbers and the combined total of everything you want running at the same time has to be lower than what the generator can do. So this raises the question: what do you want to run?  If you want to run your whole house you need a big generator and massive fuel storage, which costs a lot. If you only need your cell phone charged you can get by on a little solar brick.  Another issue is fuel source. Generators need something to convert to electrical power, when that runs out then the generator does nothing.  Solar is great in that the sun doesn't run out, but it is off half the day.  Gas can run through the night but you need to either store enough or be able to refuel.  We can totally go into more power details but what are you looking to power and for how long?

 

Food:  What can trip people up on food is preparing the food.  How do you change that bucket of wheat into something you can eat in an emergency?  Also do not forget food for your pets.

 

Water:  This one is hard because we need a lot of it and it is heavy and takes up a lot of space.  Odds are you are not going to be able to store enough water except for the shortest of duration emergencies.  So in addition to storage you need to be able to collect, filter and sanitize water from other sources.

 

For trade goods the standard answer is feed the addiction/need.  Cigarettes when smoking was more of a thing, coffee, alcohol.  Being in Utah might be less effective than elsewhere, and as a member you might understandably have some issue with having those items, and that is fair.  So maybe you go the sugar route instead. 

 

Anyways just some thoughts

[zil2]

21 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

For detailed prepping you have to answer a few questions.  What are you prepping for?  For example you cited economic collapse.  That is a great answer but you prepare for it differently than if you are prepping for a wildfire coming through and destroying your neighborhood.  Doing a 'shelter in place' gets you different answers then get a 'out of dodge'

I wasn't thinking we only discuss my situation, but rather, all our various ideas.  But my thought is that if I'm prepared for an economic collapse - which would likely result in long term (several months, possibly years) reliance on my own resources, and possibly bartering with others nearby (eventually) - I would also be prepared for anything that didn't drive me out of my home, which seems far less likely.  And honestly, I really don't have anywhere better to go, so the only way I'm leaving home is if my home is destroyed.

26 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

massive fuel storage

Yeah, this seems pretty impossible in the suburbs.  Even without ordinances, storing it in the basement seems downright foolish.  And the shed (exposed to temperature fluctuations) doesn't seem much better.  So fuel storage would have to be short term, probably.  But this adds an item to my to-do list: research fuel stability and safe storage requirements.  So thank you for that.   (I know I need to figure out how much electricity my various appliances use.  I've already listed them out by priority.)

29 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Generators need something to convert to electrical power, when that runs out then the generator does nothing.  Solar is great in that the sun doesn't run out, but it is off half the day.  Gas can run through the night but you need to either store enough or be able to refuel.  We can totally go into more power details but what are you looking to power and for how long?

I figured I'd get one of those 3-fuel generators (natural gas, gasoline, propane).  As for "how long" - as long as possible.   If the economy collapses, will utilities continue to run?  How quickly might they come back?  I've also considered looking into a wood-burning stove and filling the shed with firewood.  This would probably be more expensive than a generator, and I would do it in addition, but I'm thinking something to heat one room in winter and possibly to cook some stuff on - this is a new idea and I need to research.

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

Solar is great in that the sun doesn't run out

The solar was for the Bluetti (or similar) power storage thing, to charge it back up.  I've seen some guys on YouTube (a blacksmith and a wood turner) testing these out to see if they'll power their lathe and other power tools, and how long it takes the solar panels to charge them).  Honestly, it looks pretty impressive.  Not for long-term power supply, but good for mobile and shorter-term use.  I'm thinking of it more as an "in addition to" - a variety of options to give the most flexibility and best possible coverage...

Was sort of hoping someone here had experience with these and could say, "here's what's working for me".

33 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

How do you change that bucket of wheat into something you can eat in an emergency? 

Yes, this is one of my recurring thoughts.  I've pondered a manual wheat grinder.  (Not as exciting as YouTube, but perhaps more wholesome.... )

34 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Also do not forget food for your pets.

Yes!  New addition to my list - and a little difficult since that food will change once Klaw becomes an adult - and the quantity he eats is increasing monthly...

35 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Water:  This one is hard because we need a lot of it and it is heavy and takes up a lot of space.  Odds are you are not going to be able to store enough water except for the shortest of duration emergencies.  So in addition to storage you need to be able to collect, filter and sanitize water from other sources.

