New POTUS this year

[prisonchaplain]

I have a fantasy that involves Trump, Biden and CONTROL-ALT-DELETE. Then I wake up to a Dystopian world in which these two are the main candidates for POTUS. I used to call myself a conservative. Now I am moderately so. I really haven't changed, but the world and the Republicans have. For example, I believe that the US should support Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. We should counter Chinese ambitions. I used to be considered a bit of a hawk and an anti-communist. Now, Trump and Tucker label me a globalist and say that folks like me (well, Ben Shapiro to be honest) don't love America. Of course, the alternative is Biden and Harris. So, I'm at a loss. Any counsel?

[NeuroTypical]

4 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Any counsel?

I used to think of myself as a constitutional conservative too.  I still do, even though folks' opinions about me change.

My counsel is to grab on to the 2nd great commandment with all your heart and strength, and do whatever politics it compels you to do, no matter what people think of you.

[LDSGator]

5 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I have a fantasy that involves Trump, Biden and CONTROL-ALT-DELETE. Then I wake up to a Dystopian world in which these two are the main candidates for POTUS. I used to call myself a conservative. Now I am moderately so. I really haven't changed, but the world and the Republicans have. For example, I believe that the US should support Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. We should counter Chinese ambitions. I used to be considered a bit of a hawk and an anti-communist. Now, Trump and Tucker label me a globalist and say that folks like me (well, Ben Shapiro to be honest) don't love America. Of course, the alternative is Biden and Harris. So, I'm at a loss. Any counsel?

Welcome to my world. I always viewed myself as a Goldwater conservative but now I’m viewed as a “moderate” or “democrat”  because, like you, I feel we should support the Ukraine, Israel, etc. And I don’t dig conspiracies or worship god-emperor Trump.   

Enjoy the ride @prisonchaplain. Develop a thick skin, expect to encounter a TON of hate from Trumpers and enjoy the show.

Also, it helps out tremendously to have friends who you can have in depth conversations with. Sadly, a lot of “people you see at church friendships” are a mile wide and inch deep. One disagreement and boom-you never hear from them again

As a pastor people depend on you. You need someone to rely on too.  Go out and form friendships with people who aren’t like that.  

Edited February 28 by LDSGator

[ZealoulyStriving]

7 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I have a fantasy that involves Trump, Biden and CONTROL-ALT-DELETE. Then I wake up to a Dystopian world in which these two are the main candidates for POTUS. I used to call myself a conservative. Now I am moderately so. I really haven't changed, but the world and the Republicans have. For example, I believe that the US should support Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. We should counter Chinese ambitions. I used to be considered a bit of a hawk and an anti-communist. Now, Trump and Tucker label me a globalist and say that folks like me (well, Ben Shapiro to be honest) don't love America. Of course, the alternative is Biden and Harris. So, I'm at a loss. Any counsel?

I hear you. I've come to the conclusion that I don't care if people say I'm wasting my vote - I'm going to support whoever best reflects my values. Voting for the Red guy or Blue guy would be a waste anyway IMHO.

Some time back I came across the Catholic social teaching of distributism, which l believe aligns well with scriptural teachings. I've found a small party made up of mostly Catholics that best represents my nuanced views on politics. I will be supporting their candidates.

[LDSGator]

11 minutes ago, ZealoulyStriving said:

I've found a small party made up of mostly Catholics that best represents my nuanced views on politics. I will be supporting their candidates.

The Solidarity Party, right?

[ZealoulyStriving]

44 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The Solidarity Party, right?

Yes! 👍

[LDSGator]

8 minutes ago, ZealoulyStriving said:

Yes! 👍

I have a friend who supports that party. 

[prisonchaplain]

3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

As a pastor people depend on you. You need someone to rely on too.  Go out and form friendships with people who aren’t like that.  

It helps that my congregation can't vote. Also, I cut my teeth on federal workers not being allowed to associate politics with work (even though I'm with the state now). Plus this year my current thought is a curmudgeonly pox on both candidates. 

[prisonchaplain]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

The Solidarity Party, right?

I was really hoping NO LABELS would put someone up. Right now, my hope is Haley--buy even she is beyond a long shot. Still, it's great to know that sanity like the ASP exists. 

[Just_A_Guy]

17 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I have a fantasy that involves Trump, Biden and CONTROL-ALT-DELETE. Then I wake up to a Dystopian world in which these two are the main candidates for POTUS. I used to call myself a conservative. Now I am moderately so. I really haven't changed, but the world and the Republicans have. For example, I believe that the US should support Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. We should counter Chinese ambitions. I used to be considered a bit of a hawk and an anti-communist. Now, Trump and Tucker label me a globalist and say that folks like me (well, Ben Shapiro to be honest) don't love America. Of course, the alternative is Biden and Harris. So, I'm at a loss. Any counsel?