I have an unfinished basement that's just begging for water storage tanks.  I've already selected some, but need to look into how I get them home.  I also have one of those bags made of food-safe plastic that you put in your tub and fill with as much water as your tub will hold.  They're more for situations where you know you're going to have a need, not for long-term storage.  But I'll be adding the filtration and sanitization options to my list.

Thank you for adding to my list of things to do.   I'll start some research.  If anyone wants to recommend specific products, I'm all ears.

[NeuroTypical]

I like how the word "against" used to be used in this topic.   "I've laid up stores against the season" and all that.  You prepare, so you will have to resources that will come in handy if you need them, to use against the forces of hunger and physical danger and whatnot.  Likely stuff that might happen to me in my neck of the woods, for me to lay up stores against them:

- Loss of income due to illness or economy or losing job or something.  (I was once out of work for a full year.)
- Short-term loss of power/water/heat due to the various storms that occur frequently in south-central Colorado.  (The place we live has given us 6-7 years with a 1-3 day disruption, usually due to blizzards and bomb cyclones.)
- Civil unrest similar to or worse than the BLM violence in 2020-21, which left city police overwhelmed, county buildings destroyed, and overturned cars set on fire in the road.  (We tend to forget this stuff quickly, not wanting to remember how widespread or close to home it got.)
- Need to evacuate due to forest fire or chemical spill or something.  (We had to abandon all our preps and evacuate a few years back.)

So, yeah, I store and rotate some cans of gasoline.  We have backup sources of heat, one electric (if the natural gas goes), and a bunch of indoor propane heaters if gas and electric go.  We stay the holy crap out of debt at all costs, and we have an emergency fund.  I rotate what I eat, so I don't need to disrupt my diet much if I can't buy food for a bit.  We have staples for longer-term needs (rice, beans, pasta, canned goods).  We have bug-out bags, in case we need to evacuate in a hurry.  We have emergency car kits, in case we're stranded somewhere.  We have guns and some ammo, and I periodically train and keep my skills up.

I would love to have an extra $100k.  I'd buy solar, get the latest in battery tech, install a propane tank, and have a good powerful generator with it's own fuel storage.

I would love to have an extra $1m and not need to commute to work. I'd buy 50 secluded acres butting up against a national forest with it's own water source, probably in West Virginia.  I'd have an off-the-grid set up, re-learn to hunt and garden.  Go to town once a month for a chicken sandwich.  Spend all my time inventorying and rotating my supplies, and replacing the batteries on my blink cameras.  

 

Game changer for the 2020's: Starlink means I can have excellent internet anywhere, as long as I can plug my portable dish into power.   It would take a friggin EMP hit or meteor strike to take away my internet now.   

 

Folks like to think in terms of zombie apocalypse or foreign invasion or global economic collapse or a total loss of the power grid or fall of the constitution.  Stuff that leaves death and destruction with no more civilization to come and save us.  And yes indeed stuff like that happens to humans, has happened in the past, and will happen in the future.   Looking at my short list of things I actually have personally experienced, I realize much of the mindset/skills/resilience used there, applies to the big ones too.

- Family is important.  Strong family ties, strong extended family ties, is preparadness.

- Health and strength is important.  For example, if all our cars stop working due to an EMP pulse, people will die the first day just because they're physically incapable of walking to safety without giving themselves heart attacks and dying of heat stroke b/c there's no air conditioning.

- Faith and values are important.  People give up without something to live for.

- The church is important.  There is power and safety in the priesthood and in the community of saints. 

 

If you're going to prep, the best way to do it is to start here.  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/04007_eng.pdf

Edited July 24, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[estradling75]

58 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Yeah, this seems pretty impossible in the suburbs.  Even without ordinances, storing it in the basement seems downright foolish.  And the shed (exposed to temperature fluctuations) doesn't seem much better.  So fuel storage would have to be short term, probably.  But this adds an item to my to-do list: research fuel stability and safe storage requirements.  So thank you for that.   (I know I need to figure out how much electricity my various appliances use.  I've already listed them out by priority.)

I figured I'd get one of those 3-fuel generators (natural gas, gasoline, propane).  As for "how long" - as long as possible.   If the economy collapses, will utilities continue to run?  How quickly might they come back?  I've also considered looking into a wood-burning stove and filling the shed with firewood.  This would probably be more expensive than a generator, and I would do it in addition, but I'm thinking something to heat one room in winter and possibly to cook some stuff on - this is a new idea and I need to research.

The solar was for the Bluetti (or similar) power storage thing, to charge it back up.  I've seen some guys on YouTube (a blacksmith and a wood turner) testing these out to see if they'll power their lathe and other power tools, and how long it takes the solar panels to charge them).  Honestly, it looks pretty impressive.  Not for long-term power supply, but good for mobile and shorter-term use.  I'm thinking of it more as an "in addition to" - a variety of options to give the most flexibility and best possible coverage...

I am in the process of installing Solar Panels on my house.  I looked in to having batteries (Think Tesla Powerwall) but I couldn't afford them yet.  But if you can afford it that might be best stay at home power generation option.  But it is pricey.

I have a Bluetti EB3A.  Its the smallest one, I use it for Camping and Radio events.  I wouldn't expect it to power a refrigerator or powertools (at least not very long) but for mobile device charging and smaller things it does just fine.  With a solar panel attached I have no issue with having power all day long during camping or event, if I need to be awake and using things during the night it can run out, but I try to sleep during the night.

[Vort]

15 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

I am in the process of installing Solar Panels on my house.  I looked in to having batteries (Think Tesla Powerwall) but I couldn't afford them yet.  But if you can afford it that might be best stay at home power generation option.  But it is pricey.

I have a Bluetti EB3A.  Its the smallest one, I use it for Camping and Radio events.  I wouldn't expect it to power a refrigerator or powertools (at least not very long) but for mobile device charging and smaller things it does just fine.  With a solar panel attached I have no issue with having power all day long during camping or event, if I need to be awake and using things during the night it can run out, but I try to sleep during the night.

Have you looked into flow batteries, such as vanadium or zinc-based flow batteries? Not much of a portable solution, but it seems ideal for home power storage.

[zil2]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I like how the word "against" used to be used in this topic.

Thank you, for your list.  Much of that is done for me.  If I could rely on the money in my various accounts still being viable for the next ten years, and supplies being purchasable, then I would be set (for that length of time).  But I'm becoming concerned that in fewer years, our money will cease to be viable.  Now, I'm not acting hastily.  I'm learning and talking to people and increasing my knowledge so that I can take my concerns and plans to the Lord for further guidance.  There are a few areas where I know I already need to increase my reserves to what the Church has already counseled: more food, more water.  Alternative winter heating is also a concern, just in case.  But I'm wondering about going further than that.

This:

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I would love to have an extra $100k.  I'd buy solar, get the latest in battery tech, install a propane tank, and have a good powerful generator with it's own fuel storage.

...sounds like a fabulous idea.  Energy independence seriously appeals.  I kinda doubt I could do it here in Salt Lake County for $100k.  And it may well be over the top - I don't know, which is why I want to talk to other people, and I don't have many IRL people to talk to, hence you guys.  (I'm assuming none of you are out to rip me off, so it's fairly safe to listen to your advice.)  Even if I could do something like this, I'd have to go get a real job after paying for it...

@estradling75's Tesla Powerwall also sounds appealing, though yeah, awfully expensive - probably ~4 years of money (I think of my money in terms of "buy this and I have n fewer years or months in the bank").

I shall ponder and do some reading.  (Part of the difficulty for me is that this is one area of technology where I'm completely ignorant and all too many companies see a woman alone and think, "let's take all her money cuz she won't know whether we're lying.")

Thus, moving forward with water storage and more food storage, learning about energy/power and other things.

Thank you, everyone, for your contributions so far.  I'm adding to my lists.

[mordorbund]

4 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Also do not forget food from your pets.

Fixed that for you

[zil2]

8 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Fixed that for you

Klaw will be eating me before I eat him.  (ETA: You might say that I'm his emergency plan.)

Edited July 24, 2023 by zil2

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

4 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Also do not forget food from your pets.

Fixed that for you

I love animals.

[estradling75]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

Have you looked into flow batteries, such as vanadium or zinc-based flow batteries? Not much of a portable solution, but it seems ideal for home power storage.

I didn't look into battery chemistry... I was looking at vendor offerings...  I am not smart/brave enough to try to do DYI type of Solar install.

On the subject of water big tanks are more cost effective but they have a hard time being moved/installed...  I saw a product that is a water brick that stack kind of like Lego.  Its a couple of gallons per brick.  This seems like a possible answer for making your water a bit more manageable.  Grab a brick or two and you have your emergency water for the day.  Otherwise you have to fill your water up from the big container, into another container and then move it where you need it.