Write In Russ.  

That’s what I’ll be doing in November.  

[zil2]

9 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

Plus this year my current thought is a curmudgeonly pox on both candidates. 

Hey, you can always hope that brother Rush's interpretation of Ezra's eagle is mostly correct, and Biden's presidency is cut short for some reason and the big giant head wakes up and eats Harris and Trump.  Of course, I'm not so sure being ruled by the big giant head and his two little-head cronies will be better, but, ya know, it would be different....

[LDSGator]

10 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I was really hoping NO LABELS would put someone up. Right now, my hope is Haley--buy even she is beyond a long shot. Still, it's great to know that sanity like the ASP exists. 

Haley is doomed. 

Trump is in serious trouble too. You have people like us who usually vote republican looking at other options. Combine that with suburban swing voters who are repulsed by his legal issues and he’s got his work cut out for him. He could still win of course, but if loses again it’s incredibly obvious as to why. 

[Just_A_Guy]

58 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Haley is doomed. 

Trump is in serious trouble too. You have people like us who usually vote republican looking at other options. Combine that with suburban swing voters who are repulsed by his legal issues and he’s got his work cut out for him. He could still win of course, but if loses again it’s incredibly obvious as to why. 

Never fear.  I was told back in 2016 that Trump would do just fine without my fuddy-duddy preening about such irrelevant minutiae as “right and wrong” and “honesty” and “civic virtue” and “values” and “having a president who is not a recidivist credibly-accused thief and rapist”.

They didn’t want my support.

They didn’t need my support.

They did fine in 2016, they did fine in 2020, they’ll do fine in 2024.

They’re fine.

Everything’s fine.

Fine!

Edited February 28 by Just_A_Guy

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Never fear.  I was told back in 2016 that Trump would do just fine without my fuddy-duddy preening about such irrelevant minutiae as “right and wrong” and “honesty” and “civic virtue” and “values” and “having a president who is not a recidivist credibly-accused thief and rapist”.

They didn’t want my support.

They didn’t need my support.

They did fine in 2016, they did fine in 2020, they’ll do fine in 2024.

They’re fine.

Everything’s fine.

Fine!

It’s astounding when you think about it. You and I are both history buffs @Just_A_Guy. (You because you lived through most events. French Revolution, Peasant Revolt of 1381). For arguably the first time in American politics a political campaign openly wants to destroy bridges instead of building them. Wow. 

[zil2]

58 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

...

They did fine in 2016, they did fine in 2020, they’ll do fine in 2024.

They’re fine.

Everything’s fine.

Fine!

So, all is well?

[prisonchaplain]

i heard a podcast today of a fellow saying Trump is actually a big Ukraine supporter who said that Putin never should have been allowed to invade Ukraine. The point of the podcaster was to urge Republicans to support Ukraine now so that Trump would have a better hand when Trump was elected.

I'm not sure how much of that is true, but I'll look into it. Either way, I hope the Republicans take his counsel.

[JohnsonJones]

On 2/27/2024 at 1:20 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I have a fantasy that involves Trump, Biden and CONTROL-ALT-DELETE. Then I wake up to a Dystopian world in which these two are the main candidates for POTUS. I used to call myself a conservative. Now I am moderately so. I really haven't changed, but the world and the Republicans have. For example, I believe that the US should support Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. We should counter Chinese ambitions. I used to be considered a bit of a hawk and an anti-communist. Now, Trump and Tucker label me a globalist and say that folks like me (well, Ben Shapiro to be honest) don't love America. Of course, the alternative is Biden and Harris. So, I'm at a loss. Any counsel?

Pray and choose the best one according to your conscience.

To me, Trump is apologetically a liar, thief and adulterer.  If nothing else, Joe Biden goes to church, has not committed adultery as far as we know, and loves his family.

That's not to say Joe Biden is a great or perfect person, he's not.  There are many that are much more moral and righteous than he is, but of the two, he seems to me to be the more righteous individual.

It has nothing to do with the policies in this, just pointing out that this is one factor behind my decision of who I'll probably vote for.

The other is that there are comments from Trump that sound scarily like what Hitler said before he seized power and some of the things Trump has inferred sound scarily as if he would do away with democracy and other items if he could.  Whenever he says something he points a finger, but three fingers are pointing back at him and normally that's because what he is accusing others of is what he WANTS to do or has tried to do (In my opinion).

On 2/28/2024 at 11:01 AM, prisonchaplain said:

i heard a podcast today of a fellow saying Trump is actually a big Ukraine supporter who said that Putin never should have been allowed to invade Ukraine. The point of the podcaster was to urge Republicans to support Ukraine now so that Trump would have a better hand when Trump was elected.

I'm not sure how much of that is true, but I'll look into it. Either way, I hope the Republicans take his counsel.

From what I've read and seen, that's untrue.

An example of what Trump really feels about Ukraine probably can be seen from the first attempt to Impeach him (individuals call it an impeachment, but only the house called the impeachment, but as he was not convicted by the Senate and acquitted, he wasn't really impeached IMO). 

He attempted to withhold aid from the Ukraine for his own personal gain (a futile attempt as the President doesn't hold the purse strings in the way he was trying, Congress does, so it really doesn't make sense that he could be charged under that idea as he didn't have the power to do so in the first place...once again...IMO).

I think Ukraine would be under Russian control today if Trump had been President at the time of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.  His initial response to the Russian invasion before his people got him to backtrack says it all to me...

That's my personal opinion.  Trump didn't seem to show much spine when he was talking with Putin and Putin seemed to almost always have the upper hand with Trump...almost as if Putin had something over Trump.

 

That said...my vote will be for Biden if it is between those two most likely...BUT for many who vote that way I expect it's not going to be so much that they are voting for Biden or support him, but that the are voting against  Trump.

I honestly think that if the Republicans were being honest with themselves, they'd realize Nikki Haley has a much better chance of winning against Biden than Trump simply for that factor alone.  Many will swallow their dislike of democrats just to vote against Trump, but that sentiment isn't there if Haley was running. 

 

 

[prisonchaplain]

I hated voting for Trump in 2016 and 2020. For reasons outlined by @JohnsonJonesI might not be able to do it this time. If I vote for Biden it'll be my first Democrat vote for President since I began voting (previous millenium). God is good. This election is tough.

[LDSGator]

I’m seeing people tell us to vote for Trump because, correctly, a staying home or going third party is voting for Biden.

However, most of these people stayed home or voted third party in 08 and 12. Now they are trying to act like the pragmatic realists lecturing their idealistic friends. It’s astounding how politics changes people.  

[prisonchaplain]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I’m seeing people tell us to vote for Trump because, correctly, a staying home or going third party is voting for Biden.

However, most of these people stayed home or voted third party in 08 and 12. Now they are trying to act like the pragmatic realists lecturing their idealistic friends. It’s astounding how politics changes people.  

It's bad enough voting for the least of two evils, this year it's the least scary. 🤷‍♀️

[LDSGator]

18 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

It's bad enough voting for the least of two evils, this year it's the least scary. 🤷‍♀️

Agree. In politics perfect really is the worst enemy of the good, but 2024 is the most depressing choice in decades. 

[Grunt]

8 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

It's bad enough voting for the least of two evils, this year it's the least scary. 🤷‍♀️

Scary how?  Look at the last 4 years, then the 4 years before that.   It's not that scary.  They just want you to be scared.

Edited March 3 by Grunt

[prisonchaplain]

18 hours ago, Grunt said:

Scary how?  Look at the last 4 years, then the 4 years before that.   It's not that scary.  They just want you to be scared.

If we were looking at a repeat of Trump's first four years, this would be easy. A super majority SCOTUS. Excellent. The problem is that we have our judges and Trump presents as an isolationist. Further, he's driven away some of his most redeeming supporters (Pence and Barr--remember that BOP was under the DOJ during Barr's tenure--he was a solid leader). I support Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan--I'm not sure Trump will. Biden's weak--but at least he's on board. Harris? All bets are off with her. BUT Trump is an isolationist and a protectionist. He also seems to feed the worst elements--both his supporters and his enemies. Those 80% of us in between just watch in horror.

Edited March 3 by prisonchaplain

[LDSGator]

3 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

He also seems to feed the worst elements--both his supporters and his enemies.

It’s part of his plan. He knows his followers thrive on hate and anger. He knows his enemies thrive on hate on anger. So why not use both of them for his own political gains? 
 

Trump is many things but he isn’t stupid. He knows how to manipulate people. 

Edited March 3 by LDSGator

[laronius]

Say what you will about Trump, he does indeed have many distasteful qualities. But at the end of the day the left promotes policies that are far more destructive of the family, society and the Constitution. Some of which are flat out EVIL. I personally cannot justify voting for that.

There are no good options right now (at least not viable ones) so we just have to decide, policy wise, what matters most. If we can't have it all, what is at the top of the list? For me there are a few deal maker/breakers, including:

They must support religious freedoms.

They must not support elective abortions.

They must be supportive of parent's rights in the education of their children.

They must be supportive of policies that strengthen and promote the nuclear family.

I'm sure there are others but these immediately come to mind. There are also many that aren't deal breakers but I still really really want.

But in each of these instances Trump is far more likely than Biden (or those who pull his strings) to support these types of policies. I didn't vote for Trump the first time because of the kind of person he is but I have to admit that he acted more Conservative than any other president since Reagan and actually fulfilled some campaign promises that others only promised.