Also don't by the hype that water has a shelf life.  Water doesn't go 'bad'  It can get contaminated by stuff getting into it, but that is what filtering is for.  Water that is clean but has been sitting for awhile might taste a little off, that because the dissolved oxygen is in water normally has escaped.  Shake the water up some (or run it thorough a filter) and it regains it.

[Vort]

9 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

On the subject of water big tanks are more cost effective but they have a hard time being moved/installed...  I saw a product that is a water brick that stack kind of like Lego.  Its a couple of gallons per brick.  This seems like a possible answer for making your water a bit more manageable.  Grab a brick or two and you have your emergency water for the day

That sounds like a good, practical solution for people with money to burn. I have found that two-liter bottles are cheap (free) and easily used to store water. It's a bit of work up front to clean the bottles and fill them two liters at a time with water, but as you say, water doesn't have a shelf life, so if you're careful with your bottling and keep the bottles in a dark place, you should have water easily available. If you're not so careful, you might have interesting biology experiments in closed ecosystems, so it's still not a total loss.

[NeuroTypical]

Back in the day, we bought a bunch of 55-gal drums that were used once to transport coke syrup.  They have worked fine for over 20 years.  Every 2-3 years I add a couple drops of bleach.  Somewhere nearby is the hand pump I also bought back in the day.

The only downside: Every time we moved, we ended up with one fewer than we started with.  Uhauls haul what Uhauls haul, and nothing more. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Ironhold]

7 hours ago, estradling75 said:

For trade goods the standard answer is feed the addiction/need.  Cigarettes when smoking was more of a thing, coffee, alcohol.  Being in Utah might be less effective than elsewhere, and as a member you might understandably have some issue with having those items, and that is fair.  So maybe you go the sugar route instead. 

 

Anyways just some thoughts

The standard United States military ration, the MRE, includes a single-serve packet of coffee and a packet of non-dairy creamer within each ration. 

It used to be that the packet was Taster's Choice, a national brand with a good reputation. But for a while, they used the generic "Coffee, Instant, Type 2" that didn't exactly go over well. Some rations still use this generic coffee, but others have switched to an off-brand known as Bill's Brew. This has also gotten mixed results, but it's better than the generic stuff.

Trying to remember if this is one of the rations that had it or one of the generic "mocha" drink mix pouches: 

(edit - rewatching the video now, and it's a brand called Genial. I'd forgotten that this was one of the varieties offered.)

Many other military rations from around the world include coffee or tea as one of the components, with Lipton and Ty-Phoo being the most common brands of tea that I have seen. 

Members of the church who are in the armed forces have long since realized the value that these coffee and tea packets have as currency, and can do brisk business off of them. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Ironhold

[zil2]

2 hours ago, Vort said:

I love animals.

The eland is quite tasty.  Like very good beef.

[Ironhold]

Here's a ration from 2004 that had what was likely some of the last Taster's Choice coffee in service. It also had a full-sized bag of M&Ms, as at one point the US military had a contract with M&M Mars to provide them with chocolate products as a morale-builder. 

 

[Carborendum]

4 hours ago, Vort said:

I love animals.

I'm sure you know just how good they really are.

[Phoenix_person]

55 minutes ago, Ironhold said:

at one point the US military had a contract with M&M Mars to provide them with chocolate products as a morale-builder. 

 

I'd be lying if I said it didn't work. 

[askandanswer]

I recommend figuring out what the rich are likely to want but not have access to, and then stock up on that. I suspect that there will be many in the first few months of an economic collapse who will be willing to trade anything to get their hands on more chocolate, perfume, or similar products. I suspect 100 grams of chocolate will trade for far more than 100 grams of water. You don't need to have everything. You just need to have what is wanted by those who want it. 

[Vort]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm sure you know just how good they really are.

They're a part of me.

[zil2]

7 hours ago, Vort said:

They're a part of me.

Groan.

[NeuroTypical]

From what you folks are telling me, this needs to be an integral part of any Mormon’s food storage:
 

Edited July 25, 2023 by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

13 hours ago, Vort said:

They're a part of me.

You simply wouldn't be you without them.  You could say you owe your life to animals.  Without them you wouldn't be here today.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Carborendum

[Ironhold]

If you have a Wal-Mart nearby, check it out. 

Mine just got a large quantity of Emerson brand electronic products that include pocket AM/FM transistor radios (handy for obtaining news & alerts without draining your devices) and weather radios, all at a discount compared to the name-brand equivalents.